MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

Discussion in 'Marvel Films' started by pr0xyt0xin, Sep 12, 2012.

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  1. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    There's never going to be room in Avengers to give a character a full backstory. They're always going to need to be cut, and the person who we have no investment in is always the best option to cut, right? If you give them a supporting cast part in a solo film (or two) you can expand on them with relatively little screen time in Avengers, you get the full character with all the gravitas, cool dialogue moments and emotional climactic payoff, without needing to spend a team up film trying to develop them and inevitably failing.

    His role was fine, no doubt, but it could have been better, maybe even great if he had been Coulson's go-to guy during Thor. Now, it's possible that that was the plan and Renner just wasn't available, if indeed his scene was clearly shot after the rest. If so, too bad. Still, not something I'd want to see from my fave Avenger. I would not enjoy the movie as much, just like I didn't enjoy the X-Men films. "They films are about Wolverine" does nothing to my deeprooted expectation that superhero team movies should be about the whole team. Same with Avengers.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  2. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

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    In this case our investment is irrelevant. Whedon had to juggle four iconic superheroes and Black Widow, guy #6 is the one who would have gotten the short end, regardless of who it was.

    The Thor scene appears exactly as written (the script leaked online a few months before they started shooting)

    Team superhero movies should be about the team. Avengers was. Not every team member is on equal footing. There are leading characters and there are supporting characters. There are characters that drive a narrative forward and there are those who fill in the gaps, whether a film is about a singular character or a "team".

    Where the X-Men films got it wrong was with the leading characters - Cyclops and Storm have no relevance to the overall structure of the films. Take them out and they're the same movies. It's Wolverine and occasionally Jean and the Prof versus Magneto. Marvel's merry band of mutants wasn't much of a band.

    I don't think anyone's complaining that Iceman or Nightcrawler were supporting characters in those movies. At least, I hope not.
     
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  3. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    Complaining? No. Hoping for more from, absolutely. Even with Nightcrawler and Iceman helping drive the story in X2, even when they weren't part of the team.

    What I'm saying is that a short stick can go a long way with an established character. I think in a team film, all the team members should drive the plot forward, some more than others naturally, but the story should be constructed with the whole team in mind, otherwise it's doesn't represent the characters well.

    With Hawkeye, had he been established, he could have been given little tics and wavers that would have mattered and been recognized as part of his character. He could have had a soul during his being controlled. He could even have been given one or two minutes screen time extra that would have been productive instead of requiring ten or fifteen minutes for basic backstory to do anything with him.
     
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  4. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

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    I just didn't like their wooden characterization :o
     
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  5. R_Hythlodeus

    R_Hythlodeus Nerd Supreme

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    See, I think that angle worked well and was a nice nod to Clints comic origin. He started out as a semi-villain before joining the avengers in the comics and he did so in the movies. It also was a nod to Avengers #1 with the mind controlled hero who would become one of the founding members. The just substituted Hulk with Barton.
     
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  6. psylockolussus

    psylockolussus Well-Known Mutant

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    I really hope they make a solo-movie for a female superhero/comic-book character by the time they get to phase 3. I would love to see a movie for Spider-Woman, Ms. Marvel and She Hulk. I don't think there would be a solo movie for Black Widow because they already her introduced in MCU in 2010 and there's still no plans for a solo movie.
     
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  7. R_Hythlodeus

    R_Hythlodeus Nerd Supreme

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    Well out of those three, She-Hulk is the most interesting and the easiest to introduce
     
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  8. OriginalMiles

    OriginalMiles Well-Known Member

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    Are people still doing this?

    Phase 3
    2015
    Antman - Villain: Ultron

    2016
    Daredevil - Villain: Bullseye and/or the Hand (Introduce Elektra)
    Captain America: Hail Hydra - Villain: Red Skull and (possible) Baron Zemo

    2017
    Thor 3 - Villains: Surtur and Loki (Introduce Valkerie)
    Guardian's of the Galaxy 2 - Villain: Emperor Vulcan or Magus (Introduce Nova and Quasar)
    Antman 2 - Villain: Radioactive Man (Introduce Wasp)

    2018
    The Indestructable Hulk - Villain: Leader and Absorbing Man (Cameo from Loki) (Introduce Rick Jones)
    Luke Cage (or named "Cage") - Villain: Chemistro

    2019
    Iron Man 4 - Villain: Crimson Dynamo
    Avengers 3 - Villains: Masters of Evil (Set up through After Credit Scenes) (Team: Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, Hawkeye, Luke Cage, Antman, Wasp)

    Phase 4
    2020
    Daredevil 2 - Villain: Mister Fear
    Iron Fist - Villain: Nightshade (Cameo from Cage, tease Heroes for Hire)

    2021
    Cage 2 - Villain: Ricadonna (Tease Heroes for Hire)
    Vision - Villain: Ultron (Hank and Janet Pym cameos)
    Black Panther - Villain: Klaw

    2022

    Heroes for Hire
    GotG 3

    2023

    Thor 4
    Iron Man 5
    Captain America 4
    Hulk 3

    2024
    Avengers 4 - (No Iron Man or Thor)
     
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  9. spideymouse

    spideymouse Well-Known Member

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    Well, you are! So yes. :word:

    I don't have some grand vision for Phase 3 and beyond the way some of you guys do, though I do want to see Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Namor, and Ms. Marvel movies come to fruition at some point in the future, if only for the idea that Marvel should continue to be that ballsy and confident in incorporating their "more-difficult-to-adapt" characters into the MCU.

    Now that Ant-Man has been scheduled for November 2015, what I am thinking about specifically is what we'll see directly afterwards in 2016. It's exciting to think that at two (or more) points in time this year--one of which will most likely be in July at SDCC--we could be getting announcements for the two (or more) movies that Marvel will be releasing in 2016!

    I would love for the first 2016 movie to be a Hulk sequel (I like the idea of Mark Ruffalo is getting older. If they intend to use him effectively, a Hulk sequel should come sooner rather than later. Plus, there will have been TEN MCU movies between it and TIH! We need us some more Hulk!

    For the second movie, I would love to see a new franchise like Black Panther or Doctor Strange, but I could see them going with Cap 3. They would be pulling a Thor (3 movies in 3 consecutive years), but releasing Cap 3 in November 2016 would be about the same spacing as Thor, Avengers, and Thor: The Dark World. Plus, it is both an election year and an Olympics year... so go USA!
     
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  10. Zinc Saucier

    Zinc Saucier Essence of Pure Flavor

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    I don't believe for a second Szostak is playing Wasp. Still betting on Bethany Cabe myself.

    But I do think Whedon might add Wasp to Avengers 2 anyway. I mean he apparently really wanted her in the first film already. And now that Ant-Man is finally going into production and has a release date in the same year as Avengers even, he could easily introduce Wasp in A2 first only to have her character further developed in the Ant-Man film later. It could possibly even be a prequel to Avengers 2.
     
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  11. spideymouse

    spideymouse Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I don't think the casting for Janet Van Dyne would have happened so discreetly and so quickly.

    As for the idea of Ant-Man being a prequel, I suppose in terms of the narrative it might make sense, but I don't know how well it would go over with the audience. It's kind of like saying, "Hey look, here's the origin of a guy who didn't show up in either Avengers or Avengers 2, but his girlfriend did in Avengers 2, so we're setting the movie to take place before Avengers 2 and you know she won't die."

    I don't know about having prequels for the MCU at this point (Cap doesn't count because you didn't see him in the present-day until after). Every phase seems to be driving a narrative forward. To use a film to go backwards in that narrative and not really add to it seems kind of pointless.
     
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  12. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

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    Ms Marvel trumps She Hulk :o
     
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  13. spideymouse

    spideymouse Well-Known Member

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    The two new franchises we know of that Marvel is going to produce are Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man. I don't know if "ease of introducing a character" is the first thing they are questioning when it comes to which heroes they are going to adapt to film next. That said, D'Esposito did bring up that very thought with Black Panther, which is lame.
     
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  14. R_Hythlodeus

    R_Hythlodeus Nerd Supreme

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    in your dreams...
     
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  15. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

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    *Captain Marvel could whoop Jennifer easy!
     
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  16. Edguy

    Edguy Well-Known Member

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    She-Hulk is just.. weird..

    Good luck in introducing her to the GA..
     
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  17. xeno000

    xeno000 IRON MAN WAS RIGHT!

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    She-Hulk is perhaps the most ill-conceived character ever. The reason she was created -- to protect Marvel's copyright on The Hulk -- is why her origin is so completely ridiculous. It's like something out of a 1950s scifi movie, complete with a radioactive blood transfusion. And the name is almost too corny and cliched for words. Maybe Marvel can find a way to use She-Hulk without the hackneyed name and origin, but even then a 7-foot-tall green female version of the Hulk is going to be a very hard concept to sell. Harder than a talking raccoon and sentient tree, even.
     
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  18. CaptainCraig

    CaptainCraig Well-Known Member

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    ^^^
    Harder. The heck you say.

    She-Hulk isn't anymore silly a name than Batgirl or Supergirl.

    Her origin is simple and doesn't even require drastic F/X to be done and what audience member wouldn't know what a blood transfusion is. No wacky science to explain.

    You humor us all with the notion she'd be a tough sell.
     
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  19. Blackman

    Blackman C'mon Son

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    Im praying for Black Panther in Phase 3. I think he's perfect
     
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  20. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

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    I think Black Panther is perfect for P3.
     
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  21. Edguy

    Edguy Well-Known Member

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    For the record, I'm no big fan of Batgirl or Supergirl either. Any character created as a sidekick or a different version of a popular character is a "no thanks" in my book.

    That said, She-Hulk is even worse than most..


    With you guys on Black Panther though!
     
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  22. A Necessary Evil

    A Necessary Evil One. Bad. Day.

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    I want my freaking TIH sequel. :angry: :hulk:
     
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  23. kaijunexus

    kaijunexus Marvel Cinematic Universe

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    What I'd like to see

    2016 - The Incredible Hulk 2
    2016 - Doctor Strange

    2017 - Thor 3 (Thor vs. Surtur)
    2017 - Black Panther

    2018 - Inhumans
    2018 - Avengers 3


    What I think we will actually get

    2016 - Iron Man 4
    2016 - Thor 3

    2017 - Captain America 3 or The Incredible Hulk 2
    2017 - Black Panther or Doctor Strange

    2018 - Avengers 3
     
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  24. CaptainCraig

    CaptainCraig Well-Known Member

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    So true!!
     
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  25. xeno000

    xeno000 IRON MAN WAS RIGHT!

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    I'm surprised that no one has picked up on what Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje said about talking to Marvel about another project after Thor: TDW. AAA has long been on the record as interested in starring in a Black Panther picture. He first approached Marvel about the possibility back in 2009.

    Frankly, I think he would be perfect in every way for the Black Panther. The fact that he plays Kurse/Algrim shouldn't be a problem since his face will be unrecognizable under the prosthetics and costume he will be wearing.

    http://splashpage.mtv.com/2013/01/15/black-panther-adewale-akinnuoye-agbaje/
     
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