Mutant-phobia: a Savage Hypocrisy

[Darthphere]

And as usual, you've found the core purpose of this thread.

Im perceptive like that.

 

[The Question]

In the JLA/Avengers crossover, weren't the FOH about to lynch a kid who just turned out to have a skin disease or something?

A genetic skin disorder. I/E, a mutation. He was a mutant. Not all mutants have powers. In fact, most don't.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Anti-mutant mentality is like any other prejudice in the Marvel or any other Universe.....indefensible.....

I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why some self-proclaimed "Christians" can hate Jews when their beloved Jesus was king of the Jews??....and I never will.....prejudice = ignorance and to look for rationale within the confines of said prejudice...of any prejudice... is about as productive as looking for the Bread aisle at the local Home Depot!

I'm not trying to find logic in racism; I gave up on that back when Reagan was in office. I'm using logic to point out that this particular form of prejudice is the most ignorant imaginable. The only real-world comparison I have is someone who hates black people getting collagen injected into their lips, getting hip implants & then going to a tanning salon. You hate us for our natural appearance, but it's okay to try to look more like us.

 

[Norman Osborn]

The main thing is, how do people distinguish a mutant from a person who just got his or her powers.

My thought on this has always been "the general public has no problem with super-powered individuals"....until they find out they're Mutants"...it's not as if they can go out in the street, look up in the sky and see a guy flying and know he's a mutant!.......

.....if Reed came out of the closet on National Television and proclaimed his whole family had been living a lie and they were actually all mutants....they might as well move in with Xavier, they'd be outcasts..."because" of the prejudice that exists....a prejudice that has no correlation with logic....as is the case with all prejudices.

 

[Chris Wallace]

My thought on this has always been "the general public has no problem with super-powered individuals"....until they find out they're Mutants"...it's not as if they can go out in the street, look up in the sky and see a guy flying and know he's a mutant!.......

.....if Reed came out of the closet on National Television and proclaimed his whole family had been living a lie and they were actually all mutants....they might as well move in with Xavier, they'd be outcasts..."because" of the prejudice that exists....a prejudice that has no correlation with logic....as is the case with all prejudices.

The best support of that theory is Ultimate; in which the general public by & large assumes Spider-Man is a mutant, & they treat him accordingly.

 

[roach]

it boils down to ignorance.People are told mutants are the next step in evolution and are gonna enslave/kill off humanity....much like every other step in human evolution.Who would you be cool with....the guy who was bitten by a radioactive spider or the person who's kids will one day rule over/genocide your kids?????

 

[Chris Wallace]

Well, since I don't believe in evolution, that wouldn't carry any weight w/me. Plus, if that were true, my kids would more likely be one of them.
And if evolution is for real, why are monkeys still here?

 

[The Question]

Because we didn't evolve from the speicese of monkies that are around today. We evolved from the same speicese that all other primates did. However, our higher brain functions are a bit more developed, and thus we are more capable of building tools and machines and the such. Which is why we are the dominant life forms on the planet.

 

[Chris Wallace]

And isn't there just as much reason-if not more-to fear not only the guy who says he's an Asgardian God, but also those who ally themselves with him? None of whom, I might add, go around announcing where they got their powers from?

 

[Herr Logan]

Because he was, at one time, a human being.

Dude. You're thinking logically when trying to understand the mentality of racists. Racism, by it's very nature, is illogical. Because mutants were born the way they were, the FOH types see them as not human.

Anti-mutant mentality is like any other prejudice in the Marvel or any other Universe.....indefensible.....

I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why some self-proclaimed "Christians" can hate Jews when their beloved Jesus was king of the Jews??....and I never will.....prejudice = ignorance and to look for rationale within the confines of said prejudice...of any prejudice... is about as productive as looking for the Bread aisle at the local Home Depot!

These statements are both true and untrue.

The basic fear of mutants in the Marvel Universe is justifiable. Mutants aren't defined by a skin color or a nationality or any of the completely irrelevant and useless categorizations we have in the real world; they are creatures who are mostly human in their psychology and may possess incredible power that normal humans can't defend against. Power tends to corrupt humans, which is why their human psychology is a threat when backed by mutant powers. In the real world, if I was President, I'd probably very strongly consider, if not outright propose, a mutant registration act or something similar. I don't trust humans, and I trust humans with power even less, so that's why it's perfectly right to fear mutants, and it isn't mere racism.

However...

The premise of this thread is that humans who came by their superpowers through artificial means are treated better than mutants, because they weren't born with a permanent status that differs genetically from the norm. That makes it racism in those cases, which clouds the issue of what is an acceptable attitude towards mutants. Personally, I wouldn't treat humans with artificially granted superpowers any differently than mutants; they're essentially the same level of threat.
J. Jonah Jameson, as an example, condemns all masked vigilantes (even Captain America to a degree, who doesn't even technically have superhuman abilities), and even non-masked vigilantes for what they do, not what they are genetically. Despite his psychotic vendetta against Spider-Man and tendency to make up stories, I'd say his behavior with regards to superheroes is a far more rational one than any human who fears mutants. If you fear all superpowered beings equally, or in proportion to their respective power levels and abilities, then it's absolutely not racism. If you see a person holding or using a gun, you fear them, whether or not they're aiming it at you. That's not prejudice, that's just common sense. You can't see the superpowered status of all mutants and enhanced humans in the Marvel Universe, but then again, you don't see all the guns people in real life are hiding somewhere, either.

It's perfectly okay to fear mutants, but that doesn't justify how people treat them. In real life not only do guns have to be registered for legal ownership, but high-level martial artists are required to register their bodies as deadly weapons. That makes a mutant registration act, barring anything further than requiring mutants to register their powers for the sake of the criminal justice system under penalty of jail/prison time, reasonable. Lynching and attacking mutants is, of course, not reasonable. There's a line between prejudice and responsibly used caution.

 

[Chris Wallace]

That makes the most sense of any post I've ever read from you. However, I would never support mutant registration for one simple reason; it violates their civil liberties. No one is born a high-level martial artist. You have to undergo years of rigorous training for that-of your own volition. A gun is purchased. A driver's license has to be earned. All of these exist for the sake of accountability for actions you may take with privileges that you have chosen to pursue. Mutants don't have a choice. And since nobody's trying to get rid of all the blackbelts, drivers & legal gun-owners, they don't have to face the same problems.

 

[Varient]

(smile)
They should do a story where a mutant with a beta or better ability lies to the world and sez they got their powers thru being in the afterburner of one of the Hulks gamma irradiated farts,... and to save their life they had to be transfused with the blood of canadians - ergo their super powers.

 

[Herr Logan]

That makes the most sense of any post I've ever read from you.

I know. I tried not to use too many big words this time.

 

[Herr Logan]

That makes the most sense of any post I've ever read from you. However, I would never support mutant registration for one simple reason; it violates their civil liberties. No one is born a high-level martial artist. You have to undergo years of rigorous training for that-of your own volition. A gun is purchased. A driver's license has to be earned. All of these exist for the sake of accountability for actions you may take with privileges that you have chosen to pursue. Mutants don't have a choice. And since nobody's trying to get rid of all the blackbelts, drivers & legal gun-owners, they don't have to face the same problems.

Yeah, well, if I were in charge, there'd be a few changes to the list of "civil rights." But you gotta believe me, it would be a benevolent dictatorship, not a mean and scary one.

Provided there was a way to test for mutancy (which there is in the Marvel Universe, since the Sentinels can detect them without even taking a DNA sample), I'd have every human tested for it as infants and again as adolescents. It would be as humane and dignified as possible, as would any action taken toward lawful citizens. Those who tested positive for mutancy would be made to register, and the test results and files would be confidential between the individual and the government doctors, unless the mutant traits are a danger to the public (ex., Omega Red's death pheromones that harm everyone near him, etc.), in which case the information would be not only publically available but distributed in the area in which the mutant resides, and measures would be taken to contain/control the harmful effects. I'd say it's similar to how information on local sex offenders is available in our world, but under my administration, convicted sex offenders would never come into contact with the lawful citizenry, except perhaps visits from opposite sides of a several foot thick unbreakable Plexiglass divider. The prison colonies for dangerous and violent offenders would be pretty much completely cut off from the rest of the world.
Mutants with powers (not all mutants have actual "powers") would be taught to control their abilities, and those with useful powers would be offered special positions in law enforcement and military, although they'll be closely monitored at all times (as would all armed cops or soldiers, under my rule). They would not be compelled to join, however.

Some powers surface at different times, and a genetic test couldn't tell you what powers people have, so advanced, foolproof lie detectors, I'd have constructed for use in the criminal justice system and all other areas where finding truth is essential, would determine whether the mutant was lying about not having known about a power that they didn't report and test earlier. I know, it seems unjust, but the exact same process would apply for an enhanced human who received powers artificially. The exact same lie detectors would be used to determine guilt in all criminal trials.

Everyday life would generally function as it does now, but all areas and situations where the safety of the citizenry (including all superhumans) is concerned would involve meticulous investigation.

Before anyone bothers to tell me that this plan for a better society would never work because the people in charge are just as subject to corruption and incompetence as everyone else, I know already. I'm just proposing what I think of when I imagine a safer society, and freely admitting it's just another implausible utopian ideal.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I know. I tried not to use too many big words this time.

Oh, hee-hee.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

I think the big fear of mutants comes from the fact that they will phase humanity out as the primary life form on earth.

i think thats a very good point.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

This difference is not really all that strange.


It´s a lot harder to accept mutants since the neighbor down the street might be one and have the power to peer through walls while you shower (or something like that).

another good point

 

[MyPokerShirt]

A genetic skin disorder. I/E, a mutation. He was a mutant. Not all mutants have powers. In fact, most don't.

Nope, you're wrong. (this isnt the first time me and you have started a convo like this)

technically a genetic problem could be considered a mutation, but also it may be because of inheriting recessive genes - i.e. they havnt mutated to that genetic disease. this is how all real world genetic diseases are passed down. that is, theyre not mutations.


plus in the marvel world your only a mutant if you have the mutant gene. the kid with the skin disorder just plain wouldnt.
this discussion (Seperate to the threads focus, to be honest) is one that can be had with spider-girl. daughter of spider-man, inherited spider powers, technically a mutant on our terms but not in the marvel world - no mutant gene.


And no, most mutants in the marvel universe have not been shown to have mutations that arent powers. only really the morlocks and a few select individuals were shown like this. even if the power was useless (like, if you ask me, beak and his crappy way of flying) it was still mostly a power.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

the main answer to this thread is probably writer inconsistancy. spider-man has been hunted as a mutant and mistrusted but not all the time. mutants were mainly hated becos of magneto's rantings on replacing the human race and the fact anyone could be one. the heroes generally have not, its just writers wanted to include it in the x-men books and so made those heroes hated as well. nevermind the fact its always been pretty much ignored in the avengers books. with over40years of continuity, such oddities as those brought up by this thread are to be expected.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Yeah, well, if I were in charge, there'd be a few changes to the list of "civil rights." But you gotta believe me, it would be a benevolent dictatorship, not a mean and scary one.

Provided there was a way to test for mutancy (which there is in the Marvel Universe, since the Sentinels can detect them without even taking a DNA sample), I'd have every human tested for it as infants and again as adolescents. It would be as humane and dignified as possible, as would any action taken toward lawful citizens. Those who tested positive for mutancy would be made to register, and the test results and files would be confidential between the individual and the government doctors, unless the mutant traits are a danger to the public (ex., Omega Red's death pheromones that harm everyone near him, etc.), in which case the information would be not only publically available but distributed in the area in which the mutant resides, and measures would be taken to contain/control the harmful effects. I'd say it's similar to how information on local sex offenders is available in our world, but under my administration, convicted sex offenders would never come into contact with the lawful citizenry, except perhaps visits from opposite sides of a several foot thick unbreakable Plexiglass divider. The prison colonies for dangerous and violent offenders would be pretty much completely cut off from the rest of the world.
Mutants with powers (not all mutants have actual "powers") would be taught to control their abilities, and those with useful powers would be offered special positions in law enforcement and military, although they'll be closely monitored at all times (as would all armed cops or soldiers, under my rule). They would not be compelled to join, however.

Some powers surface at different times, and a genetic test couldn't tell you what powers people have, so advanced, foolproof lie detectors, I'd have constructed for use in the criminal justice system and all other areas where finding truth is essential, would determine whether the mutant was lying about not having known about a power that they didn't report and test earlier. I know, it seems unjust, but the exact same process would apply for an enhanced human who received powers artificially. The exact same lie detectors would be used to determine guilt in all criminal trials.

Everyday life would generally function as it does now, but all areas and situations where the safety of the citizenry (including all superhumans) is concerned would involve meticulous investigation.

Before anyone bothers to tell me that this plan for a better society would never work because the people in charge are just as subject to corruption and incompetence as everyone else, I know already. I'm just proposing what I think of when I imagine a safer society, and freely admitting it's just another implausible utopian ideal.

The only problem is that everyone who had mutant powers would not use them to violate the law or harm his/her fellow citizen, & many would likely view this program as treating them as though they would.

 

[roach]

That makes the most sense of any post I've ever read from you. However, I would never support mutant registration for one simple reason; it violates their civil liberties.

It is easy to say that but look at what Magneto has done to the Marvel universe. If I lived in a world where my neighbor could destroy my city by manifesting his powers I may be thinking differently.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Ironically, he is what he is because someone else believed in separation of races. But Magneto is one man; he doesn't represent what all mutants are. My mind goes to the movies on that one; bear in mind they're both from the same studio & theoretically could co-exist.
The FF subdue a villain who they helped to create, (who initially only threatened them) causing immense property damage & endangering the public in the process, & they get a party on a yacht.
The X-Men save all the world leaders &, because 1 mutant attacks the President, he signs off on an order to enter, interrogate, arrest & detain a school full of children who may or may not be mutants-with no proof whatsoever that they have anything to do with the attack. Oh, yeah-they DIDN'T!

 

[roach]

Ironically, he is what he is because someone else believed in separation of races. But Magneto is one man; he doesn't represent what all mutants are.

However in the Marvel universe when it comes to mutantkind more people think of Magneto than anyone else. Think of terrorism and I can pretty much guess you are thinking about Bin Laden. It is because he is in the public mindset. How often is Xavier in the public????? How often does the public see the X-men fighting for mutant and human rights?????

 

[roach]

The FF subdue a villain who they helped to create, (who initially only threatened them) causing immense property damage & endangering the public in the process, & they get a party on a yacht.
The X-Men save all the world leaders &, because 1 mutant attacks the President, he signs off on an order to enter, interrogate, arrest & detain a school full of children who may or may not be mutants-with no proof whatsoever that they have anything to do with the attack. Oh, yeah-they DIDN'T!

It's all perception.
Does the average person know that guy in armor that the FF fought was Doom?????
Does the average person know the X-men thwarted a terror attack at the Statue of Liberty?????
It seems to me that the President didnt even know who the X-men were in X2.

 

[Chris Wallace]

It's all perception.
Does the average person know that guy in armor that the FF fought was Doom?????
Does the average person know the X-men thwarted a terror attack at the Statue of Liberty?????
It seems to me that the President didnt even know who the X-men were in X2.

He didn't, or he wouldn't have asked Xavier who they were.
Yes, it is all about perception; that's the whole point. These people are CHOOSING ot perceive one group of superhumans differently from another.