Neon Genesis Evangelion Mega Thread

They explicitly say in 3.0 they wanted to retrieve Eva-01 to power the Wunder and Shinji being recovered was not expected to happen. How can they execute him 15 years ago when he vanished and they think he's dead? Lol. He and Rei were absorbed into Eva-01 (like he was in episode 21 of the original series) and presumed dead for the duration of the time skip.

None of this is clear in the film. I've read summaries that said the remnants of the government had Shinji imprisoned in Earth's orbit as punishment for starting near third impact.

They also don't know if it's really Shinji. This why he's labeled "BM03-S. Ikari???" on his foot. He's an unknown liability that they weren't expecting to have aboard in the middle of a chaotic combat situation, and if he got into an Eva or stolen he'd be a walking potential disaster, as he ended up being. So they put the choker on him like they do with Asuka and Mari while they wait to figure out what to do with him. But they were deciding to be merciful and keep him under security while slowing starting to explain the situation, but they were interrupted. NERV was trying to retrieve him actually. Did you miss the entire several minute sequence of the Mark.09 stealing him from the Wunder for Gendo?

Yeah putting an explosive collar on you is a real serene and calm way to handle hormonal teenagers. Misato and the others had plenty of time to respectfully and calmly tell Shinji what happened. ALSO Shinji could've stayed on WILLE. His treatment by WUNDER is what provoked him to leave and go with the Rei clone. So instead of NERV trying to retrieve him, WUNDER got Unit 01 and Shinji and gave NERV exactly what they needed to jumpstart the apocalypse and Human Instrumentality. IDIOTS.

Misato apologizes to Shinji in the final movie for allowing all the blame to be put on him. He was a child and her subordinate and kept them alive through several battles, so she takes all the responsibility on herself to support him. This doesn't come out of the blue either because in the third film she was unable to pull the DSS trigger, so she had conflicted feelings and guilt there.

And this is my problem. In the fourth movie people actually try to help Shinji and offer him solace and compassion and treat him with respect and BASIC HUMAN CIVILITY. And by doing that, Shinji is healed and finally gets back into a stable mental state where he wants to help him. Treating him like an object and threatening to explode his head is garbage and Misato should've been smart enough to know that. There is no excuse for how he was treated like a sack of dren in the third movie. It's bad writing and bad storytelling. Misato may have issues. She may not be an infallible, but she's not an idiot. She's not stupid. In the third movie she embodied those traits. Asuka acting hot blooded and angry with him makes sense because she's Asuka and that's always how she is with Shinji. NOT Misato.

She was NOT planning on treating him that way without explanation. Again, she, Ritsuko and Sakura were right in the middle of telling him what the deal was when Rei Q/Mark.09 attacked at the worst possible time to steal him. Once he starts to understand what he did later, he starts to view her actions as understandable and sas he deserves the choker.

Her plan was trash and her plan failed. She didn't do that though did she? She had plenty of time to explain things and offer him an explanation. She didn't and she threatened to blow up his head. Shinji even voluntarily offered to help at the beginning of the third movie. He was confused and had no idea what was going on. Misato should've known better.

Misato is competent, but never infallible. She is an alcoholic with crippling daddy and intimacy issues and Captain Ahab tendencies against the Angels that causes her to use teenagers in her vendetta. This is true across both versions. A Misato who still starts at that setting then
we add the guilt of putting Shini in the Apocalypse Robot, dead Kaji, an estranged son and the stress of leading a rag tag rebellion for 14 years
it's not a leap to see a colder Misato.

None of these are valid reasons for how she treated Shinji in 3.0.

Kowaru stops it, but we are shown that damage was done before he was able to do so. The shot of him throwing the Spear of Cassius at Radiant Giant Eva-01 shows the surrounding landscape to have taken on the red core effect that we see in the post-time skip films. Sakura's father and Midori's family are implied to have been killed in this event. The proper Third Impact that occurred later is implied to only have happened because of Shinjis earlier actions making it possible to have occurred. Without his screw up at the end of 2.22, the door wouldn't have been opened for the 12th Angel to begin 3rd Impact.

This was basically Anno regressing to fan fiction level writing, much like with Rei and Mari in fourth movie.

Shinji needed two different spears to change reality; both types in 3.33 were Spears of Longinus, the same type, which resulted in a different configuration. The difference between films is Shinji's mental state. In 3.33 he's overcome with guilt and desperate to make himself feel better, so he ignores everyone else's advice (including Kowaru) to recklessly use the spears he doesn't know how to use. And he makes things worse. In this film, he's in a better mental state and is actively collaborating with everyone and paying attention to their needs and advice. Going it alone screwed things up for himself and others in the last film, working and healing together saved the day in this film.

This isn't my problem. My problem is how in the third movie they set up the idea that a spear of longinus can rewrite reality in such an off-handed lazy manner. The idea is not properly set up or executed.

I mean watching the documentary that was released with the final film, it's no wonder why the Rebuild films had so many problems. The way Anno treats his staff is basically workplace abuse.
 
None of this is clear in the film. I've read summaries that said the remnants of the government had Shinji imprisoned in Earth's orbit as punishment for starting near third impact.

I'm starting to think you only read summaries and did not actually watch the movie. Or if so, not very carefully. Because Eva-01 is retrieved from space by WILLIE, not Shinji. You are reading summaries that say the Earth's government put him there, but you are not citing the film. In the film the container Eva-01 is in has a NERV logo on it. So NERV (run by Gendo) is keeping it there. Nowhere is it said in the actual film that governments put it there. Shinji was not being punished there because everyone thought he was gone. Why would they punish someone they thought was dead?

Cite the film itself, not second hand summaries.


Yeah putting an explosive collar on you is a real serene and calm way to handle hormonal teenagers. Misato and the others had plenty of time to respectfully and calmly tell Shinji what happened. ALSO Shinji could've stayed on WILLE. His treatment by WUNDER is what provoked him to leave and go with the Rei clone. So instead of NERV trying to retrieve him, WUNDER got Unit 01 and Shinji and gave NERV exactly what they needed to jumpstart the apocalypse and Human Instrumentality. IDIOTS.

They are in the middle of a war zone dude, with Shinji dropped in their lap unexpectedly and they don't even know if it's really him or that he's still capable of being dangerous, or if NERV wants him. So they use the same precautions they use on Asuka and Mari (who just deal with it for the greater good because they know they are inherently dangerous but still need to use the Evas anyway). The hormonal teenager is throwing a tantrum in his confused state and most of the crew is fearful/hateful towards him. Misato put the choker on him to show she had the situation under control. Even then she couldn't pull the trigger when he's stolen, so Midori in the fourth film starts to question her resolve. If not for putting the choker on, the crew probably would have demanded he be executed then and there, which Misato doesn't want. This was the compromise she had to make in the middle of the chaotic situation they were in.

You say they have plenty of time to explain themselves, but keep ignoring the scene where Misato, Ritsuko and Sakura start to explain the situation. You are demonizing them for not doing something which they clearly attempt to do (before they are interrupted), so it's hard to take your stance that they are idiots very seriously.


And this is my problem. In the fourth movie people actually try to help Shinji and offer him solace and compassion and treat him with respect and BASIC HUMAN CIVILITY. And by doing that, Shinji is healed and finally gets back into a stable mental state where he wants to help him. Treating him like an object and threatening to explode his head is garbage and Misato should've been smart enough to know that. There is no excuse for how he was treated like a sack of dren in the third movie. It's bad writing and bad storytelling. Misato may have issues. She may not be an infallible, but she's not an idiot. She's not stupid. In the third movie she embodied those traits. Asuka acting hot blooded and angry with him makes sense because she's Asuka and that's always how she is with Shinji. NOT Misato.

I don't think you understand Misato that much, in any of her incarnations. She's always been a bit crap at dealing with Shinji despite her best intentions. She has always used him as a tool for her revenge against the Angels despite the guilt she feels at doing so, and hurts him in the process. We now have a Misato who carries even more guilt because Shinji caused the Third Impact under her watch because she encouraged him (and then spent the 14 years believing he was dead because of it) and had to make who knows how many difficult decisions that weighed on her soul and watched various members of her team die under her watch (including a big one as revealed by the fourth movie). She's colder and needs to be more pragmatic and shove her feelings down. It's not bad character writing when we look at what her character has always been (both in the old series and the new) and add in the factors we both see and can surmise based on her current situation after 14 years.

Toji, Kensuke and Hikari are not on the frontlines of the battle and Shinji wasn't dropped in their lap while they were under attack from the Nemesis series. Shinji was also able to stay with them for an extended period of time and not less than a day like he was on the Wunder. Your expectations that Misato should behave like them when she doesn't have the time or luxury seems unrealistic.

Her plan was trash and her plan failed. She didn't do that though did she? She had plenty of time to explain things and offer him an explanation. She didn't and she threatened to blow up his head. Shinji even voluntarily offered to help at the beginning of the third movie. He was confused and had no idea what was going on. Misato should've known better.

Are you mixing up scenes? Because when he is first shown to the Wunder bridge crew they are under attack from the Nemesis series and trying to get the Wunder active; it's an "all hands on deck" combat situation. She has no time in that moment to go into details. She makes the time alter with Ritusko, which you seem intent to ignore. So you say she has plenty of time during an instance where she clearly does not, and then don't acknowledge her and Ritsuko taking the time to try to explain everything to Shinji later.

It's like you adopted a "she's an idiot" stance based off of second hand information on the plot and aren't actually analyzing any of her scenes.

This was basically Anno regressing to fan fiction level writing, much like with Rei and Mari in fourth movie.

Um...how?

I mean watching the documentary that was released with the final film, it's no wonder why the Rebuild films had so many problems. The way Anno treats his staff is basically workplace abuse.

This is the first I'm hearing that response about Anno. From what I've read, the staff gave interviews that he was much more open to collaboration and respecting input from others this time around than in the old series.
 
I'm starting to think you only read summaries and did not actually watch the movie. Or if so, not very carefully. Because Eva-01 is retrieved from space by WILLIE, not Shinji. You are reading summaries that say the Earth's government put him there, but you are not citing the film. In the film the container Eva-01 is in has a NERV logo on it. So NERV (run by Gendo) is keeping it there. Nowhere is it said in the actual film that governments put it there. Shinji was not being punished there because everyone thought he was gone. Why would they punish someone they thought was dead?

Cite the film itself, not second hand summaries.

Why would NERV keep it there if they need it? Nothing about what was happening in the opening was clear in the film.

They are in the middle of a war zone dude, with Shinji dropped in their lap unexpectedly and they don't even know if it's really him or that he's still capable of being dangerous, or if NERV wants him. So they use the same precautions they use on Asuka and Mari (who just deal with it for the greater good because they know they are inherently dangerous but still need to use the Evas anyway). The hormonal teenager is throwing a tantrum in his confused state and most of the crew is fearful/hateful towards him. Misato put the choker on him to show she had the situation under control. Even then she couldn't pull the trigger when he's stolen, so Midori in the fourth film starts to question her resolve. If not for putting the choker on, the crew probably would have demanded he be executed then and there, which Misato doesn't want. This was the compromise she had to make in the middle of the chaotic situation they were in.

They know it's him. The idea that it may not be Shinji or if it isn't Shinji is never posed once in the film. The idea that Misato even contemplates blowing up Shinji's head sort of rationalizes his decision to leave then and there.

You say they have plenty of time to explain themselves, but keep ignoring the scene where Misato, Ritsuko and Sakura start to explain the situation. You are demonizing them for not doing something which they clearly attempt to do (before they are interrupted), so it's hard to take your stance that they are idiots very seriously.

Misato or Ritsuko could've greeted him in the room where he's locked up and insulted by Asuka and explained what's happening. The moment he's awoken he's taken prisoner and given an exploding collar. So yeah, there was time to explain the situation. Of course Shinji would leave such a crap show.

I don't think you understand Misato that much, in any of her incarnations. She's always been a bit crap at dealing with Shinji despite her best intentions. She has always used him as a tool for her revenge against the Angels despite the guilt she feels at doing so, and hurts him in the process. We now have a Misato who carries even more guilt because Shinji caused the Third Impact under her watch because she encouraged him (and then spent the 14 years believing he was dead because of it) and had to make who knows how many difficult decisions that weighed on her soul and watched various members of her team die under her watch (including a big one as revealed by the fourth movie). She's colder and needs to be more pragmatic and shove her feelings down. It's not bad character writing when we look at what her character has always been (both in the old series and the new) and add in the factors we both see and can surmise based on her current situation after 14 years.

The movie never really shows or tells us any of that. I'd say she's never been crap at dealing with Shinji at all. Which makes her decisions in the third movie that much more baffling.

Toji, Kensuke and Hikari are not on the frontlines of the battle and Shinji wasn't dropped in their lap while they were under attack from the Nemesis series. Shinji was also able to stay with them for an extended period of time and not less than a day like he was on the Wunder. Your expectations that Misato should behave like them when she doesn't have the time or luxury seems unrealistic.

Wrong. One of the crew members of WILLE even defended Shinji in the fourth movie and explained how the near Third Impact wasn't his fault and he didn't cause it intentionally. It was an unintended consequence of his actions. She did have the time, and she did have the luxury. She simply failed to do it.

This is the first I'm hearing that response about Anno. From what I've read, the staff gave interviews that he was much more open to collaboration and respecting input from others this time around than in the old series.

It's in the documentary.
 
Why would NERV keep it there if they need it? Nothing about what was happening in the opening was clear in the film.

NERV keeping it there and guarding it with the Mk.04 Nemesis series indicates they can get it down again if they need it. Misato's group isn't NERV. They didn't put him there and they are stealing him from NERV. Or more accurately, they are stealing Eva-01. Shinji is not on the agenda and his getting kicked out of Eva-01 is a surprise for them.

Why Gendo waited for them to steal Eva-01 so he can steal Shinji is the actual question. Likely it's because he's at least putting on the pretense he is back under SEELE's thumb and it would be too obvious of a move to bring Eva-01 down and make them suspicious too early. Gendo running circles around everyone and predicting everything is really ridiculous, but that's a separate discussion from the motivations and actions of Misato and her group.

They know it's him. The idea that it may not be Shinji or if it isn't Shinji is never posed once in the film. The idea that Misato even contemplates blowing up Shinji's head sort of rationalizes his decision to leave then and there.

Nope, it is. "Bio-Mass 3. S. Ikari??" is written on his foot. The question marks tell you everything you need to know. As well as Misato herself turning to Ritsuko and saying "is it really him?"

This franchise dropping key bits of info through quick visuals or vague dialogue isn't new. That's what made the old series so (in)famous after all.

Misato or Ritsuko could've greeted him in the room where he's locked up and insulted by Asuka and explained what's happening. The moment he's awoken he's taken prisoner and given an exploding collar. So yeah, there was time to explain the situation. Of course Shinji would leave such a crap show.

Again, combat situation where people are dying and the Nemesis series is bearing down on them is happening at that very moment. I really don't get why you're downplaying that. The walking teenage apocalypse trigger is on the ship when tensions are already high and certain crew members (especially Sakura and Midori) are terrified of what he can do and/or want him dead. Misato doesn't want him dead and needs time to figure out what to do with him, but also show she's in control of the situation so everyone else won't question her and do their jobs necessary for their survival. So they use the same precautions they use on Asuka and Mari, she needs a quick preliminary examination to verify its him (hence why he's there on the bridge) and then puts him back in his quarters to wait until the crisis is over with the full intention of explaining things to him with Ritsuko.

We can't blame Shinji for leaving in the moment, but he later starts to understand her when Kowaru shows him the landscape and he realizes Rei Q is a clone. The timing of events was just not working in Misato's favor.


The movie never really shows or tells us any of that. I'd say she's never been crap at dealing with Shinji at all. Which makes her decisions in the third movie that much more baffling.

Her being a high ranking officer in an organization that uses him and other kids as child soldiers begs to differ. As well as her putting the moves on him after Rei II's death in the original series and her French kissing him in EoE. She never goes that far in this version, but she prioritizes using him as a means to avenge her father over his own feelings. Which she admits to and apologizes for before he leaves at the end of the second film (also in the similar scene in episode 19). They've always alternated between being supportive of each other and using/hurting each other. Miscommunication leading to more hurt is par the course for them.

Her being colder isn't a difficult thing to understand. The film SHOWS us her current circumstances. It's easy to connect line A with line B because everything is plain.

Wrong. One of the crew members of WILLE even defended Shinji in the fourth movie and explained how the near Third Impact wasn't his fault and he didn't cause it intentionally. It was an unintended consequence of his actions. She did have the time, and she did have the luxury. She simply failed to do it.

That was either Hyuga or Aoba, but you'll note neither of them spoke up during the bridge scene in 3.33. Because in this film, Midori and Sakura had him at gun point to prevent him from getting in an Eva, when that was now their last resort option because Asuka got sucked into Unit-13 and Gendo had Eva-01. The need to speak up for Shinji was more immediate here than it was in the third film when they thought he'd just go back to his quarters with no plan on putting him in an Eva.

It's in the documentary.

It isn't difficult to believe unfortunately, considering the animation industry in Japan seems like an absolute nightmare in general.[/QUOTE]
 
Her being a high ranking officer in an organization that uses him and other kids as child soldiers begs to differ. As well as her putting the moves on him after Rei II's death in the original series and her French kissing him in EoE. She never goes that far in this version, but she prioritizes using him as a means to avenge her father over his own feelings. Which she admits to and apologizes for before he leaves at the end of the second film (also in the similar scene in episode 19). They've always alternated between being supportive of each other and using/hurting each other. Miscommunication leading to more hurt is par the course for them.

Her being colder isn't a difficult thing to understand. The film SHOWS us her current circumstances. It's easy to connect line A with line B because everything is plain.


As far as Misato goes in the original series, I love her character, but she is kind of a mess when it comes to Shinji and her caretaker situation.

Misato of course does actually try (boy, does she try) to be the best guardian she can be, but due to what happened in her childhood (her complicated feelings about her father and how he died saving her from a catastrophic, worldwide apocalyptic event), her properly caring for Shinji was ultimately never going to work because of how she is as a person; she never got over her trauma. She finally succeeds in End of Eva with her saving Shinji to pilot Unit 01 and “save” the world, and finally admitting her faults to him, but it’s still complicated in the admittedly very problematic way she motivates him by giving him a full on kiss on the lips. Even in the end, she helps in the only messed up way she knows, performing an act rooted in her own tangled, messed up psychology. If anything, the new Rebuild version of her character, despite her hang ups and faults after the 14 year time-skip, is still a much more well-adjusted human being than OG Misato.

And, like Misato, pretty much all of the main adult characters in the OG series are basically children who never really grew up due to some past trauma or hangup, and put on the fronts of mature adults fully in control of their lives and situations, but actually don’t have it all together and don’t want to admit it or deal with it. All of these “adults” are essentially children trying to take care of children, so of course it’s not going work at all and why everyone is or ends up so ****ed up.

These people needing to face their demons/trauma and why them not doing so messes everything up is the main point of the whole entire original series!
 
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NEON GENESIS EVANGELION

Pre-orders are up for the collector’s and regular edition blu-ray for the OG series. The former includes the Classic Dub for both the series and End of Eva and the new Netflix dub, while the standard release has just the Netflix Dub.
 

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