Minimum Wage Goes Up!

[katie_girl09]

People could then argue that, when prices go down, so should minimum wage.

Hey, why not?

 

[Majic Walrus]

I am aware of that, but the sad truth is that in North America, the price of things go up even without a raise. For that reason alone, I think minimum wage should be adjusted from time to time.

This is true and it's the reasoning behind the current increase. I think that minimum wage shouldn't necessarily be designed to keep people "above water" so to speak because as you said earlier they can still end up on government assistance. I think a better kind of minimum wage should be enforced to ensure that companies pay their employees fairly.

 

[Paradoxium]

This is true and it's the reasoning behind the current increase. I think that minimum wage shouldn't necessarily be designed to keep people "above water" so to speak because as you said earlier they can still end up on government assistance. I think a better kind of minimum wage should be enforced to ensure that companies pay their employees fairly.

This will never happen, one of the flaws of capitalism. And even if there is regulation, it won't work. You know people under 5'7 generally get paid less than those taller? I bet you $1000 better looking people get better opportunities. We humans irrational *******s, we overrate our rationality t:

 

[Majic Walrus]

This will never happen, one of the flaws of capitalism. And even if there is regulation, it won't work. You know people under 5'7 generally get paid less than those taller? I bet you $1000 better looking people get better opportunities. We humans irrational *******s, we overrate our rationality t:

Good points, sad... but good.

 

[Scarlet spidey]

When minimum wage goes up so do prices, and unemployment.

 

[Heretic]

Minimum wage is not meant to be a wage that supports a family. It is meant for unskilled, untrained workers. By forcing employers to pay these people more, it WILL raise prices and it WILL lead to unemployment.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Minimum wage is not meant to be a wage that supports a family. It is meant for unskilled, untrained workers. By forcing employers to pay these people more, it WILL raise prices and it WILL lead to unemployment.

Unskilled, untrained workers have families too. What exactly is minimum wage designed for as it's used today?

 

[Heretic]

It is NOT the role of society to raise the living standard of those who do not seek to better their own living standard.

The minimum wage is, always will be, a wage paid to those who are unskilled and untrained. If a person chooses to remain unskilled and untrained, then in NO WAY is it the rest of the country's responsibility to give them more money for no added contribution from them.

 

[katie_girl09]

It is NOT the role of society to raise the living standard of those who do not seek to better their own living standard.

The minimum wage is, always will be, a wage paid to those who are unskilled and untrained. If a person chooses to remain unskilled and untrained, then in NO WAY is it the rest of the country's responsibility to give them more money for no added contribution from them.

Its not always a choice. Sometimes people get stuck in a rut. That's the same as saying that all poor people are poor because they are lazy. There are very hard-working poor people in this world.

 

[Majic Walrus]

It is NOT the role of society to raise the living standard of those who do not seek to better their own living standard.

The minimum wage is, always will be, a wage paid to those who are unskilled and untrained. If a person chooses to remain unskilled and untrained, then in NO WAY is it the rest of the country's responsibility to give them more money for no added contribution from them.

Training and education costs money, it is hard to get money when you're working a minimum wage job. Just because someone is "poor" it does not mean that they do not wish to better their own living standard, it is just very difficult to do that on minimum wage.

 

[Heretic]

Its not always a choice. Sometimes people get stuck in a rut. That's the same as saying that all poor people are poor because they are lazy. There are very hard-working poor people in this world.

It's not the same at all.

Lazy and unskilled are two different words with two different meanings.

If someone is stuck in a rut...for YEARS...heck...FOREVER...then why should I have to pay more just because they are in a rut? I believe that hard work, risk taking, education and dedication should result in the person keeping the money that they earn. I do NOT believe that everyones money is the property of the US government to dish out however they see fit.

If you work at McDonalds and dont want minimum wage...EARN A PROMOTION. Be the best darn burger maker you can be. However, if you do not work hard to excel at your job, Im not sure why McDonalds should reward you for poor performance. Of course, prices will go up, so I as a McDonalds customer is now punished for your poor performance while you reap the benefits.

Look at it this way...I sell you a gumball for 10 cents every day during your lunch break. One day you walk up to me to buy one and I say "that'll be one dollar please". Why would you pay a dollar for something that is clearly only worth a dime??? Well...the government FORCES you to buy it. I have increased my skill and workload by ZERO percent, while your cost is now ten times what it used to be. It hardly seems fair, right? Then why is it fair to do it to business owners???

 

[Heretic]

Training and education costs money, it is hard to get money when you're working a minimum wage job. Just because someone is "poor" it does not mean that they do not wish to better their own living standard, it is just very difficult to do that on minimum wage.

Training does not cost money.

I worked as a painters assistant as a kid...then took the initiative to learn to paint. Guess what??? I joined the painting crew and tripled my paycheck. It cost me NOTHING except extra work.

As a teen I worked in a store as a cashier. I worked hard, learned everything i could, and became manager of a new store while still in high school. That training cost me NOTHING except hard work.

I was a volunteer at a record label as an adult. I worked hard, had some good ideas, was reliable and professional...and ended up working promotional campaigns for some of the biggest artists in the country. That cost me NOTHING except hard work.

 

[katie_girl09]

...Of course, prices will go up, so I as a McDonalds customer is now punished for your poor performance while you reap the benefits.

McDonald's is going to get more and more expensive regardless of whether it pays its employees more or not. That's capitalism. I would rather they use some of that money to pay their employees better. Than into some wealthy pencil-pusher's pocket. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Majic Walrus]

It's not the same at all.

Lazy an unskilled are two different wors with two different meanings.

If someone is stuck in a rut...for YEARS...heck...FOREVER...then why should I have to pay more just because they are in a rut? I believe that hard work, risk taking, education and dedication should result in the person keeping the money that they earn. I do NOT believe that everyones money is the property of the US government to dish out however they see fit.

If you work at McDonalds and dont want minimum wage...EARN A PROMOTION. Be the best darn burger maker you can be. However, if you do not work hard to excel at your job, Im not sure why McDonalds should reward you for poor performance. Of course, prices will go up, so I as a McDonalds customer is now punished for your poor performance while you reap the benefits.

Look at it this way...I sell you a gumball for 10 cents every day during your lunch break. One day you walk up to me to buy one and I say "that'll be one dollar please". Why would you pay a dollar for something that is clearly only worth a dime??? Well...the government FORCES you to buy it. I have increased my skill and workload by ZERO percent, while your cost is now ten times what it used to be. It hardly seems fair, right? Then why is it fair to do it to business owners???

We're not talking about poor performers getting a raise, we're talking about hard workers getting raises. Poor workers will get terminated.

In addition working hard does not always earn you a promotion in the real world. Sometimes working hard is done to maintain the status quo.

I understand that in a perfect world someone would work hard, save their money, and then put themselves through med school or whatever. Real rags to riches story... But unfortunately that doesn't happen. Low-paid employees cannot gain the skills necessary to advance (especially in today's job market) because they cannot afford education. They cannot save money because they're spending all of their money just to pay for housing, food, necessities and the like for their family.

Without the minimum wage companies would pay as little as possible, so little in fact that employees wouldn't be able to survive... much less succeed, advance, and get promoted.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Training does not cost money.

I worked as a painters assistant as a kid...then took the initiative to learn to paint. Guess what??? I joined the painting crew and tripled my paycheck. It cost me NOTHING except extra work.

As a teen I worked in a store as a cashier. I worked hard, learned everything i could, and became manager of a new store while still in high school. That training cost me NOTHING except hard work.

I was a volunteer at a record label as an adult. I worked hard, had some good ideas, was reliable and professional...and ended up working promotional campaigns for some of the biggest artists in the country. That cost me NOTHING except hard work.

None of those things really involve training. I'm talking about formal training and education. As far as advancing in a career my other post addresses that.

 

[Heretic]

People should be paid what they are worth. Not a dime more.

Again, ANYONE can get free training and advance. Its not all about med school...its about being good at whatever it is you do.

If you are the best employee at your retail store...you will eventually get a promotion and will no longer be on minimum wage. The same can be said for all minimum wage jobs...there is always a boss...and theres always a need for more bosses somewhere.

Make yourself vital to the company, and they will pay up...make yourself a nonentity due to poor performance an unreliability, an they should NOT have to give you a raise.

And I want the money I spend to go to those who cause me to spend it. The waitress at Chilis who was the BEST waitress Ive ever had...I went back there often as long as I was in town and tipped her at least $50 every time. Meanwhile, the moron who punche a few buttons at Best Buy when I bought my watchmen DVD today doesnt deserve the money...the people who made Best Buy a competitively priced store deserve it.

 

[Heretic]

None of those things really involve training. I'm talking about formal training and education. As far as advancing in a career my other post addresses that.

Formal training and education?? If everyone did that half of the economy would shut down.

McDonalds NEEDS managers...and district managers. that really requires no outside training, and you can raise a family on that. EVERY low level job has people up the ladder who got there merely by working hard.

Not everyone can be a doctor or lawyer. i certainly couldnt. But everyone CAN do what they are good at to the best of their ability an climb the ladder of their profession.

I know a guy who hung billboard signs...he hated his job. So, he worked hard, he watched what others did, became valuable in other ways around the company, and he is now head of the entire advertising department...and he is a high school drop out.

I know a girl who was a bank teller. She busted her butt, got involved in the stock division, and now manages multi million dollar accounts for one of the most successful banks in the country...and she also is a high school drop out.

Both of these people own their own homes and live comfortable lives...and hard work alone got them there.

 

[katie_girl09]

...If you are the best employee at your retail store...you will eventually get a promotion and will no longer be on minimum wage. The same can be said for all minimum wage jobs...there is always a boss...and theres always a need for more bosses somewhere...

...Meanwhile, the moron who punche a few buttons at Best Buy when I bought my watchmen DVD today doesnt deserve the money...

Even if one is to go by your model of how things work, do you really think that every employee who is excellent at his/her job will be a manager one day? Realistically?

And I am curious: What is your career that you have enough disdain for minimum wage workers that you would call someone a "moron" because they are a cashier?

 

[Heretic]

Even if one is to go by your model of how things work, do you really think that every employee who is excellent at his/her job will be a manager one day? Realistically?

And I am curious: What is your career that you have enough disdain for minimum wage workers that you would call someone a "moron" because they are a cashier?

wait a second...I didnt call cashiers morons. I called THAT cashier a moron. I waited in line for almost 5 minutes to be rung up, and there WAS NO LINE. The cashier was joking and laughing with another employee and I stood there waiting to pay. I finally said, "can a manager please find the cashier" pretty loudly and they ran over to ring me up. Not all cashiers are morons. Some do their jobs exceptionally well. Those people should, and often do get promoted...and become managers who have to give raises to the girl who laughs and jokes while I wait.

 

[katie_girl09]

wait a second...I didnt call cashiers morons. I called THAT cashier a moron. I waited in line for almost 5 minutes to be rung up, and there WAS NO LINE. The cashier was joking and laughing with another employee and I stood there waiting to pay. I finally said, "can a manager please find the cashier" pretty loudly and they ran over to ring me up. Not all cashiers are morons. Some do their jobs exceptionally well. Those people should, and often do get promoted...and become managers who have to give raises to the girl who laughs and jokes while I wait.

Ah, I see. My mistake.

 

[Heretic]

and for the record, every time I have said what my career is on this board, people have accused me of being a liar and a teenager who still lives with my mom...as if being successful is somehow something only achieved in fairy tales. So, I dodged your question.

But as I mentioned before...I was a cashier once. I busted my rear end and learned all about the business, and became manager, making darn good money now that I think about it! I actually bought my first house, and started my first business based off the money I made as a retail manager.

PS: I wish my D button would work right!

 

[Majic Walrus]

People should be paid what they are worth. Not a dime more.

Again, ANYONE can get free training and advance. Its not all about med school...its about being good at whatever it is you do.

If you are the best employee at your retail store...you will eventually get a promotion and will no longer be on minimum wage. The same can be said for all minimum wage jobs...there is always a boss...and theres always a need for more bosses somewhere.

This is a great thought, but it sadly isn't true.

Make yourself vital to the company, and they will pay up...make yourself a nonentity due to poor performance an unreliability, an they should NOT have to give you a raise.

And I want the money I spend to go to those who cause me to spend it. The waitress at Chilis who was the BEST waitress Ive ever had...I went back there often as long as I was in town and tipped her at least $50 every time. Meanwhile, the moron who punche a few buttons at Best Buy when I bought my watchmen DVD today doesnt deserve the money...the people who made Best Buy a competitively priced store deserve it.

I understand this desire but not every job can have merit based pay that's fair and accurate.

Formal training and education?? If everyone did that half of the economy would shut down.

McDonalds NEEDS managers...and district managers. that really requires no outside training, and you can raise a family on that. EVERY low level job has people up the ladder who got there merely by working hard.

McDonalds doesn't always hire managers from within their franchises anymore because they don't have to now that they can hire people with management experience from previous jobs, they hire people that have already been in management. And they put those people through a formal training program to become "McDonald's Certified"

Not everyone can be a doctor or lawyer. i certainly couldnt. But everyone CAN do what they are good at to the best of their ability an climb the ladder of their profession.

I know a guy who hung billboard signs...he hated his job. So, he worked hard, he watched what others did, became valuable in other ways around the company, and he is now head of the entire advertising department...and he is a high school drop out.

I know a girl who was a bank teller. She busted her butt, got involved in the stock division, and now manages multi million dollar accounts for one of the most successful banks in the country...and she also is a high school drop out.

Both of these people own their own homes and live comfortable lives...and hard work alone got them there.

Single stories of the American Dream in action are lovely and I'm glad that they can and do happen but just because it can happen does not mean that it will and when it doesn't happen the employee that was making minimum wage isn't always to blame.

wait a second...I didnt call cashiers morons. I called THAT cashier a moron. I waited in line for almost 5 minutes to be rung up, and there WAS NO LINE. The cashier was joking and laughing with another employee and I stood there waiting to pay. I finally said, "can a manager please find the cashier" pretty loudly and they ran over to ring me up. Not all cashiers are morons. Some do their jobs exceptionally well. Those people should, and often do get promoted...and become managers who have to give raises to the girl who laughs and jokes while I wait.

First of all, good workers should get promoted, but that doesn't always happen and it doesn't happen enough to depend on that.

Second of all, remember that a regular wage increase is not a "raise". It's not like people working minimum wage aren't still working minimum wage after the wage increase. They are doing the same job for different pay but you are an intelligent man, you know that this has to happen.

Why?

In 1970 the average public school teacher made $9729. A year. Which was excellent pay because the average salary in the US was $7,564. A year. You realize that wages must increase as the economic situation and climate changes... Right?

 

[Addendum]

Yes. Because its always that simple for everyone. Did your cousin have kids, or anyone to provide for besides herself?
People who work those less-than-desirable jobs deserve respect as well. More importantly, they deserve to be able to live as human beings above poverty. They work for their money just as everyone else does. In fact, I find that generally speaking, the more money a person makes, the less they have to work (note - I am NOT saying this is always true). We cannot all be doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. Someone has to work the jobs that they do. If not, society as we know it would collapse.

Just sticking up for the working poor.

My cousin isn't a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. She just didn't want to make a career of being a ****ing cashier at a ****** walmart in springfield, illinois.

Working at a minimum wage job is not intended to be able to live comfortably. It's just enough to get by. It's the jobs that high schoolers with no experience take, while they're going to high school, and they realize "if i don't want to still have this ****** job when I'm older, I better do good in school".

She also had this line of thought while working there "I make just enough to get by as it is, though I want to make my life better. If I start a family of my own, I'll never get out of this place and have a better job. So, I'll wait until I have a better job before I think about becoming a mother." Essentially, it was self-control. You know, not letting hormones do the talking.

 

[Heretic]

Raising the minimum wage IS an undeserved raise not only for the employee who hasnt earned it, but the other employees who were making over minimum wage must also get an increase. That raises the cost of absolutely every aspect of business.

And what people are doing is blaming everyone but the individual for the persons lot in life. Your life is YOUR responsibility, not mine. It is a FACT that if you take responsibility for your own, get an education, and bust your rear end you CAN advance. Every company wants to promote the best people who's talents will benefit the profit margin the most.

But no...lets blame society and the evil cheapskate boss and the taxpayer and lets never, ever blame the individual for their lack of success.

 

[Scarlet spidey]

McDonald's is going to get more and more expensive regardless of whether it pays its employees more or not. That's capitalism. I would rather they use some of that money to pay their employees better. Than into some wealthy pencil-pusher's pocket. But maybe that's just me.

Please explain this statement to me.