The Dark Knight Montoya was a pleasant surprise...

[Crook]

Well in that case, they should have left the name as Montoya. You don't necessarily have to sacrifice her true loyalty to the law, and you have the benefit of "improving" the character.

Depending on the theme of the third film, she could have also been used as a character who redeems herself, thereby developing into the character we're more familiar with.

 

[Octoberist]

Ramirez was shady and corrupt, but at the sametime...I can't label her as a bad person. Made some poor choices, hung out with the wrong crowd, to 'help out her mother', but still. I don't know.

 

[CaptainClown]

I honestly like Rameriez because you can kill her and its ok. Montoya its not as cool.

 

[Crook]

...

 

[CaptainClown]

thats right I said it.

 

[paec_djinn]

I actually was wondering after reading Dark Victory recently why they didn't name her Lopez (the female detective Gordon assigns to find the Hangman killer). I know Lopez was a good cop as well, but has she been in other comics to give her more of a back story? Just wondering because it could have been a nod to the comics.

 

[wootbaby]

But why would they? If your point is about race, I think it offensive to reduce people, even characters in movies, to their respective races.

that's disingenuous. truth is, the only reason why people are making the connection in the first place is they're both young hispanic female cops. so saying blah blah reduce to race is just baiting. we know race plays a part, it's not racist to acknowledge talk about it

wuertz, as far as I know isn't hispanic and he's more crooked than ramirez so I hardly think it's a statement on hispanics. also Nestor Carbonell, the mayor is a pretty decent guy and a powerful/smart one. pretty damn brave to march down main street and give a big eulogy when he knew he was joker's next villain. so again dont think it's a statement on race

they made it ramirez instead of montoya as a "2-fer." first it's a nod to a popular (animation) character and second it's a decently interesting roll for a hispanic female actor in a male-dominated movie. the movie is already a million hours long, they didn't have room for another major female montoya running around but ramirez is better than some token who doesn't do anything interesting in the movie and is just there to as affirmative action. it's actually pretty sensitive they put that part in

and those who missed it, ramirez says she had to take mob money to hospitalize her mother... who knows... it could be another crook trying to palm the guilt on something else but could be legit. she definitely is a rat and a snitch, telling the mob how to get to rachel and dent... that's the lowest of the low so no sympathy for her character too bad harvey didn't put a bullet through her head

 

[Katsuro]

I'm not making this about race.

Comics: Latina woman. Cop. Good.
TDK: Latina woman. Cop. Bad.

All I was saying that if they wanted to, they could have easily swapped those 2 differences to make a nod to one of the more famous characters in the lore. I don't know much easier I can explain it.

So in other words, they should've changed the race/gender of the second bad cop, and shoehorned Montoya into it? Why? Ramirez's only role in the film was as one of the crooked cops, so if you made someone else the crooked cop, and made her into Montoya, what purpose would she serve?

It's not like Nolan to cram characters into his movies just for the sake of them being there.

wuertz, as far as I know isn't hispanic and he's more crooked than ramirez so I hardly think it's a statement on hispanics. also Nestor Carbonell, the mayor is a pretty decent guy and a powerful/smart one. pretty damn brave to march down main street and give a big eulogy when he knew he was joker's next villain. so again dont think it's a statement on race

You're completely missing the point. The reason it's kinda racist is because you're reducing a character to nothing more than her race and gender, as if the character is no more than that. They're both hispanic female cops, but that's the only similarity they share. Nobody confused Wuertz with Harvey Bullock, and they were both fat white cops. Nobody confused D.A. Finch from Batman Begins with Dent, even though they were both white District Attournies.

So yeah, it's kinda racist to assume that since two characters are the same race, that they're basically the same character. Ramirez and Montoya are two completely seperate characters who happen to be of the same race, and have quite a big difference between them (what with one being crooked and all).

 

[Crook]

So in other words, they should've changed the race/gender of the second bad cop, and shoehorned Montoya into it? Why? Ramirez's only role in the film was as one of the crooked cops, so if you made someone else the crooked cop, and made her into Montoya, what purpose would she serve?

The same purpose that "good" white cop did. Just another member of Gordon's team along for the ride, who has a tough side. Hell, she could have been the one standing guard in front of Joker. Montoya's not exactly a fragile girl.

It's not like Nolan to cram characters into his movies just for the sake of them being there.

Oh, well then I'd love to hear the purpose of Zsasz in BB, and Scarecrow in TDK.

You're completely missing the point. The reason it's kinda racist is because you're reducing a character to nothing more than her race and gender, as if the character is no more than that. They're both hispanic female cops, but that's the only similarity they share. Nobody confused Wuertz with Harvey Bullock, and they were both fat white cops. Nobody confused D.A. Finch from Batman Begins with Dent, even though they were both white District Attournies.

So yeah, it's kinda racist to assume that since two characters are the same race, that they're basically the same character. Ramirez and Montoya are two completely seperate characters who happen to be of the same race, and have quite a big difference between them (what with one being crooked and all).

It's fortunate that I noted these differences, and didn't resort to requesting a simple name change then.

 

[BatoutofHell]

that's disingenuous. truth is, the only reason why people are making the connection in the first place is they're both young hispanic female cops. so saying blah blah reduce to race is just baiting. we know race plays a part, it's not racist to acknowledge talk about it

You've missed my point. Of COURSE it isn't racist to state the obvious; the character is Latino. Its just that the suggestion that it could have easily been white, that introducing another race into it and making it somewhat of a theme, seemed like the race of the character was his concern. The post appeared to suggest that the problem wasn't the character or the name, but that the crooked cop was a Latino.

Obviously hes since responded and I see that that wasn't his point, and I understand now that I was wrong and that wasn't his point at all, but I'm not going to go back and edit myself.

Anyway Cook, if I came across as some dick trying to start a fight about race, I apologize, I misunderstood what you were saying. As far as Scarecrow in TDK, I'd say continuity and entertainment value. Can't argue Zsasz though.

 

[TNC9852002]

People must be watching this movie with their eyes closed and their ears covered...

-TNC

 

[Batman01]

Actually, I thought Detective Stephens (the Detective watching the Joker in the interrogation room) was Bullock at first.

Nobody confused Wuertz with Harvey Bullock, and they were both fat white cops.

(vVv)

 

[Sharkboy]

Even though it is quite incorrect to stereotype, I noticed how this film played on sterotypes a bit. Anna Ramirez was a latino cop, a latino FEMALE cop. Thanks to my own sterotyping, and plenty of other people's. I would never have pegged her to be the corrupt cop, i didn't believe Dent when he had pegged her either, so it was a nice, if a little heartbreaking to see, she was responsible in some way for rachel's death.

The same thing happened on the barge, I expected the black convict to save his skin (im a bit ashamed to say) but in a very heartlifting moment he chucks the detonator out the window, "let me do what you should have done 10 minutes ago" brilliant stuff.

Its a nice little running theme in the film and i hope more people pick it up.

 

[STC]

I'd like to see Montoya and Bullock brought in the 3rd movie to head the "Batman Task Force".

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Why is it that the only Latino/a person in TDK has to be crooked?

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

pointless thread, I wish Montoya was in the film, I didnt really like Ramirez much.

 

[CaptainClown]

Switch the names, it doesn't matter much.

 

[Stringer]

Why is it that the only Latino/a person in TDK has to be crooked?

Why is it the two black people in the movie(Loeb and Gambol) get killed off in the first half of the movie?

 

[CaptainClown]

Why is it the two black people in the movie(Loeb and Gambol) get killed off in the first half of the movie?

Why is it Fox is smarter then Bruce Wayne?

 

[Stringer]

Why is it Fox is smarter then Bruce Wayne?

Why was Lau a snitch, I mean a "squeel"?

 

[Stringer]

Double post

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Why is it the two black people in the movie(Loeb and Gambol) get killed off in the first half of the movie?

Why is it Fox is smarter then Bruce Wayne?

t:

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Why was Lau a snitch?

Why is the only Russian Character in TDK a drug dealer?

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

and ramirez was crooked

You mean she walked funny or didn't have proper posture? t:t: ha ha just messin' with ya.