Michael Bay Directing Benghazi Drama "13 Hours"

It's like 90% of other war movies from Saving Private Ryan, Letters to Iwo Jima (from what I remember), Platoon (although Platoon did show American soldiers being extremely f***ed up), Lone Survivor, etc. They're being told through American eyes, so you're not seeing what makes the other side tick. It's mostly just showing America doing there thing

Letters from Iwo Jima is told from the perspective of Japanese soldiers.
 
Yeah I meant to say it's being told through one side's eyes.
 
I remember hearing from a soldier once before in real life, and to this day, I hear them say this all of the time, sure, they are aware of the political strifes going on in Washington that dictate their movements, but, the soldier will tell you, once that first bullet goes flying past your head, all politics and the rest of that sh***t go flying right out the damn window!

That's a line in Black Hawk Down.

Just curious: would you consider Saving Private Ryan as being 3D heroes, 2D villains?


But idk I feel that's a silly complaint when the movie is being told solely through the eyes of one side.

In 13 Hours do you get a nuanced look at the motives of the attackers? No. Did it make the Libyan people look bad? No. So yeah I would say that the villains weren't fully realized characters at all.

It's like 90% of other war movies from Saving Private Ryan, Letters to Iwo Jima (from what I remember), Platoon (although Platoon did show American soldiers being extremely f***ed up), Lone Survivor, etc. They're being told through one side's eyes, so you're not seeing what makes the other side tick. It's mostly just showing America doing there thing

This isn't like Pearl Harbor that had those weird Japan, wearing all black, planning scenes. This is showing a group of American former soldiers and soldiers trying to protect other Americans from getting killed. Simple as that.

Yeah, I think it's fine if you're focusing on one side, but make sure it's executed right. I think it's best to judge a movie on its own terms. Not every movie needs to be part Iwo Jima and Flags of Our Fathers. Take a ****ing stand and say what you want to say but be honest. Just make sure when you tell the other side it's not overlooked. Private Ryan told the POV of the American side but it was by no means a patriotic film. These soldiers were weary to just being *******s who kept questioning their orders of risking their life to save one guy. And the death kept being stacked up around them. Hanks even takes this mission just to go home. Where's that all great American glory and honor that's put into people's head during war time? It's not there with any character in this movie. Nothing glorious about any of these deaths and it's pretty much the opposite of the propaganda and the mythification of WWII that's happened.

I even think The Patriot does a very good job at this. I feel like some people would see that title today and just dismiss it for being "Too patriotic" or "jingiostic" but that title is so tied into Mel Gibson's character. You see a man who is ashamed at what he did in the French and Indian war and has renounced violence and goes on a journey to doing what's necessary and something that's bigger than him -- all the while half his sons and his friends die along the way and for what he sees as him paying for his past sins. Even the scene when he brutally slaughters that British officer. There's nothing glorious about that scene. It's horrifying and his sons see a man they don't recognize.
 
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I remember hearing from a soldier once before in real life, and to this day, I hear them say this all of the time, sure, they are aware of the political strifes going on in Washington that dictate their movements, but, the soldier will tell you, once that first bullet goes flying past your head, all politics and the rest of that sh***t go flying right out the damn window!

That's a line in Black Hawk Down.

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That's a line in Black Hawk Down.



Yeah, I think it's fine if you're focusing on one side, but make sure it's executed right. I think it's best to judge a movie on its own terms. Not every movie needs to be part Iwo Jima and Flags of Our Fathers. Take a ****ing stand and say what you want to say but be honest. Just make sure when you tell the other side it's not overlooked. Private Ryan told the POV of the American side but it was by no means a patriotic film. These soldiers were weary to just being *******s who kept questioning their orders of risking their life to save one guy. And the death kept being stacked up around them. Hanks even takes this mission just to go home. Where's that all great American glory and honor that's put into people's head during war time? It's not there with any character in this movie. Nothing glorious about any of these deaths and it's pretty much the opposite of the propaganda and the mythification of WWII that's happened.
I would say in some respects that 13 Hours is similar in that there is dialogue about how pointless they are in Libya and what is the purpose of what their doing.
But 13 Hours is a bit more patriotic.

But at the end of the day, 13 Hours really is a story about a group of soldiers who were defending their co workers and friends even though they thought they all were going to die. I found that kinda inspiring.
If that makes me overly patriotic or jigonistic, then fine. But I still think this is a good movie that doesn't necessarily overly hype up the military (actually the main 6 characters weren't even in the military at the time of the attack). It's not really a "look how glorious the US army is" type affair.
 
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That's interesting to hear. By no means should someone make you feel guilty about that. God forbid they make a slightly patriotic film that might interfere with someone's delicate sensibilities. Patriotism isn't a bad thing as an idea or a definition. Nothing really is it just depends on how it's used like anything. And people conflate patriotism with people like the Republican candidates are using this to propagate themselves and make it their political football, so if anything is connected to them, some people are put off by that which is wrong. Ain't the movie's fault.
 
Just saw it. Was actually expecting it to be more chest thumping, uber patriotic drivel than it was. Divorced from the real life circumstances it was a fairly competent action movie. I honestly found American Sniper to be even more blindly patriotic than this film was. John Krazinski surprised me. He did a damn fine job.
 
American Sniper didn't even try to be patriotic. It didn't try to be anything. It was just so safely down the middle while also leaving out things about Kyle to simplify him giving license for anybody to go in and put their own ******** into it. Which is a fault of the film. Movie Bob gave a pretty good analysis of the thing.
 
American Sniper was a bit too Jingoistic/ 'merica"/ "makes me want to shoot some rag heads" flavored to me IMO. I hated the opinions people shared after seeing it, especially in regards to the PTSD they barely touched upon, and the "Sniper Hypocrisy" that people have developed in the last 20 years. Such a frustrating film, felt kind of disgusted after seeing it.

With this film, I had a good friend who seen it who is fairly politically neutral, he had no big opinions on it. His take away, it was an entertaining action film, but he kept commenting how Bay had a lower budget because the explosions looked cheaper. I asked about if there was any obvious administration bashing, he said they didn't say anything was direct, but that the bureaucrats were portrayed as incompetent and didn't have any real presence compared to the soldiers/ CIA guys.

Maybe I'll see it when it hits cable, but it just seemed like a bit too opportunistic and politically motivated production. Apparently given it's failure capturing the same fervor American Sniper did, many others agreed.
 
I consider myself pretty liberal, but why does a movie that seems to be somewhat patriotic viewed as extreme when other movies decrying it aren't? Because the latter isn't really any morally better than the former. Both ends tend to be jerks about their viewpoints.
 
I love Patriotic and Military films, I just don't appreciate the modern Ugly American/ Bigoted POV being shoehorned into it because people celebrate that crap anymore. AS would be so much better if it focused on PTSD of these guys and ladies coming home, not B.S. Sniper Duels. But given the author and source material, I was worried going in.

With 13 hours, I hate to admit it, but Michael Bay directing it didn't leave me with a lot of anticipation. I love Clint, and AS really just took the wind out of my sails.
 
I consider myself pretty liberal, but why does a movie that seems to be somewhat patriotic viewed as extreme when other movies decrying it aren't? Because the latter isn't really any morally better than the former. Both ends tend to be jerks about their viewpoints.

I think it's because living in a post Bush/Iraq War world, the idea of sheer patriotism now is kind of disingenuous, because I think people are getting the hint that having pride for your country doesn't really do much for them. Anything that may come off as more positive may feel like it's patronizing and like they're going on with something that just isn't really true. I'm not even patriotic (though I watched the Women's World Cup which was nice I guess), I don't care that much. But those should still be separate from what the movie is about and judged on its own terms. There's still both sides to everything.
 
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I wasn't going to watch this because I thought it might be the same jingoistic, xenophobic, pro military drivel, machismo nonsense you would expect from Michael Bay but it wasn't bad.

Better and less political than American Sniper.

The movie was too long but ultimately enjoyable enough. The only thing I know Benghazi was that the ambassador was killed when a compound he was at got stormed so I can't speak how accurate the film is.

Bay did a good job with the unease and sheer randomness of the situation.

Yeah, I think it's become like a kneejerk reaction not only here in the states but around the world to view the US military as a shady organization with jack booted thugs.

The CIA has it worst. Post 9/11 CIA is evil or amoral in just about every movie or TV show.
 

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