MCU X-Men

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the more i think about it, the more i think feige will go younger O5 to keep the actors around for 10 years or so and we'll get them on an early mission but with a bigger emphasis on cyclops

then the 2nd movie can introduce the others in the famous krakoa storyline (with some mcu updates/tweaks i'm sure), as it's one of the few big x-storylines that the fox movies haven't touched
 
With the O5, they could actually keep them around for the next 17 years since they started out as teenagers. Kinda like Tom Holland who can be Spider-Man for the next 15-18 years. But regardless of which route they go, I think it's safe to say most of the principal members will be under 30 years old for longevity.
 
Doesn't that logic also apply to the X-Men? They deal primarily with mutants. Hypothetically, would the original five X-Men had any reason to just jump into the Battle of NY and leave themselves exposed to the world (especially when the Avengers were already dealing with it)?

In the first season of X-Men Evolution, mutants didn't become known to the public until the X-Men were fighting a Sentinel on the streets of New York in front of news cameras. We could do the same thing in the MCU and skip the O5 movie that feels completely unnecessary and problematic.
Ehh, not really since the X-Mansion is located in New York City. The battle was happening right next to them; exactly where they were. The main base of operations for the Sorcerers/Kamar Taj isn't even in the same country as Avengers HQ. And Wong himself said that they essentially let the Avengers deal with "Phyiscal dangers" while they deal with mystical threats; extra dimensional beings/threatening the very fabric of existence itself - which is why Strange & Wong are involved in the battle with Thanos. Their fights don't even take place in the same plane of existence as the Avengers. Any of the X-Men's battles with Magneto, Vulcan, Sentinels etc would have been loud and have since caught the attention of the public. Apples and Oranges.
 
Doesn't that logic also apply to the X-Men? They deal primarily with mutants. Hypothetically, would the original five X-Men had any reason to just jump into the Battle of NY and leave themselves exposed to the world (especially when the Avengers were already dealing with it)?

What about the potential destruction of the planet at the hands of Thanos? Is the risk of being exposed greater then the potential end of life itself? Is that not worth fighting for?

When you have 10 years of existing continuity the sudden emergence of a subspecies from hiding needs to be explained convincingly, not explained away conveniently. It's one thing if they were there from the start of the MCU and weaved into the initial fabric (Wong likely would have mentioned mutants to Strange, Sitwell to Cap and Widow on the roof), but they weren't, so it needs to be done carefully and without convoluting the MCU timeline.
 
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So, as we've seen with filmakers this talented, it only takes 1 film to get the audience 100% invested, not three, so no worries there. The reason to do an O5 film is the same exact reason to say they have past adventures, but with the added bonus of following the show don't tell rule. Otherwise, why have there a previous X-Men team at all? What is that necessary for?

So hypothetically you get the audience invested in a story about the O5 by doing an awesome movie featuring them, one that defies expectations. Then what? You basically have to get them to care about the new team in the sequel all over again. So at the end of the day, what was the point of that first movie? Do you not see why that is a problem?

In the comics, the O5 started out as teenagers and then we got a time skip and they were adults. In a comic book this is easy and relatively fast to do (depending on the artist capabilities). You can produce more content more quickly and cheaply, whereas movies take millions of dollars and two years at a time to produce. So given that, is it really a good idea to devote massive resources to make an original five teen X-men movie, then do another movie with them as adults, and then finally get to the characters the majority wants to see anyway? I don't see the bonuses or the benefits to that.

I like the idea of having an original five X-Men team that existed before; because it allows us to skip unnecessary origin crap, and gives a seamless way to introduce Beast, Angel and Iceman into the fold and make them instantly relevant and important to the world. *Not* doing an O5 movie works better in this regard, because I think the concept of the original team ultimately works better as an off screen movie (pre-history) than one that is actually produced.

The great thing about the MCU being so long running is all I have to do is point to SMHC, and we see how minor and irrelevant complaints about race-changing are. Once a good movie comes out, it's like they never happened. No alienation, all win, except for that one guy in the Spider-Man forums that everyone calls a troll.

Who did they really race swap in Spider-Man Homecoming that anyone would care about? The most notable flirtation with that was Michelle calling herself "Mary Jane", but that was an obvious cop out by Marvel (they didn't actually commit to making her the Mary Jane of the comics).

They certainly didn't do anything in that movie that would be the equivalent of making Jean Grey a black woman (or replacing her spot on the O5 team with Storm). So I don't see how that proves your point.

Another important side effect of doing the O5 as their own movie and then replacing most of them is that you set the precedent for characters to cycle out of the franchise, giving you an opportunity to tell a more dynamic story, without feeling like you HAVE to keep Nightcrawler on once you bring him on the team.

I think establishing the idea that there was an original X-Men team in the past already sets up the idea that team membership can change.

And while we have have had many X-Men movies, we've also had many Spider-Man movies, and the MCU decided to start Spider-Man before he became a master of his abilities and an established superhero. He basically started where every X-Student starts when they show up to the mansion: I have these powers, but I think I need someone to show me what to do with them. It worked for them in SMHC because previous X-Men movies don't make people care about the new X-Men. No amount love for Tobey's Spidey makes people care about Tom's spidey, if anything, those previous movie create a set of obstacles and problematic preconceptions. Your X-Men origin movie has 18 years of X-Men movies to beat in order not to be dismissed, but it also can't try to cover 18 years of story at once, because that will be compared to the Fox Men history that has a lot more emotional resonance because of it's 20 hours of content.

How were we introduced to Tom Holland as Spider-Man? Was it an origin movie? Was it in Spider-Man Homecoming?

No.

We were introduced to him in Civil War, in ONE scene where Tony Stark recruits him. In that ONE scene we got introduced to Aunt May, got to see footage of him in prior action on Stark's phone, got to see his webbing, and even got him to tell Tony (and us) about his origin, all in the span of ten minutes. We were then treated to another awesome ten minutes of him in his new suit fighting Captain America's team. All a grand total of 20 minutes, and Marvel used Spider-Man far better in that time than Sony did with both Amazing Spider-Man movies.

If we can set Spider-Man up like that, why couldn't we introduce Beast like that in an future X-Men movie? Or Iceman or Angel like that? And why wouldn't it just be better to introduce them that way, rather than doing an entire movie about establishing their origins?
 
The Spider-Man analogy doesn't work because what you're suggesting they do for X-Men is not the same thing they did to Spider-Man at all. The equivalent to what you're suggesting would be to start Peter off as a 25 year old married science teacher at Midtown High-school as opposed to the awkward, Inexperienced 15 year old rookie that he currently is in the MCU..
 
X-MEN have to start at least in mid to late 20's if there's any chance at decent AvX movie. Avenger's would own teenage O5 instantly. I'm thinking Cyclops actor is closer to Chris Evans age in 2011 than Tom Holland age in CW.
 
The Spider-Man analogy doesn't work because what you're suggesting they do for X-Men is not the same thing they did to Spider-Man at all. The equivalent to what you're suggesting would be to start Peter off as a 25 year old married science teacher at Midtown High-school as opposed to the awkward, Inexperienced 15 year old rookie that he currently is in the MCU..

I am talking about how you introduce someone who is already an established superhero (which Spider-Man was in that scene... he was caught on video saving people) and explaining who they are with limited screen time.
 
Ehh, not really since the X-Mansion is located in New York City. The battle was happening right next to them; exactly where they were.

Why would Xavier's be in NYC? It's kinda interesting if Avengers & X-MEN both lived upstate. Iron Man could pop by with the image inducer tech
 
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I prefer mid 20s to early 30s, I want them as adults and fierce in battle.
 
Why would Xavier's be in NYC? It's kinda interesting if Avengers & X-MEN both lived upstate. Iron Man could pop by with the image inducer tech

Westchester County borders New York City, so it's not in upstate New York. You should know that since you live there. :cwink:
 
It seems like people are arguing between “start with the O5 near the beginning” and “have the O5 already retired, make a new team.” Why are those the only options? Isn’t the best compromise a first team that was just assembled (like rookie Peter in SMH), but one that isn’t the O5? What’s the benefit of doing specifically those 5? Nobody outside of comics fans knows that they were the original team, and only some comics fans want them in the movie. It’s a small portion of the audience that cares. What are the upsides to making an O5 movie other than “it respects the source material” or whatever? Why bother raceswapping the O5 when you could just build an already diverse team?
 
It seems like people are arguing between “start with the O5 near the beginning” and “have the O5 already retired, make a new team.” Why are those the only options? Isn’t the best compromise a first team that was just assembled (like rookie Peter in SMH), but one that isn’t the O5? What’s the benefit of doing specifically those 5? Nobody outside of comics fans knows that they were the original team, and only some comics fans want them in the movie. It’s a small portion of the audience that cares. What are the upsides to making an O5 movie other than “it respects the source material” or whatever? Why bother raceswapping the O5 when you could just build an already diverse team?

I'd like there to be some cohesion between the films and the comics. The audience may not know or care about who the 05 were, but there's no reason that a major Hollywood film couldn't enlighten them. The Fox films made a mess of things, why can't Marvel at least try to right it?

However, there should be other mutants who show up during the course of the film. It would be a total waste to just give us the 05 the entire time. Not so much because of a lack of diversity, but because there's so many interesting mutants out there that also deserve to be in the film.
 
It seems like people are arguing between “start with the O5 near the beginning” and “have the O5 already retired, make a new team.” Why are those the only options? Isn’t the best compromise a first team that was just assembled (like rookie Peter in SMH), but one that isn’t the O5? What’s the benefit of doing specifically those 5? Nobody outside of comics fans knows that they were the original team, and only some comics fans want them in the movie. It’s a small portion of the audience that cares. What are the upsides to making an O5 movie other than “it respects the source material” or whatever? Why bother raceswapping the O5 when you could just build an already diverse team?
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Lol, exactly. I'm not sure why it has to be an either/or scenario.
 
I don’t think they’ll feel particularly restricted. Anything (including 05) should be on the table and they just make what they believe will work best leading to the best possible X-Men film and make the biggest possible splash and contribution to the MCU.
 
Westchester County borders New York City, so it's not in upstate New York. You should know that since you live there. :cwink:


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Where X-MEN live is like 60 miles from nyc. That's not that close. My location is the address of the Xavier institute I don't live there lol
 
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I'll be disappointed if they go the First Class route and randomly slap together different X-Men from the comics for the first lineup.
 
It seems like people are arguing between “start with the O5 near the beginning” and “have the O5 already retired, make a new team.” Why are those the only options? Isn’t the best compromise a first team that was just assembled (like rookie Peter in SMH), but one that isn’t the O5? What’s the benefit of doing specifically those 5? Nobody outside of comics fans knows that they were the original team, and only some comics fans want them in the movie. It’s a small portion of the audience that cares. What are the upsides to making an O5 movie other than “it respects the source material” or whatever? Why bother raceswapping the O5 when you could just build an already diverse team?
The general audience wouldn't care that much if Miles Morales started out as the first Spider-Man - (in fact many people who knew nothing about Miles wanted him strictly for diversity. There was a huge outcry for Miles in 2015) as long as the movie is good. They wouldn't really care if Spider-Man's costume consisted of a red ski mask and red and blue rain coat. They didn't care about the huge changes Trank's FF made to the First Family, they didn't care about how Doom looked like a trash bag dummy. They wouldn't care about A LOT of things. But that is absolutely not Feige's mindset when making these movies "Oh, the general audience won't care, only comic fans so we don't have to do these characters justice" and why should it be? Feige is a huge fan of the X-Men comic books and Marvel comics in general. He knows this is the chance to do the X-Men right
 
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I doubt Marvel would go the FC route. I think most people want the majority of the O5 lineup, just with a few additions/subtractions. Beast is my second favorite mutant, but I'd prefer transformed Beast right off the bat as opposed to Quasimodo Hank, and I'd add Rogue or Kitty (Kitty for me), and swap Angel for Storm.
 
Even without choosing to do the O5, I'd expect most of the O5 to be there anyway. It's probably only Angel whose chances of appearing hang particularly on an O5 decision.
 
I could see at least one scene where the xmen divide in two and the 05 fight together
 
The general audience wouldn't care that much if Miles Morales started out as the first Spider-Man - (in fact many people who knew nothing about Miles wanted him strictly for diversity. There was a huge outcry for Miles in 2015) as long as the movie is good. They wouldn't really care if Spider-Man's costume consisted of a red ski mask and red and blue rain coat. They didn't care about the huge changes Trank's FF made to the First Family, they didn't care about how Doom looked like a trash bag dummy. They wouldn't care about A LOT of things. But that is absolutely not Feige's mindset when making these movies "Oh, the general audience won't care, only comic fans so we don't have to do these characters justice" and why should it be? Feige is a huge fan of the X-Men comic books and Marvel comics in general. He knows this is the chance to do the X-Men right

Sure, Feige is a comics fan - that’s a part of what allows him to lead Marvel so well. But is he a fan specifically of the O5 lineup? Doubtful, since it didn’t sell well back in the day. He’s probably a fan of the X-Men at their best - Claremont, Byrne, Morrison, and probably some others that I’m just not as familiar with. The movies can totally have the idea of history, of original members and later teams, without being restricted to the O5.

I wouldn’t have a huge problem with an O5 movie, as long as they added Storm and made Iceman gay from the beginning. It would be diverse enough, not just in race and gender, but in personality. However, I see no reason to be restricted to that team. Did they start with the original comics Avengers? No. So why bother with the original X-Men?
 
I could see at least one scene where the xmen divide in two and the 05 fight together

There will surely be a nod somewhere in the MCU X-films.
 
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