MCU X-Men

[psylockolussus]

Keep her out of these Marvel films.

 

[Iceman]

She could play Judge Dredd too, and say "I am the Law!"

Waiting for Psychokolossus to tell me that Judge Dredd is not a Marvel character.

She will also be the new Cap Marvel shortly after replacing "the Law" (Jude Law) as Marvell, and also showing up on Netflix replacing Matt Murdock at the new law firm Law & Nelson.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

So, I have no idea where you're getting this 'entire trilogy' with them as the focus. I've just been talking about a single O5 movie at most, moving on to the more iconic group for a second film. Of course you can cover everything in a prequel comic. You can put a whole movie in a prequel comic and just have the last thirty minutes in theaters, but people won't enjoy that last thirty minutes as much as if you show them the part that makes the last bit meaningful.

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of doing an Original Five movie? If you are just going to replace them with the second team in the sequel then you might as well just skip them, keep their adventures in the past, and start with the second team right off the bat.

Otherwise, you need to do a trilogy with the Original Five if you are trying to get the audience invested in their story. You can't just do a movie with them and then discard them in the next one. That is completely counter-intuitive to what you say you want to accomplish. I don't see how that would work.

I'm not saying your downsides aren't real. They can be mitigated, but there will be some people for whom Wolverine IS the X-Men and any focus away from him, much less his lack of inclusion, will be offensive. I've also pointed out the downsides to not doing an O5 film. Those don't go away either. Pluses and minuses either way.

But the downsides of the O5 can be mitigated as well. Race changes can be done, similar to how they were with MJ, and a large portion of the fanbase will not be alienated, just as small bit. Wolverine and Storm can be hinted at in the after credits, preventing them from being alienated. Retreading first class can be avoided by letting Xavier play the mentor role that you suggest for the O5 instead of the movie also being an origin for Xavier, this would allow the students to be developed instead of being expendable stock characters as in FC. Compelling characters keep it from feeling like a retread. Avoiding the XMA retread is simple because the only thing it would have in common is a budding Jean-Scott romance. Make it a love triangle with Angel... totally different spin. Also, again, the X-Men being the protagonist instead of Xavier, Magneto and Mystique changes everything.

How does that mitigate anything?

You race change one of them, fans will complain its not faithful enough. If you don't race change one of them, fans will complain you gave them an all white, dated lineup. If you make an O5 movie only to set up Storm and Wolverine, then what was the point of doing an Original Five movie? Fans will then complain about that, because they will feel their time got wasted.

Seems like a no win situation to me. Why bother... when you can just start with the second team.

Obviously any development on an X-Men movie is going to be scrutinized by fans and the internet. Not everyone can be pleased. But if the majority of the audience isn't going to be excited about a movie starring the Original Five, and doesn't need another origin story (because we've already had 18 years of X-Men movies), what business or storytelling sense would there be in committing the millions of dollars and the two year development cycle required to make a movie that is primarily about these elements?

You still haven't explained why the origin story of the X-Men is so compelling that we need to start there. What information could we learn from an entire movie devoted to giving that information that we couldn't get from a prequel comic, or a scene in a present day movie, or a future appearance of the O5?

 

[Kuwolski]

^^

I agree.

The goal is not to please everyone (because you can't) but the majority of the audience. Right off the bat you do that by NOT doing an O5 film. I just don't see how Marvel doesn't make it's first X-Men film an event on the scale of the Avengers.

 

[Iceman]

The O5 could make a good first act but a whole film of just them and no others would be going a bit slow.

 

[Dark Raven]

She will also be the new Cap Marvel shortly after replacing "the Law" (Jude Law) as Marvell, and also showing up on Netflix replacing Matt Murdock at the new law firm Law & Nelson.

She needs to be in several procedural or legal shows: Law and Order; L.A. Law; Martial Law; Burke's Law etc

 

[Iceman]

She needs to be in several procedural or legal shows: Law and Order; L.A. Law; Martial Law; Burke's Law etc

She can be Star-Lawd too

 

[Marvel united]

How about Alex Pettyfer for Scott (if they were to skip straight to prime X-Men):

Spoiler

And Logan Browning as Ororo/Storm:

Spoiler

 

[SimplyMarvelous]

I would like to see them start with the 05. Come at me, haters.

In all seriousness, I still feel that an 05 film could work, in spite of the "boringness" of the original comic. The characters and their legacy still have relevance in the comic.

Have the film start with Jean being introduced to the rest of the 05, similar to the first issue. But have them locating more future team members as a plot point. That way characters like Storm can get their due and become members of team by the film's end.

I just never liked the idea of starting the films off by adapting ANAD. Yes, the comic revived the franchise and made it diverse, but at the same time, you're ignoring how the X-Men started off in the first place. Otherwise, you're just telling the audience "Yes, there was a team before this one. But so what?". It's putting the cart before the horse.

I want the 05 to actually flourish and develop like they did in the comics. I want Scott and Jean's relationship to mean something. I want Beast to start off an otherwise normal-looking guy with large hands and feet, so that we feel for him when he turns himself blue in a sequel. I want Warren to actually be an X-Man, and have it matter when he becomes Archangel.

By just cherry picking all the fan favorites, it just feels like we'd wind up doing something similar to the Fox films, which wound up being full of inconsistencies. The 05 still have their legacy in the comics, and for the films to just throw that aside would just feel wrong. It was one thing when Fox did it back before superhero movies were huge, but for Marvel to do it now would just feel weird.

And again, it would not have to be X-Men 05: The Movie. I want them to introduce more mutants over the course of the film. Heck, the climax of the film could even be an adaptation of ANAD, where the new recruits save the 05. And from there, maybe split the mutants into the Blue and Gold teams or something. I just want the initial team at the start of the film to consist of Cyclops, Iceman, Angel, Beast and Marvel Girl.

 

[Kuwolski]

I'm certainly not against the O5 lineup, it just wouldn't be as dynamic. From a story point of view though it may work the best for the MCU. It all depends on how they decide to integrate the mutants. I think they'll likely introduce the concept and lay some groundwork for the Homo superior in other MCU films prior to the X-Men actually taking the screen. The fallout could be story beats in those films. Riots, discrimination, the public fear of the unknown, what the established MCU heroes think about it and how they should respond, etc.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

Spoiler

I would like to see them start with the 05. Come at me, haters.

In all seriousness, I still feel that an 05 film could work, in spite of the "boringness" of the original comic. The characters and their legacy still have relevance in the comic.

Have the film start with Jean being introduced to the rest of the 05, similar to the first issue. But have them locating more future team members as a plot point. That way characters like Storm can get their due and become members of team by the film's end.

I just never liked the idea of starting the films off by adapting ANAD. Yes, the comic revived the franchise and made it diverse, but at the same time, you're ignoring how the X-Men started off in the first place. Otherwise, you're just telling the audience "Yes, there was a team before this one. But so what?". It's putting the cart before the horse.

I want the 05 to actually flourish and develop like they did in the comics. I want Scott and Jean's relationship to mean something. I want Beast to start off an otherwise normal-looking guy with large hands and feet, so that we feel for him when he turns himself blue in a sequel. I want Warren to actually be an X-Man, and have it matter when he becomes Archangel.

By just cherry picking all the fan favorites, it just feels like we'd wind up doing something similar to the Fox films, which wound up being full of inconsistencies. The 05 still have their legacy in the comics, and for the films to just throw that aside would just feel wrong. It was one thing when Fox did it back before superhero movies were huge, but for Marvel to do it now would just feel weird.

And again, it would not have to be X-Men 05: The Movie. I want them to introduce more mutants over the course of the film. Heck, the climax of the film could even be an adaptation of ANAD, where the new recruits save the 05. And from there, maybe split the mutants into the Blue and Gold teams or something. I just want the initial team at the start of the film to consist of Cyclops, Iceman, Angel, Beast and Marvel Girl.

what if they worked their way backwards to reveal the O5... an you introduce the new recruits first and have the story being around that rescue mission of the O5... with them only shown at the very end

to show case other characters we've yet to see adapted in other films... but still pay homage to the O5 having been around first

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I would like to see them start with the 05. Come at me, haters.

In all seriousness, I still feel that an 05 film could work, in spite of the "boringness" of the original comic. The characters and their legacy still have relevance in the comic.

Have the film start with Jean being introduced to the rest of the 05, similar to the first issue. But have them locating more future team members as a plot point. That way characters like Storm can get their due and become members of team by the film's end.

I just never liked the idea of starting the films off by adapting ANAD. Yes, the comic revived the franchise and made it diverse, but at the same time, you're ignoring how the X-Men started off in the first place. Otherwise, you're just telling the audience "Yes, there was a team before this one. But so what?". It's putting the cart before the horse.

I want the 05 to actually flourish and develop like they did in the comics. I want Scott and Jean's relationship to mean something. I want Beast to start off an otherwise normal-looking guy with large hands and feet, so that we feel for him when he turns himself blue in a sequel. I want Warren to actually be an X-Man, and have it matter when he becomes Archangel.

By just cherry picking all the fan favorites, it just feels like we'd wind up doing something similar to the Fox films, which wound up being full of inconsistencies. The 05 still have their legacy in the comics, and for the films to just throw that aside would just feel wrong. It was one thing when Fox did it back before superhero movies were huge, but for Marvel to do it now would just feel weird.

And again, it would not have to be X-Men 05: The Movie. I want them to introduce more mutants over the course of the film. Heck, the climax of the film could even be an adaptation of ANAD, where the new recruits save the 05. And from there, maybe split the mutants into the Blue and Gold teams or something. I just want the initial team at the start of the film to consist of Cyclops, Iceman, Angel, Beast and Marvel Girl.

The problem with your pitch is that its too much for one film.

I don't see the logic in doing the origin story of the O5 AND the origin story of the Giant Size #1 team in the same movie. One has to be already established before the other one can come in, or else the story becomes convoluted and unwieldy (and way too costly to make).

 

[Iceman]

I would like to see them start with the 05. Come at me, haters.

In all seriousness, I still feel that an 05 film could work, in spite of the "boringness" of the original comic. The characters and their legacy still have relevance in the comic.

Have the film start with Jean being introduced to the rest of the 05, similar to the first issue. But have them locating more future team members as a plot point. That way characters like Storm can get their due and become members of team by the film's end.

I just never liked the idea of starting the films off by adapting ANAD. Yes, the comic revived the franchise and made it diverse, but at the same time, you're ignoring how the X-Men started off in the first place. Otherwise, you're just telling the audience "Yes, there was a team before this one. But so what?". It's putting the cart before the horse.

I want the 05 to actually flourish and develop like they did in the comics. I want Scott and Jean's relationship to mean something. I want Beast to start off an otherwise normal-looking guy with large hands and feet, so that we feel for him when he turns himself blue in a sequel. I want Warren to actually be an X-Man, and have it matter when he becomes Archangel.

By just cherry picking all the fan favorites, it just feels like we'd wind up doing something similar to the Fox films, which wound up being full of inconsistencies. The 05 still have their legacy in the comics, and for the films to just throw that aside would just feel wrong. It was one thing when Fox did it back before superhero movies were huge, but for Marvel to do it now would just feel weird.

And again, it would not have to be X-Men 05: The Movie. I want them to introduce more mutants over the course of the film. Heck, the climax of the film could even be an adaptation of ANAD, where the new recruits save the 05. And from there, maybe split the mutants into the Blue and Gold teams or something. I just want the initial team at the start of the film to consist of Cyclops, Iceman, Angel, Beast and Marvel Girl.

I doubt anyone minds that. It’s only when you have only the O5 for the whole film that you are limiting the scope of the first film. First films are crucial and this is Marvel’s chance to make X-films event movies from the start and make it clear that X-Men are in new hands. I would like for the first act to introduce the O5 and the school and eventually see them on a mission. They can even pick up the new recruits during that initial (possibly mutant rescue) mission.

 

[Kuwolski]

I'd personally have the first film be about the formation of whatever team is used. Whether it be formed in the actual film or a recently formed team (which I would prefer). The minute you start going too far back to preexisting teams the more it (potentially) effects established MCU timelines and the more you have to explain/concoct overwrought scenarios of where mutants were ect. The less mutants known (and in existence) the better.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Forget about where mutants were during the events of the previous movies. Where was the Ancient One during the Battle of NY? Where was Mordo? We've had magic being practiced for centuries in the MCU and no magic user showed up to defend earth when aliens were attacking?

 

[Marvel united]

Forget about where mutants were during the events of the previous movies. Where was the Ancient One during the Battle of NY? Where was Mordo? We've had magic being practiced for centuries in the MCU and no magic user showed up to defend earth when aliens were attacking?

Very easy explanation for that. The Sorcerer battles happened in completely different dimensions and they can bend time and space. Completely different to the mutants situation. And it was very clearly explained in the movie that they are on a completely different level than the Avengers and that the threats they deal with are different as well.

 

[Kuwolski]

Forget about where mutants were during the events of the previous movies. Where was the Ancient One during the Battle of NY? Where was Mordo? We've had magic being practiced for centuries in the MCU and no magic user showed up to defend earth when aliens were attacking?

True, but to this point, it's why I believe the less mutants in existence the better.

Why?

Because ancient Sorcerers and Sorcerer supreme's hiding themselves from a modern world that was born long after they were is one thing, but a teenager in the midwest taking out a section of a mall when her boyfriend dumps her is another thing altogether. The less mutants known or in existence, the easier it is to explain. Or for someone to be secretly hiding their existence. That's all I'm saying, it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Marvel united]

True, but to this point, it's why I believe the less mutants in existence the better.

Why?

Because ancient Sorcerers and Sorcerer supreme's hiding themselves from a modern world that was born long after they were is one thing, but a teenager in the midwest taking out a section of a mall when her boyfriend dumps her is another thing altogether. The less mutants known or in existence, the easier it is to explain. Or for someone to be secretly hiding their existence. That's all I'm saying, it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

Exactly. Part of the reason why going back to beginning makes more sense, is much easier to explain and would fit comfortably in the MCU timeline. Just have the mass emergence of mutants be a new phenomenon. Only a few existed prior to whatever causes mass activation of the X-Gene.

It's the problem of Spider-Man being a seasoned veteran in the MCU only on a MUCH larger scale. (a lot of people wanted an adult Spider-Man in early 2015)

 

[psylockolussus]

Sorcerers and mutants aren't the same thing. A mutant can be anybody. Sorcerers are sorcerers by choice.

 

[Kuwolski]

Exactly. Part of the reason why going back to beginning makes more sense, is much easier to explain and would fit comfortably in the MCU timeline. Just have the mass emergence of mutants be a new phenomenon. Only a few existed prior to whatever causes mass activation of the X-Gene

Agreed. My only point of contention would be there's no reason why the original team of mutants from the comics need to be the same in the MCU. But again, I certainly wouldn't be opposed.

 

[psylockolussus]

Being faithful is one and we have never seen the o5 together inna film. They were all in X3, but Cyclops didn't have a scene with Angel and Beast. I don't remember Cyclops interacting with Iceman.

 

[Marvel united]

Agreed. My only point of contention would be there's no reason why the original team of mutants from the comics need to be the same in the MCU. But again, I certainly wouldn't be opposed.

They gotta be, didn't care for the First Class route of randomly mixing and matching different X-Men members. For the first MCU X-Men movie, you gotta have the essentials in there.

 

[psylockolussus]

Waiting for Psychokolossus to tell me that Judge Dredd is not a Marvel character.

He didn't appear in Marvel comics. So there's no way that Dredd would appear in a MCU film.

 

[DrCosmic]

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of doing an Original Five movie? If you are just going to replace them with the second team in the sequel then you might as well just skip them, keep their adventures in the past, and start with the second team right off the bat.

Otherwise, you need to do a trilogy with the Original Five if you are trying to get the audience invested in their story. You can't just do a movie with them and then discard them in the next one. That is completely counter-intuitive to what you say you want to accomplish. I don't see how that would work.

So, as we've seen with filmakers this talented, it only takes 1 film to get the audience 100% invested, not three, so no worries there. The reason to do an O5 film is the same exact reason to say they have past adventures, but with the added bonus of following the show don't tell rule. Otherwise, why have there a previous X-Men team at all? What is that necessary for?

How does that mitigate anything?

You race change one of them, fans will complain its not faithful enough. If you don't race change one of them, fans will complain you gave them an all white, dated lineup. If you make an O5 movie only to set up Storm and Wolverine, then what was the point of doing an Original Five movie? Fans will then complain about that, because they will feel their time got wasted.

Seems like a no win situation to me. Why bother... when you can just start with the second team.

Obviously any development on an X-Men movie is going to be scrutinized by fans and the internet. Not everyone can be pleased. But if the majority of the audience isn't going to be excited about a movie starring the Original Five, and doesn't need another origin story (because we've already had 18 years of X-Men movies), what business or storytelling sense would there be in committing the millions of dollars and the two year development cycle required to make a movie that is primarily about these elements?

You still haven't explained why the origin story of the X-Men is so compelling that we need to start there. What information could we learn from an entire movie devoted to giving that information that we couldn't get from a prequel comic, or a scene in a present day movie, or a future appearance of the O5?

The great thing about the MCU being so long running is all I have to do is point to SMHC, and we see how minor and irrelevant complaints about race-changing are. Once a good movie comes out, it's like they never happened. No alienation, all win, except for that one guy in the Spider-Man forums that everyone calls a troll.

Another important side effect of doing the O5 as their own movie and then replacing most of them is that you set the precedent for characters to cycle out of the franchise, giving you an opportunity to tell a more dynamic story, without feeling like you HAVE to keep Nightcrawler on once you bring him on the team.

And while we have have had many X-Men movies, we've also had many Spider-Man movies, and the MCU decided to start Spider-Man before he became a master of his abilities and an established superhero. He basically started where every X-Student starts when they show up to the mansion: I have these powers, but I think I need someone to show me what to do with them. It worked for them in SMHC because previous X-Men movies don't make people care about the new X-Men. No amount love for Tobey's Spidey makes people care about Tom's spidey, if anything, those previous movie create a set of obstacles and problematic preconceptions. Your X-Men origin movie has 18 years of X-Men movies to beat in order not to be dismissed, but it also can't try to cover 18 years of story at once, because that will be compared to the Fox Men history that has a lot more emotional resonance because of it's 20 hours of content.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Very easy explanation for that. The Sorcerer battles happened in completely different dimensions and they can bend time and space. Completely different to the mutants situation. And it was very clearly explained in the movie that they are on a completely different level than the Avengers and that the threats they deal with are different as well.

Doesn't that logic also apply to the X-Men? They deal primarily with mutants. Hypothetically, would the original five X-Men had any reason to just jump into the Battle of NY and leave themselves exposed to the world (especially when the Avengers were already dealing with it)?

In the first season of X-Men Evolution, mutants didn't become known to the public until the X-Men were fighting a Sentinel on the streets of New York in front of news cameras. We could do the same thing in the MCU and skip the O5 movie that feels completely unnecessary and problematic.