MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

[Lord]

Before Susan was revealed as the Ultimate Kang, Reed Richards was Basically Ultimate Kang, he even sent a bomb to Washington DC too. I think saying the entire line jumped the shark is too harsh, the line is definitelly very difficult to save now after Ultimatum, but there have still been some incredible stories told there, Hickman's run was very good for example, Bendis had just f****d over Reed Richards and make a man who only wanted to do the right thing into a psychopathic nerd, Hickman took over that idea and made him a badass and memorable villain.

 

[DrCosmic]

^Agreed. The line derailed, and it kinda killed the spirit of the universe for me and some others. With half the X-Men dead... who cares? It was a sad fulfillment of the 'stakes' problem that these kind of long running serials have. Nothing really matters... but when something mattered, people kinda died inside. It didn't hurt that Ultimatum was especially graphic instead of heartful. I would have much rather had those deaths happen at a rate of one per issue throughout the line, giving most characters a great send off. But hey, they went for shock value. -shrug-

I liked evil Reed, I too felt repulsed at the idea that they did it, but the stories... they were kinda awesome. Seeing the F4 breakdown the way it did was really touching. Things like that are what the Ultimate line was meant for, imho. To twist things so hard until it hurt the heart, not just the ego.

I disagree. Her personality is what makes her interesting. She's incredibly sarcastic and impulsive. Without Iron Man 4 in Phase 3, she can fill a void.

Also, even though much of her rogues gallery originated elsewhere, they're now HER villains. MODOK bounced around from Captain America to Iron Man and the Fantastic Four before becoming a Captain Marvel villain while the X-Men never seem to fight Deathbird or the Brood anymore.

As far as powers go, I can argue that she's OP but she isn't boring. Her powers would also be visually interesting to see considering her energy projection, flight, super strength and being nearly invincible. Now look at Black Panther and Punisher. Those two have no powers, only advanced weaponry, why would they make for a better film?

Well, advanced weaponry for one. Lots of unique supporting cast for two. Consistent classic critically and commercially successful stories for three. In BP's case, he actually does have some powers, to go with his advanced weaponry and, y'know... mythical country he rules. It's possible for BP to be redundant as well, if they handle it wrong, but BP at least has a unique setting and a robust supporting cast, and as a stealth-based agility character with super senses, he'd be unique amongst the rest of the Avengers, as usual.

Yes, we know she's just like Iron Man. The problem is, even if she fills some kind of void for Phase 3, she'll be redundant in the Avengers movie that'll have Iron Man there and in Phase 4 that'll have Iron Man there.

 

[KangConquers]

I want a Ms. Marvel film EVENTUALLY. However, I think Doctor Strange and Black Panther are bigger priority characters, with more fleshed out mythos.

Waiting till 2019 instead of 2017 for a Ms. Marvel film isn't going to kill anyone. The wait also allows Kelly Sue DeConnick to bang out a definitive "must have" story arc for a Ms. Marvel film.

 

[Dr. Evil]

the problem for Black Panther is how to portray Wakanda. The Hollywood portrayals of Africa haven't been great.

 

[Loki882]

No, it won't. However, I think that for a lot of people, it's not merely that they want a Carol movie and think that it could be good though that certainly is a big part of it. There's also the sheer annoyance and frustration at the reluctance of EITHER company to make a female-led superhero movie and they're constant lame excuses. It's the whole "so your making us wait even longer for a female led film" thing.

 

[Dr. Evil]

No, it won't. However, I think that for a lot of people, it's not merely that they want a Carol movie and think that it could be good though that certainly is a big part of it. There's also the sheer annoyance and frustration at the reluctance of EITHER company to make a female-led superhero movie and they're constant lame excuses. It's the whole "so your making us wait even longer for a female led film" thing.

Both companies have been reluctant to announce a female led superhero movie and a minority led superhero movie.

 

[Ant-manic]

the problem for Black Panther is how to portray Wakanda. The Hollywood portrayals of Africa haven't been great.

well here's their chance to portray part of Africa positively. it would look like any other industrialized nation. but it'd be surrounded by an artificial jungle.

 

[Loki882]

Both companies have been reluctant to announce a female led superhero movie and a minority led superhero movie.

Yeah, that was my point.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Yeah, that was my point.

It would be quite an embarrassment for both studios if Sony announced both Black Cat and Prowler as the next Spider-Man spin-offs after Venom and Sinister Six before Marvel announces Captain Marvel and Black Panther and DC announces Wonder Woman and Green Lantern John Stewart.

 

[KangConquers]

No, it won't. However, I think that for a lot of people, it's not merely that they want a Carol movie and think that it could be good though that certainly is a big part of it. There's also the sheer annoyance and frustration at the reluctance of EITHER company to make a female-led superhero movie and they're constant lame excuses. It's the whole "so your making us wait even longer for a female led film" thing.

I would honestly almost rather see a Black Widow film at this point than any other Marvel superheroine. Why not? They have the entire basis of the story eluded to in Avengers, a gigantic gallery of Russian supervillains due to the 1960s cold war paranoia,an A-list star in Scarlet Johansen, a superheroine who was in a $1.518 B grossing film, and the movie could be produced on a budget comparable to The Wolverine ($125 M.) Sounds like a grand slam to me.

 

[DrCosmic]

^It does. The only hitch is by being a spy thriller it would kinda cover Cap 2 territory. Which may be fine, providing Cap 3 isn't another spy thriller... but then again, that's what a lot of Cap's modern stories are. Cap kinda took BW's genre.

Shameless Plug: Marvel *could* do a two-fer and do Monica Rambeau. IJS. /Plug

I agree the major issue with Ms. Marvel is her story. Having a definitive story arc instead of Frankensteining something together would be a major boon.

I also agree the major issue with Black Panther is Wakanda. Fans of the character tend to want Wakanda to pre-exist as this superpower, but that doesn't ring true to real life, where we know for sure there's no such thing as Wakanda or any Wakanda-like entities. That balance is hard to strike, and I don't know of any satisfactory compromises.

Both characters also have the genre issue that BW now has. How do you point the Black Panther franchise in a direction that doesn't bump into Thor's territory of fantasy throne machinations, Iron Man's territory of gadgets out of control or Cap's territory of political military thriller? Capt. Marvel is even worse, you can't even use half of Mar-Vell's foes without taking directly away from the Guardians of the Galaxy.

Now, these things can be navigated, of course, but if there's only one spot between BP, Capt. Carol and Inhumans, while I'd vastly prefer BP, I think Inhumans would be easiest to navigate in terms of new themes (at least new to the MCU) and tying into the infinity gauntlet storyline (Blackbolt did have one, right?)

 

[Lord]

^Agreed. The line derailed, and it kinda killed the spirit of the universe for me and some others. With half the X-Men dead... who cares? It was a sad fulfillment of the 'stakes' problem that these kind of long running serials have. Nothing really matters... but when something mattered, people kinda died inside. It didn't hurt that Ultimatum was especially graphic instead of heartful. I would have much rather had those deaths happen at a rate of one per issue throughout the line, giving most characters a great send off. But hey, they went for shock value. -shrug-

I liked evil Reed, I too felt repulsed at the idea that they did it, but the stories... they were kinda awesome. Seeing the F4 breakdown the way it did was really touching. Things like that are what the Ultimate line was meant for, imho. To twist things so hard until it hurt the heart, not just the ego.

I have to agree, while i don't remember Ultimate Comics: Doom being very good, the stories that followed were just amazing. It's also very sad when we look at some of the past events where Reed even lost sleep because of Ben's situation and his relationship with Sue going to hell due to Thanos tampering with his mind, and then Sue starting to get romatic feeling for his best friend.

Which is why i really it how it doesn't matter how much Tony and Sue say they may be a little smarter than Reed or how much others try to diminish his accomplishments, every single character that know better of the cataclysm that is coming like Mysterio or Kang Sue allways say Reed Richards is their only hope to survive this.

Though one of the best aspects of his arc in Hickman's run is that he's somebody they knew and is proving in their faces what he can accomplish alone, so while i would like to see that arc happen on-screen (it's very cinematic in its nature in fact), it would probably need the villain, be it Immortus or Kang, to have had a previous contact with the MCU characters.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Speaking of Minority led superhero flicks, if this guy is cast, a solo flick is pretty much guaranteed...

http://nukethefridge.com/2013/12/27...hes-playing-green-lantern-superman-vs-batman/

And DC would have beaten Marvel to the punch.

 

[Lord]

If that rumor is true, and he gets a solo, Marvel will still most likelly have won, Justice League is probably going to be released in 2017, if Stewart gets a solo it will be after that, and since Avengers 3 is probably released in 2018, i'm quite sure Black Panther will get his spin-off in Phase III. DC is simply too late for that game, the advantage they do have is Wonder Woman, and they only make excuses for why they haven't done it, with the casting it also seems like they're not taking her character seriously either.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I do think a Black Panther movie will happen. But if it doesn't and Denzel is GL, then DC has won.

We'll see in Cap 2 and Age of Ultron. If there are more mentions of Vibranium (ie Falcon's wings, or Bucky's own shield or even Ultron) then BP is likely.

 

[Loki882]

Not really, that's simply some people jumping the gun and making pre-judgments based on virtually no evidence. I would have thought that they would have learned NOT to do that after all the other times that they're kneejerk pessimism has been proven wrong, but I guess not.

 

[Loki882]

I would honestly almost rather see a Black Widow film at this point than any other Marvel superheroine. Why not? They have the entire basis of the story eluded to in Avengers, a gigantic gallery of Russian supervillains due to the 1960s cold war paranoia,an A-list star in Scarlet Johansen, a superheroine who was in a $1.518 B grossing film, and the movie could be produced on a budget comparable to The Wolverine ($125 M.) Sounds like a grand slam to me.

Yeah, a Black Widow movie would seem like a great idea for all of the reasons that you've mentioned. Plus, the GA seems to like spy thrillers. I feel the main reason why a BW movie hasn't been made is simply that she's a woman. It's depressing, but I really think that's the reason. Heck, if they're worried about a female movie "not selling" then throw Hawkeye in there as her partner/sidekick.

 

[Lord]

Nope, that's the reason Wonder Woman wasn't made, the reason Black Widow hasn't been made is the same reason Hawkeye wasn't made, both characters are "smaller properties" and characters whose first appearance in the comics wasn't even in their oun titles, and only got that after many appearances in other books. They also served as fill-ins for Ant-Man and Wasp, characters who weren't in the Avengers because they didn't have their movie in Phase I

 

[Silvermoth]

Wolverines first appearance wasn't in his own title and he got two movies

 

[Lord]

I knew somebody would point out Wolverine, not only was he a much bigger character than Black Widow and Hawkeye, but he was also in 3 x-men films first. Marvel has a huge pantheon of characters that need to be given room.

 

[Spider-Vader]

I still think a Captain Marvel should be based on her origin tales from 'Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes', take the Avengers out of the story & you could have a really cool movie. Then you could wait until later in Phase IV to giver her a sequel, based on something that hasn't been written for the current series yet.

I think DC finally getting Wonder Woman in a movie (despite no her own one), has made Marvel want to get Captain Marvel out the door faster. A WW movie is sure to follow Man of Steel 2 (Batman vs Superman? Trinity? Justice League!!??) & I don't think Marvel wants to have DC finally beat them to the punch for something. Same goes for Black Panther if the Jon Stewart rumors are true.

 

[Loki882]

I kind of want a Captain Marvel movie to take place mostly in space. Maybe Carol gets her powers on Earth, and then she goes into space.

 

[Loki882]

Nope, that's the reason Wonder Woman wasn't made, the reason Black Widow hasn't been made is the same reason Hawkeye wasn't made, both characters are "smaller properties" and characters whose first appearance in the comics wasn't even in their oun titles, and only got that after many appearances in other books. They also served as fill-ins for Ant-Man and Wasp, characters who weren't in the Avengers because they didn't have their movie in Phase I

Marvel claims that they want to make a female-led superhero movie. They have a female superhero who's already been introduced and has wide public exposure. It would not be too expensive to make a movie about this character. The opportunity for Marvel to put it's money where it's mouth is in regards to this subject is staring it in the face. Also, you know what else is a "smaller property," Guardians of the Galaxy. They're even less well-known that Black Widow is and yet they're getting a movie so that argument doesn't hold much water.

 

[Red Mask]

It would be quite an embarrassment for both studios if Sony announced both Black Cat and Prowler as the next Spider-Man spin-offs after Venom and Sinister Six before Marvel announces Captain Marvel and Black Panther and DC announces Wonder Woman and Green Lantern John Stewart.

I'd love a Black Cat solo film to come out.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I kind of want a Captain Marvel movie to take place mostly in space. Maybe Carol gets her powers on Earth, and then she goes into space.

a Cpt. Marvel movie without focus entirerly on Mar-Vell is an idiotic idea. He IS Marvel, like Pym is Ant-Man and Stark is Iron Man