BvS New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

[King23DC]

I didn't perceive Batman in BvS to be out there trying to murk everyone like the Punisher in a Bat suit.

It's hyperbole.

Same thing goes with Superman being considered emo or mopey. Not smiley enough. Or whatever that means. He's a hopeful character but his humanity shows what the weight of the world on his shoulders would believably be like. That's good writing IMO.

In regards to Batfleck killing. He shoots his vehicle weapons at people who are shooting at him, and under his mental state he only intends to kill Superman.

Is he more of a loose canon or sloppy compared to the more morally strict version of the comics or Bale? Yes, but that's kind of the point in the movie. He's totally become the inhuman monster he was fighting against. Brutal, and cruel. Lack of empathy and compassion. The bat monster that grabs him in his dream is a manifestation of his psychosis. The Bat has total control over him.

But he certainly is not the Punisher.

 

[LamboMan]

I didn't perceive Batman in BvS to be out there trying to murk everyone like the Punisher in a Bat suit.

It's hyperbole.

Same thing goes with Superman being considered emo or mopey. Not smiley enough. Or whatever that means. He's a hopeful character but his humanity shows what the weight of the world on his shoulders would believably be like. That's good writing IMO.

In regards to Batfleck killing. He shoots his vehicle weapons at people who are shooting at him, and under his mental state he only intends to kill Superman.

Is he more of a loose canon or sloppy compared to the more morally strict version of the comics or Bale? Yes, but that's kind of the point in the movie. He's totally become the inhuman monster he was fighting against. Brutal, and cruel. Lack of empathy and compassion. The bat monster that grabs him in his dream is a manifestation of his psychosis. The Bat has total control over him.

But he certainly is not the Punisher.

Totally right! I also see it like this. In MoS Superman's plight was paralleled to the plight of the police, who in some situations HAVE To kill the perpetrator or else they risk losing an innocent life. So it is with Supes and Zod. He was put into a realistic Kobayashi Maru no win situation and was forced to do something which he never wanted to do since there was no other option left and the choice was taken away from him.

In Batman's case I liken him to a soldier who is in a war to protect his nation but who doesn't intend to kill everyone he comes across but is still fine with casualties caused by collateral if the enemy engages him and is relentless and asks for it. He does what he does in self defense and since his hand is forced. He is not the aggressor like in the case of the Punisher, true. He is doing what he does to protect innocent lives or to complete his mission, which was to save the world from Superman. Not killing was fine when he was the strongest guy on the block. But now that Superman has shown up and since "everything's changed" he can't risk the life of 7 billion people on the planet for the life of a few terrorists.

 

[King23DC]

Totally right! I also see it like this. In MoS Superman's plight was paralleled to the plight of the police, who in some situations HAVE To kill the perpetrator or else they risk losing an innocent life. So it is with Supes and Zod. He was put into a realistic Kobayashi Maru no win situation and was forced to do something which he never wanted to do since there was no other option left and the choice was taken away from him.

In Batman's case I liken him to a soldier who is in a war to protect his nation but who doesn't intend to kill everyone he comes across but is still fine with casualties caused by collateral if the enemy engages him and is relentless and asks for it. He does what he does in self defense and since his hand is forced. He is not the aggressor like in the case of the Punisher, true. He is doing what he does to protect innocent lives or to complete his mission, which was to save the world from Superman.

Bingo.

Batfleck not being his as strict, classical toe the morality line, vigilante-hero isn't the problem.

The issues with the film are plot, structure and Hack Snyder related.

 

[Sleiek]

Sure he guns down and blows up vehicles with people in them, but I can not ignore the fact that when he could've killed people in hand to hand combat, he didn't. A killer operates differently. But I again, I just feel like repeating this over and over again whenever the kill code argument comes up. So I am gonna stop now.

 

[LamboMan]

Sure he guns down and blows up vehicles with people in them, but I can not ignore the fact that when he could've killed people in hand to hand combat, he didn't. A killer operates differently. But I again, I just feel like repeating this over and over again whenever the kill code argument comes up. So I am gonna stop now.

Another great point!

 

[FunkMiller]

Good point and I do know about that panel. I don't deny that you might be right, once again as I said, it is left to or own interpretation.

It could also be interpreted as Batman not having crossed the line for his own safety or well being, but having done so for the safety of the child and him not counting that as having crossed the line, since he didn't murder anyone outright, he did what he had to do in the defense of an innocent life. Maybe when a child is in danger, he did what he had to do and he felt that his own life wasn't worth breaking the code for, but it was for an innocent child?

EDIT: The difference between the above two panels that we're talking about is that in case 1 Batman doesn't have a choice since the life of a child is at stake and there a very short span of time for him to act. But in the case 2 he has a choice, either to take out that mutant leader with guns or his bare hands. No one's life was at stake in the second case, other than his own. Batman didn't have a choice in the first. It's the same as when the choice of whether to kill Zod or not was taken away from Superman in the end of MoS.

That scene has been left purposely ambiguous and that I why I said it is left up to interpretation.

You see, this is where you frustrate me. You're obviously an intelligent guy, with a lot of interesting things to say, but you have a habit of ignoring or misinterpreting evidence when it doesn't suit your thesis. This makes it very hard for me to appreciate the stuff that you say that has genuine validity, because you refuse to be critical of your own opinions or thoughts, when evidence is presented that contradicts it. The basis of all good critical analysis is the ability to accept and integrate new information, even when it's contradictory to what you want to believe.

That's very much the case here. Batman's dialogue clearly states he has not crossed the line in thirty years, the news reports during the book state Batman has never killed, Frank Miller has stated his Batman doesn't kill. And yet you will, I'm sure, still make the argument that it's ambiguous. In doing so you create flaws in your arguments, because the basis for them is founded on a false premise.

I learned a lot of years ago that being good at narrative analysis requires you to have your thoughts challenged periodically, and to accept when your viewpoint needs altering.

 

[sf2]

You see, this is where you frustrate me. You're obviously an intelligent guy, with a lot of interesting things to say, but you have a habit of ignoring or misinterpreting evidence when it doesn't suit your thesis. This makes it very hard for me to appreciate the stuff that you say that has genuine validity, because you refuse to be critical of your own opinions or thoughts, when evidence is presented that contradicts it. The basis of all good critical analysis is the ability to accept and integrate new information, even when it's contradictory to what you want to believe.

That's very much the case here. Batman's dialogue clearly states he has not crossed the line in thirty years, the news reports during the book state Batman has never killed, Frank Miller has stated his Batman doesn't kill. And yet you will, I'm sure, still make the argument that it's ambiguous. In doing so you create flaws in your arguments, because the basis for them is founded on a false premise.

I learned a lot of years ago that being good at narrative analysis requires you to have your thoughts challenged periodically, and to accept when your viewpoint needs altering.

it's still the batman kills thing here??? can't accept a brutal and ruthless batman??

 

[LamboMan]

You see, this is where you frustrate me. You're obviously an intelligent guy, with a lot of interesting things to say, but you have a habit of ignoring or misinterpreting evidence when it doesn't suit your thesis. This makes it very hard for me to appreciate the stuff that you say that has genuine validity, because you refuse to be critical of your own opinions or thoughts, when evidence is presented that contradicts it. The basis of all good critical analysis is the ability to accept and integrate new information, even when it's contradictory to what you want to believe.

That's very much the case here. Batman's dialogue clearly states he has not crossed the line in thirty years, the news reports during the book state Batman has never killed, Frank Miller has stated his Batman doesn't kill. And yet you will, I'm sure, still make the argument that it's ambiguous. In doing so you create flaws in your arguments, because the basis for them is founded on a false premise.

I learned a lot of years ago that being good at narrative analysis requires you to have your thoughts challenged periodically, and to accept when your viewpoint needs altering.

Oh don't worry, I know exactly what you're talking about. Which is why I love this movie since I'm always open to new information and new points of view or ways of thinking so I constantly update my own as I'm exposed to new things.

And fine, if Frank Miller has said that himself, I'll accept it. I hadn't come across that piece of information before but I had come across people saying that FM had never said anything about the matter. If you could kindly provide a link that would be great.

I like to accept the facts regardless of whether they fit my view or not, which is once again, why I love this movie.

 

[wnjcwjkk]

Maybe in the solo, we'll get some more insight into Batman's psyche previous to the incarnation we start with in BvS. I like to think he started out waging his war with the best of intentions, a strict no kill policy. I bet his early story is similar to the one told in the Nolan movies. He probably saw Harvey Dent as the incorruptible good who turned evil through loss and pain, and that gave him serious trust issues, that "eventually, you live long enough to see yourself become the villain".

He held to his standards and kept Joker alive, only to see him murder Robin, somebody who trusted Bruce implicitly, and maybe paralyze Barbara, idk. But can you imagine what that feels like? HaHa The Jokes On You Batman. He keeps that suit to remind him of his failure, that he is responsible for letting the scum of the earth win. He has lost all faith in his mission, so if a few criminals have to die, it's no big deal, people die every single day, we all have to die, he lives by the exact same principle that all soldiers do, better it be someone who has chosen their side than an innocent. If somebody has to die in his pursuit to stop a being that can destroy the planet, it's an acceptable casualty of war. Batfleck looks at Superman the same way Baleman looks at that atomic bomb. "Not cool with the no guns policy? Bane's a goner, Talia got murked, not gonna save Ras, no big deal, it's for the greater good."


I like that this Batman picks up after facing the same questions that the Nolan Batman had to face. Though it's not the same universe, it feels like a continuation of that same story. The difference is, this Batman isn't going to quit or stay holed up in Wayne Manor, because his obsession has taken him too far. He's gonna keep doing it, criminals are like weeds, some of them are going to die, until he himself dies.


Superman represents Hope in the midst of darkness. He shouldn't be just a fun character, with some action, one liners, an absolute moral lesson at the end, and everything is okay. What the hell does the American Way even mean anymore? People suffer all over the world so that we can live comfortable lives, gas in our car, convenience, aww he just proposed with a diamond ring, our materialistic lifestyle has far reaching consequences, but God is on our side, so it's okay. That doesn't make us bad, by nature, unless we are willing to turn a blind eye to it. Superman is about not turning a blind eye, making the tough choices, he represents the best in humanity, as he should because he is the mythology of our modern age. He is what we should all aspire towards.


"They will stumble and fall, but they will join you in the sun" is the dream of Superman. I don't think, as a storyteller, you can effectively convey that idea without setting Superman in a dark, realistic world, show him as conflicted, show him having to make the tough choices. Real heroes, like the people who took back over that flight on 9/11, killed the terrorists, and crashed into the ground, sacrificing their lives and many others, to save countless more lives, they had to make the hard choice, and they represent the best of us.

I think it was necessary to the themes of the story to portray Batman as dark, broken, and cynical and have Superman be the one to bring him back from the darkness to his initial ideals. We can debate all day whether they did a good job telling that story, some liked it, some didn't, but it's a little unfair to say this isn't how Superman/Batman should be portrayed. Just like the Marvel characters, these characters belong to all of us, I grew up on Superman and Batman since before I even have memories, and I'm not gonna have somebody who read a couple TPBs, saw some cartoons and movies, tell me their idea of Superman is any more valid than the kind of Superman story that I want to see. Marvel's great, enjoy that, but let those of us who want a different story enjoy DC.

 

[Jaxon]

Maybe in the solo, we'll get some more insight into Batman's psyche previous to the incarnation we start with in BvS. I like to think he started out waging his war with the best of intentions, a strict no kill policy. I bet his early story is similar to the one told in the Nolan movies. He probably saw Harvey Dent as the incorruptible good who turned evil through loss and pain, and that gave him serious trust issues, that "eventually, you live long enough to see yourself become the villain".

He held to his standards and kept Joker alive, only to see him murder Robin, somebody who trusted Bruce implicitly, and maybe paralyze Barbara, idk. But can you imagine what that feels like? HaHa The Jokes On You Batman. He keeps that suit to remind him of his failure, that he is responsible for letting the scum of the earth win. He has lost all faith in his mission, so if a few criminals have to die, it's no big deal, people die every single day, we all have to die, he lives by the exact same principle that all soldiers do, better it be someone who has chosen their side than an innocent. If somebody has to die in his pursuit to stop a being that can destroy the planet, it's an acceptable casualty of war. Batfleck looks at Superman the same way Baleman looks at that atomic bomb. "Not cool with the no guns policy? Band's a goner, Talia got marked, not gonna save Ras, no big deal, it's for the greater good."


I like that this Batman picks up after facing the same questions that the Nolan Batman had to face. Though it's not the same universe, it feels like a continuation of that same story. The difference is, this Batman isn't going to quit or stay holed up in Wayne Manor, because his obsession has taken him too far. He's gonna keep doing it, criminals are like weeds, some of them are going to die, until he himself dies.


Superman represents Hope in the midst of darkness. He shouldn't be just a fun character, with some action, one liners, an absolute moral lesson at the end, and everything is okay. What the hell does the American Way even mean anymore? People suffer all over the world so that we can live comfortable lives, gas in our car, convenience, aww he just proposed with a diamond ring, our materialistic lifestyle has far reaching consequences, but God is on our side, so it's okay. That doesn't make us bad, by nature, unless we are willing to turn a blind eye to it. Superman is about not turning a blind eye, making the tough choices, he represents the best in humanity, as he should because he is the mythology of our modern age. He is what we should all aspire towards.


"They will stumble and fall, but they will join you in the sun" is the dream of Superman. I don't think, as a storyteller, you can effectively convey that idea without setting Superman in a dark, realistic world, show him as conflicted, show him having to make the tough choices. Real heroes, like the people who took back over that flight on 9/11, killed the terrorists, and crashed into the ground, sacrificing their lives and many others, to save countless more lives, they had to make the hard choice, and they represent the best of us.

I think it was necessary to the themes of the story to portray Batman as dark, broken, and cynical and have Superman be the one to bring him back from the darkness to his initial ideals. We can debate all day whether they did a good job telling that story, some liked it, some didn't, but it's a little unfair to say this isn't how Superman/Batman should be portrayed. Just like the Marvel characters, these characters belong to all of us, I grew up on Superman and Batman since before I even have memories, and I'm not gonna have somebody who read a couple TPBs, saw some cartoons and movies, tell me their idea of Superman is any more valid than the kind of Superman story that I want to see. Marvel's great, enjoy that, but let those of us who want a different story enjoy DC.

 

[sf2]

Maybe in the solo, we'll get some more insight into Batman's psyche previous to the incarnation we start with in BvS. I like to think he started out waging his war with the best of intentions, a strict no kill policy. I bet his early story is similar to the one told in the Nolan movies. He probably saw Harvey Dent as the incorruptible good who turned evil through loss and pain, and that gave him serious trust issues, that "eventually, you live long enough to see yourself become the villain".

He held to his standards and kept Joker alive, only to see him murder Robin, somebody who trusted Bruce implicitly, and maybe paralyze Barbara, idk. But can you imagine what that feels like? HaHa The Jokes On You Batman. He keeps that suit to remind him of his failure, that he is responsible for letting the scum of the earth win. He has lost all faith in his mission, so if a few criminals have to die, it's no big deal, people die every single day, we all have to die, he lives by the exact same principle that all soldiers do, better it be someone who has chosen their side than an innocent. If somebody has to die in his pursuit to stop a being that can destroy the planet, it's an acceptable casualty of war. Batfleck looks at Superman the same way Baleman looks at that atomic bomb. "Not cool with the no guns policy? Bane's a goner, Talia got murked, not gonna save Ras, no big deal, it's for the greater good."


I like that this Batman picks up after facing the same questions that the Nolan Batman had to face. Though it's not the same universe, it feels like a continuation of that same story. The difference is, this Batman isn't going to quit or stay holed up in Wayne Manor, because his obsession has taken him too far. He's gonna keep doing it, criminals are like weeds, some of them are going to die, until he himself dies.


Superman represents Hope in the midst of darkness. He shouldn't be just a fun character, with some action, one liners, an absolute moral lesson at the end, and everything is okay. What the hell does the American Way even mean anymore? People suffer all over the world so that we can live comfortable lives, gas in our car, convenience, aww he just proposed with a diamond ring, our materialistic lifestyle has far reaching consequences, but God is on our side, so it's okay. That doesn't make us bad, by nature, unless we are willing to turn a blind eye to it. Superman is about not turning a blind eye, making the tough choices, he represents the best in humanity, as he should because he is the mythology of our modern age. He is what we should all aspire towards.


"They will stumble and fall, but they will join you in the sun" is the dream of Superman. I don't think, as a storyteller, you can effectively convey that idea without setting Superman in a dark, realistic world, show him as conflicted, show him having to make the tough choices. Real heroes, like the people who took back over that flight on 9/11, killed the terrorists, and crashed into the ground, sacrificing their lives and many others, to save countless more lives, they had to make the hard choice, and they represent the best of us.

I think it was necessary to the themes of the story to portray Batman as dark, broken, and cynical and have Superman be the one to bring him back from the darkness to his initial ideals. We can debate all day whether they did a good job telling that story, some liked it, some didn't, but it's a little unfair to say this isn't how Superman/Batman should be portrayed. Just like the Marvel characters, these characters belong to all of us, I grew up on Superman and Batman since before I even have memories, and I'm not gonna have somebody who read a couple TPBs, saw some cartoons and movies, tell me their idea of Superman is any more valid than the kind of Superman story that I want to see. Marvel's great, enjoy that, but let those of us who want a different story enjoy DC.

the batman killing - it's done. no further explanation required to please the upset. got it you got, didn't get it... too bad/ too good for you.

 

[LamboMan]

Maybe in the solo, we'll get some more insight into Batman's psyche previous to the incarnation we start with in BvS. I like to think he started out waging his war with the best of intentions, a strict no kill policy. I bet his early story is similar to the one told in the Nolan movies. He probably saw Harvey Dent as the incorruptible good who turned evil through loss and pain, and that gave him serious trust issues, that "eventually, you live long enough to see yourself become the villain".

He held to his standards and kept Joker alive, only to see him murder Robin, somebody who trusted Bruce implicitly, and maybe paralyze Barbara, idk. But can you imagine what that feels like? HaHa The Jokes On You Batman. He keeps that suit to remind him of his failure, that he is responsible for letting the scum of the earth win. He has lost all faith in his mission, so if a few criminals have to die, it's no big deal, people die every single day, we all have to die, he lives by the exact same principle that all soldiers do, better it be someone who has chosen their side than an innocent. If somebody has to die in his pursuit to stop a being that can destroy the planet, it's an acceptable casualty of war. Batfleck looks at Superman the same way Baleman looks at that atomic bomb. "Not cool with the no guns policy? Bane's a goner, Talia got murked, not gonna save Ras, no big deal, it's for the greater good."


I like that this Batman picks up after facing the same questions that the Nolan Batman had to face. Though it's not the same universe, it feels like a continuation of that same story. The difference is, this Batman isn't going to quit or stay holed up in Wayne Manor, because his obsession has taken him too far. He's gonna keep doing it, criminals are like weeds, some of them are going to die, until he himself dies.


Superman represents Hope in the midst of darkness. He shouldn't be just a fun character, with some action, one liners, an absolute moral lesson at the end, and everything is okay. What the hell does the American Way even mean anymore? People suffer all over the world so that we can live comfortable lives, gas in our car, convenience, aww he just proposed with a diamond ring, our materialistic lifestyle has far reaching consequences, but God is on our side, so it's okay. That doesn't make us bad, by nature, unless we are willing to turn a blind eye to it. Superman is about not turning a blind eye, making the tough choices, he represents the best in humanity, as he should because he is the mythology of our modern age. He is what we should all aspire towards.


"They will stumble and fall, but they will join you in the sun" is the dream of Superman. I don't think, as a storyteller, you can effectively convey that idea without setting Superman in a dark, realistic world, show him as conflicted, show him having to make the tough choices. Real heroes, like the people who took back over that flight on 9/11, killed the terrorists, and crashed into the ground, sacrificing their lives and many others, to save countless more lives, they had to make the hard choice, and they represent the best of us.

I think it was necessary to the themes of the story to portray Batman as dark, broken, and cynical and have Superman be the one to bring him back from the darkness to his initial ideals. We can debate all day whether they did a good job telling that story, some liked it, some didn't, but it's a little unfair to say this isn't how Superman/Batman should be portrayed. Just like the Marvel characters, these characters belong to all of us, I grew up on Superman and Batman since before I even have memories, and I'm not gonna have somebody who read a couple TPBs, saw some cartoons and movies, tell me their idea of Superman is any more valid than the kind of Superman story that I want to see. Marvel's great, enjoy that, but let those of us who want a different story enjoy DC.

 

[kguillou]

You know, as someone who had been a lifelong Marvel Comics fan, a lifelong Spider-man fan (up until they ruined him in he comics, movies and cancelled his animated series) you would think that Civil War would've been THE CBM moment I have been waiting for. And while, yes, Civil War was a fantastic film and seeing Spider-man amongst the avengers was surreal, it still does not top Wonder Woman's entrance in BvS for me. Despite my mixed to positive feelings about BvS, Wonder Woman's badass third act entrance remains THE CBM moment of 2016 for me. I was just smiling cheek to cheek during every frame she was in.The way she looked, the way she moved, her fierce battle cries, her theme music....she just gave the movie a much needed shot of adrenaline and boy Gal Gadot ROCKED it out of the park.

 

[Vortigern99]

You know, as someone who had been a lifelong Marvel Comics fan, a lifelong Spider-man fan (up until they ruined him in he comics, movies and cancelled his animated series) you would think that Civil War would've been THE CBM moment I have been waiting for. And while, yes, Civil War was a fantastic film and seeing Spider-man amongst the avengers was surreal, it still does not top Wonder Woman's entrance in BvS for me. Despite my mixed to positive feelings about BvS, Wonder Woman's badass third act entrance remains THE CBM moment of 2016 for me. I was just smiling cheek to cheek during every frame she was in.The way she looked, the way she moved, her fierce battle cries, her theme music....she just gave the movie a much needed shot of adrenaline and boy Gal Gadot ROCKED it out of the park.

Heck yes she did. Her solo film is going to be massive and spectacular, judging by the footage and stills we've seen, and her outstanding intro in BvS!

 

[Jaxon]

I didn't perceive Batman in BvS to be out there trying to murk everyone like the Punisher in a Bat suit.
.

Batman in BvS is a criminal. Even when he learns about the White Portuguese connection to Lex his first instinct is to dress up as Batman and go and steal it, even after a legitimate invite. He performs crimes, he even tells Alfred they have always been criminals, and he goes to resolve all his issues by force. He is so far gone, but it makes sense, you do what he does for a long time he has to break a little if not a lot.

 

[AnneFan]

Batman in BvS is a criminal. Even when he learns about the White Portuguese connection to Lex his first instinct is to dress up as Batman and go and steal it, even after a legitimate invite. He performs crimes, he even tells Alfred they have always been criminals, and he goes to resolve all his issues by force.

Indeed.

Bruce: "We've always been criminals. Nothing's changed."
Alfred: "Oh, yes it has, sir. Everything's changed."

 

[sf2]

Indeed.

Bruce: "We've always been criminals. Nothing's changed."
Alfred: "Oh, yes it has, sir. Everything's changed."

indeed & bravo... so many inks on batman... yet people don't get him. poor thing.

 

[Sleiek]

I don't if anyone had the same feeling the first time they watched the film but as soon as the opening credits started I kinda knew this is movie was going to be different than what I was expecting.

 

[Sleiek]

Just realized the things in the background look like Crosses. I see 2 in that low quality image, there might even be 3.

https://***********/LaFortalezaSole/status/733768641003524097

 

[batfreakforever]

The metal Batsuit is perfect. Seeing that on screen is a dream come true.

 

[SiriusLee]

I don't if anyone had the same feeling the first time they watched the film but as soon as the opening credits started I kinda knew this is movie was going to be different than what I was expecting.

Yeah definitely. When I saw that opening scene (which I thought was absolutely gorgeous; the cinematography, the music, there wasn't much dialogue but the dialogue that was there, the whole scene was just breathtaking) I knew it wasn't going to be what I was expecting. For me, that was a good thing and I enjoyed the movie a lot more than I thought I would

 

[SiriusLee]

I've been thinking about the Martha scene; in the knightmare sequence, Supes says to Batman 'she was my world, and you took her from me.' I think most of us have assumed that Supes is talking about Lois but Bruce may have assumed that the 'she' was referring to Martha

 

[Jaxon]

I've been thinking about the Martha scene; in the knightmare sequence, Supes says to Batman 'she was my world, and you took her from me.' I think most of us have assumed that Supes is talking about Lois but Bruce may have assumed that the 'she' was referring to Martha

I'm positive it's Lois especially with the link to "This is my world, you are my world", and with Pa Kent's memory about having a woman to love allowing him to deal with guilt.

I'm sure it's also not that Superman becomes bad because Lois dies, it's that Darkseid is able to exert his influence over him with a more lost Superman and be able to be controlled by Darkseid which he might have been able to overcome without the loss of Lois.

 

[sf2]

I'm positive it's Lois especially with the link to "This is my world, you are my world", and with Pa Kent's memory about having a woman to love allowing him to deal with guilt.

I'm sure it's also not that Superman becomes bad because Lois dies, it's that Darkseid is able to exert his influence over him with a more lost Superman and be able to be controlled by Darkseid which he might have been able to overcome without the loss of Lois.

do you think it will happen in JL1 / JL2? you know snyder is ballsy...

 

[Jaxon]

do you think it will happen in JL1 / JL2? you know snyder is ballsy...

No, that future scene won't happen at a guess because the studio won't let it. I wish it would though, having a couple of acts of the movie in JL2 with Superman in a Darth Vadar type role would be incredible. Seeing his raw power unleashed is frightening. That bit in the fight where he throws Batman through the building, catches him, throws him into the bat signal and then floats down onto the building, omg, his raw power is just crazy. And seeing the JL scattered and running from him, trying to stay alive while they work out a way to stop him and get him back to normal, that'd be crazy. But for another movie a lot further down the line.

You know, too many fan boys would complain about "that's not my superman". You know, the people who still eat sugar on toast since they were 3 years old.