Name Your DC Character Models

[Rorschach II]

sure. But another female character who is supposed to be a trained martial artist or a master of combat (otherwise unpowered), should really be drawn that way. In Marvel for example, I expect Elektra to be quite a bit more toned than she usually is.

Even if some people might find that unnattractive, there are enough delicate flowers with big breasts and butt in the DC universe, that I'm sure we can allow some variety in how the women are drawn. Different guys are attracted to different things. I don't really like the porn-star body (or porn-star poses) that makes up 100% of how women are drawn in the comics, so I don't feel thats catered to in superhero comics. Some men will be turned on by very muscly women. Others by an athletic physique with smaller but still shapely breasts (like Cassandra Cain Batgirl before her recent breast enlargement). There should be a range. Its when every single female character looks exactly the same but with different coloured hair (and they do), it starts to get a bit lame. I'm entirely happy for there to still be half a dozen female characters who are just the typical porn-star type-body (at least one on every team), but not every female character. Wonder Woman should be attractive but still quite powerful looking (thats how I remember early wonder woman, and Lynda Carter fits the bill quite well), and other female characters really should have appropriate physiques (Big Barda is one who should be quite a bit beefier).

I agree with every word you wrote, which is why I prefer comic book characters to be somewhat based on real people. When artists are left to their own devices they (usually) give all the women porn star physiques and make all the men really buff with a strong jaw. Don't get me wrong, my models would require some adjustments (Marilyn Monroe didn't have the Power Girl breasts or muscles and I don't believe Gregory Peck was as buff as a plausible Batman would be), but it would work out better if the characters - especially the females - were based on real people in order to add some variety other than costume, hair color, and eye color.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

References for more realistic proportions are always good, but it's easy to go too far and rely too much on references. Bryan Hitch, Alex Ross, and now Gary Frank (in his upcoming Action Comics run) are all great artists, but they rely too much on references and celebrity faces. I don't like opening a comic and thinking, "Hey, why is Christopher Reeve playing Superman in the comics?" or "Why is Sam Jackson commanding SHIELD?" Celebrity references are too jarring and take me out of the comic in the same way that big-name actors make it harder to relate with a character in a film because you know, in the back of your mind, "That's not really (whoever), that's Tom Cruise." The best actor in the world can only sell a role so far in spite of his own face; similarly, comic artists can only take photo references so far before their art starts looking like a smorgasbord of celebrity faces that distracts the reader from the story at hand.

 

[Rorschach II]

I agree that you shouldn't go too far, but I don't think Alex Ross really does. He seems to use his friends and family more than anything.

 

[Mladen]

And then there's Greg Land, the tracing king of comics.

 

[Mladen]

Oh, and he traces other people's art as well:

There's a difference between photo reference, and outright stealing by tracing. He's got things matching to exact detail (web-rings on spidey's suit). If he was taking these photos himself, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But with the Land method, ANYBODY could be a star comic-book artist if they did this too, which is why it annoys me. I know there've been threads on this before, but I think its relevent, since its entirely possible to take 'media referencing' WAY too far.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Damn, I knew Land used references heavily, but I didn't know he stole **** that much.

 

[batnkevlar]

About Supeman's build: sure, we don't have to make him that buff... but he is SUPERman, and we equate strength with muscles...

and I agree that all the women don't need huge knockers... only some do... but by the same convention that Superman doesn't need huge muscles, is the arguement that Black Canary, Wonder Woman, and Zatanna can be butt ugly, since obviously it wouldn't interfere with kickin ass or using magic...

as a reference, I would use Tom Welling's face and build (or maybe Christoper Reeve face on TW's body) for Superman and Christian Bale for Batman...

 

[Rorschach II]

About Supeman's build: sure, we don't have to make him that buff... but he is SUPERman, and we equate strength with muscles...

and I agree that all the women don't need huge knockers... only some do... but by the same convention that Superman doesn't need huge muscles, is the arguement that Black Canary, Wonder Woman, and Zatanna can be butt ugly, since obviously it wouldn't interfere with kickin ass or using magic...

as a reference, I would use Tom Welling's face and build (or maybe Christoper Reeve face on TW's body) for Superman and Christian Bale for Batman...

I think Superman should be buff but not massive.

 

[batnkevlar]

I think Superman should be buff but not massive.

Tom Welling's build fits Superman...

 

[Mladen]

About Supeman's build: sure, we don't have to make him that buff... but he is SUPERman, and we equate strength with muscles...

and I agree that all the women don't need huge knockers... only some do... but by the same convention that Superman doesn't need huge muscles, is the arguement that Black Canary, Wonder Woman, and Zatanna can be butt ugly, since obviously it wouldn't interfere with kickin ass or using magic...

Its not quite the same comparison because the two sexes are treated entirely different in american comics... The primary function of a male superhero is to kick-ass, to act as a stand-in for the reader to project themselves into the story. His body can be toned down (notice how spiderman works even though he has immense natural strength). The primary function of the female superhero is to look good (which is why we're treated to nice ass and breast shots whenever girls are in a fight.... girls fighting is SEXY). The problem in that is once any trait of the woman is percieved (by the writers/editors/artists/or fans) to be taking away from the 'sexiness', the sexiness wins. If a girl has muscles, they'll be toned down. If her outfit is practical but not sexy enough, they'll make it skin-tight with hole cut out for cleavage.

My issue is that attractiveness is subjective and most people are attracted to different things. Some girls like the typical hero-man build, others like your more Orlando Bloomish effeminate body. Most preferred body-types for girls are catered to. Not so for men. Comics consistently make sure all of the women look the same (with different coloured hair and eyes), because they're afraid that they'll cease to be attractive and lose their primary function in the story (looking good and getting kidnapped). I personally don't like grotesquely proportioned women (breasts the size of your head, and a waist so narrow you could pick her up like a wine-glass)... But my tastes are rarely catered to in comics.

I find Cassandra Cain Batgirl very sexy (before they changed her to be less asian, taller, bigger bust, and skinner waist), yet she really looks like she could kick ass, and her outfit is designed to HIDE her skin and emphasise the form... kind of like Michelle Pfifeffefr's Catwoman outfit.

I'm not saying that women in comics shouldn't be attractive (because most of the men are pretty attractive as well).
Attractiveness is essential to being an acceptable 'hero' in our society, especially since so many of these characters are pretty much gods. People are shallow. For something like superheroes, if they're not in some way attractive, its hard for us to root for them ('ugly' heroes tend to only ever be in teams).

I want to see a range, and more tastes catered to, not just the Pamela Anderson grotesque body-shape type. We don't have to cater to EVERY taste (I'm certainly not saying Batman should be more like Gary Busey)

(I'm Batman)

 

[Rorschach II]

Tom Welling's build fits Superman...

I agree.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I think Superman should be buff but not massive.

I think Superman should be massive, not buff. 6'4" or 6'5", ginormous, but not that toned.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Damn, I knew Land used references heavily, but I didn't know he stole **** that much.

Oh hell, I did. He's a piece of crap, and I have no idea why people dig his work.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Because it's purty. I've never liked him much myself, though. I always found his art a bit stiff. Now I know why: he's cobbling it together from other people's work.

 

[Mee]

Really? I never knew of that connection between Selina and Falcone. I guess Monica Bellucci would be good, then.

Haven't read Dark Victory eh Corp?

For shame.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I have read it. The trade's on my shelf at home, actually. I don't remember it as well as The Long Halloween though.

 

[BrianWilly]

I generally don't imagine DC characters as any real life people in my mind, to be honest.

Well, Adam Garcia as Kyle Rayner, probably.

And Mandy Moore as Mary Marvel.

Austin St. John, the OG Red Ranger, as Captain Marvel.

And oh yeah, somehow it got ingrained into my head that Ted and Tommy Grant are Sylvester Stallone and Milo Ventimiglia. It doesn't actually...fit too well, but it's in there and I can't get rid of it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Haha, the Red Ranger as Captain Marvel?

Anyway, I mostly think more about body types than actual people when I think of comic characters. I imagine Kyle Rayner as having a somewhat skinny body, since he's just a guy who got roped into being a superhero, and his powers aren't all that physical in nature. The Flashes would likely have runner's physiques for obvious reasons--lean, wiry, and agile. Aquaman should have that V-shape that most swimmers wind up with--broad shoulders tapered down to a somewhat narrow waist and powerful but not huge legs. That sort of thing.

 

[The Leaguer]

I'm so damn f***ing tired of artists drawing Superman to look like Christopher Reeve. This week's Action Comics pissed me off. Superman, when drawn like Reeve, looks completely ******ed.

 

[Purple Man]

For shame.

Am I the only one with the Identity Crisis hardcover? Rags Morales uses some great celebrity likenesses.

Don't have it with me at the moment so I can't post the names. Sorry.

 

[Rorschach II]

The single biggest reason for artists to use real people as inspiration is the way so many of them draw women. Check out Timm's "The New Adventures Of Batman and Robin" to see one of the biggest offenders in this area. I know it's animation and not comics...but a lot of that same stuff - same exact character model with different hair/eye/lip/skin color and outfit - is a problem in comics, though usually not as bad.

 

[BrianWilly]

I'll never forgive Rags for considering Freddie Prinze Jr. as Kyle Rayner.

 

[batnkevlar]

I consider Milo Ventimgilia as Kyle Rayner character model...

 

[Rorschach II]

Really?

He's my Nightwing pick.

 

[BrianWilly]

I consider Milo Ventimgilia as Kyle Rayner character model...

He always looks so though. I imagine Kyle to be a bit more .