BvS The BvS Ultimate Cut Thread - Part 1

[sf2]

Not quite. This 3hr cut wasn't the original 3hr cut they tested out. The Africa scene in particular was newly finalized footage. This UC was very much a reaction to the TC response.

?
u were invited to watch the 3 hours testing cut?

 

[idiot09]

Not quite. This 3hr cut wasn't the original 3hr cut they tested out. The Africa scene in particular was newly finalized footage. This UC was very much a reaction to the TC response.

No. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldRVshiC_Tw

Roven confirmed in this interview(from 6:51) onwards that Snyder gave them the 3hr cut and it was the initial cut.Even if you dont believe Roven,the 3hr cut was finalized well before the release,since it got its rating from mpaa somewhere around february.It is in noway a response to the tc since it was announced way before the tc came out that there is an ultimate cut which was going to be released.

 

[Poni_Boy]

?
u were invited to watch the 3 hours testing cut?

Yep. Which is why my initial reaction here to the film (three weeks before release) was more positive than when I saw the TC. But there's at about ten minutes of footage that differs from the original than this one. Not complaining. This one is better.

 

[Poni_Boy]

No. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldRVshiC_Tw

Roven confirmed in this interview(from 6:51) onwards that Snyder gave them the 3hr cut and it was the initial cut.Even if you dont believe Roven,the 3hr cut was finalized well before the release,since it got its rating from mpaa somewhere around february.It is in noway a response to the tc since it was announced way before the tc came out that there is an ultimate cut which was going to be released.

I believe what I saw over a reactive studio response, thanks.

 

[AnneFan]

But there's at about ten minutes of footage that differs from the original than this one.

Do you recall what was different?

 

[idiot09]

I believe what I saw over a reactive studio response, thanks.

How can it be reactive when it was announced and finished before the release of the film?

 

[Sleiek]

Wait a minute, did they reshoot after TC release?

 

[idiot09]

Wait a minute, did they reshoot after TC release?

Ofcourse they didnt.They started shooting Justice League on April 11th.

 

[idiot09]

@Poni_boy,even if we take your word for it that the original 3hr cut and the one released are different,that was not the point I was making in that post.That guy asked why Snyder couldnt make a coherent story after shooting all the footage,and I said he did,in the 3hr version.So what you are saying about the 3hr versions being different has no bearing about the point I was trying to convey.

 

[jmc]

Your argument is contrary to film history and logic. Most indie filmakers dont have the funding to do a 3-4 hour epic so that particular statement of yours is nonsense. And major studios have been doing 3 hour epics since at least the 1950s. Stop trying to rewrite history and act like its a sin for Snyder to make a 3 hour film. If Gore Verbenski and Nolan and Tarrantino and Demille and David Lean and William Wyler and Peter Jackson and Coppola and other directors are allowed to tell 165+ minute stories so is Snyder.

The studio signed off on his pitch, the script, the shoot, the vfx for the longer cut, and waited until the last minute to tell him to turn a dense 3 hour essentially finished film, that needed those 3 hours, into a 150 minute film. How the hell was he supposed to start from scratch at that point?

If WB had an issue with the length they should have said something much earlier so that the script and shoot and pickups could be used to make a film that would accomodate a shorter runtime. WB waiting until the last minute to tell him to hack 30 minutes out makes them responsible for this cluster****.

They should have went with the better version of the film. Better to underwhelm at the box office with a good 180 minute film than to underwhelm at the box office with a messy terribly reviews 150 minute film. At least a good film with better reviews would have had more chance to gain better WOM and more sales on home video. But now with the crappy WB cut and the god awful reviews of that ****** version some people didnt even bother going to the theaters and others wont even consider giving Snyder's version of the film a chance.


Also as an aside, most theaters these days are multiplexes with upwards of 20 screens. One of my local theaters has 15 screens and an hour from me is a 24 screen multiplex. These theaters are able to cram a lot of showings into a 24 hour period regardless of a film's runtime. And many theaters will put a well reviewed popular film on more screens for longer. If WB had released the longer better version it probably would have made more money than the crappy WB cut, because it most likely would have had better reviews, better WOM, and better ticket sales which would have most likely encouraged multiplexes to dedicate more screens to it for a longer period of time. At the very least the longer superior cut would have had better chances that the WB cut.

You are also forgetting the R rating though. The reality is if this film was released as a 3-hour R rated movie you can kiss goodbye any chance of it breaking $150m let alone $200m which many were expecting. Hell, it might not even break Deadpool's record. I'm sorry, but it's more than just the runtime which Snyder shares responsibility.

The truth is we don't know know what the circumstances are that lead to a 3 hour cut being done. WB and Snyder may have come to some agreement for a long film but the length was never finalised, or maybe Snyder promised to get the film cut to a reasonable length and realised he couldn't, or maybe it was simply a case of miscommunication. Whatever it was both he and WB share the responsibility for the theatrical cut we got.

But whatever it was, Snyder should never have build a film that risked going that long in the first place. If he couldn't find a way to streamline the story he wanted to tell he should have started from scratch, or dropped a bunch of things from the movie. Hell the dream sequence, WW and JL crap could have shaved off a good 10-15 mins alone. It still comes back to him as a film maker, if he can't make a streamlined enough movie and be aware financially what was required of the film then he's not the right person for the job. People can point all they like to Titanic and LOTR, but the reality is those are exceptions. A three hour dreary movie that isn't for kids that is the follow up to a lukewarm MoS hardly sounds like the most inviting thing to the average film goer. It is what it is though, what should have been one of the most anticipated movies of all time in JL is nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders at this point thanks to this movie.

 

[AnneFan]

The R rating is really due to one F bomb, which could've been removed no problems, gore during the Doomsday fight, and blood during the warehouse scene.

 

[jmc]

Geez you Americas are cotton wooled for ratings over there if that's all it is.

 

[Micromind]

Originally, Snyder wanted to make a 3 hour movie, so they must be having lots of unused footage, say for example, 4 hours of movie.

I don't want to get into which scenes were present in the 3 hour movie when they submitted it to get the "R" rating and which scenes have been added / removed since then, in the now released version.

The point is, what we have got right now works for many people. They are still telling the same story, not a different story.

 

[sf2]

You are also forgetting the R rating though. The reality is if this film was released as a 3-hour R rated movie you can kiss goodbye any chance of it breaking $150m let alone $200m which many were expecting. Hell, it might not even break Deadpool's record. I'm sorry, but it's more than just the runtime which Snyder shares responsibility.

The truth is we don't know know what the circumstances are that lead to a 3 hour cut being done. WB and Snyder may have come to some agreement for a long film but the length was never finalised, or maybe Snyder promised to get the film cut to a reasonable length and realised he couldn't, or maybe it was simply a case of miscommunication. Whatever it was both he and WB share the responsibility for the theatrical cut we got.

But whatever it was, Snyder should never have build a film that risked going that long in the first place. If he couldn't find a way to streamline the story he wanted to tell he should have started from scratch, or dropped a bunch of things from the movie. Hell the dream sequence, WW and JL crap could have shaved off a good 10-15 mins alone. It still comes back to him as a film maker, if he can't make a streamlined enough movie and be aware financially what was required of the film then he's not the right person for the job. People can point all they like to Titanic and LOTR, but the reality is those are exceptions. A three hour dreary movie that isn't for kids that is the follow up to a lukewarm MoS hardly sounds like the most inviting thing to the average film goer. It is what it is though, what should have been one of the most anticipated movies of all time in JL is nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders at this point thanks to this movie.

did zack snyder steal your pants? did he own you an apology??
why you are so persistent to put the blame on him... when there were already articles telling WB pull the break last minutes.

 

[idiot09]

Originally, Snyder wanted to make a 3 hour movie, so they must be having lots of unused footage, say for example, 4 hours of movie.

I don't want to get into which scenes were present in the 3 hour movie when they submitted it to get the "R" rating and which scenes has been added / removed since then, in the now released version.

The point is, what we have got right now works for many people. They are still telling the same story, not a different story.

Exactly.From what Ive heard the R-rating comes from the africa sequence with the whole deal with the burned bodies.Also maybe the body pushed into the railway track and the stabbing in prison.Whatever the reason as you said,what we got now works and Snyder made a good 3hr movie.

 

[jmc]

did zack snyder steal your pants? did he own you an apology??
why you are so persistent to put the blame on him... when there were already articles telling WB pull the break last minutes.

Why are you absolving him of any responsibility in this? Acting like he played no part in this is not being honest about the situation. I already stated both he and WB deserve blame for this movie, so it's not like I lay all the blame on him. But he deserves his share of the blame here.

 

[Consona]

That's some really high praise.

It is, I watched it again, it's such an amazing movie. I liked TC a lot but UE is a masterpiece. All those new things and details improved it in such a manner I really consider it the second best after TDK. There is so little I think does not work while the majority of stuff is just fantastic. The flow of the film is so much better, the characters deeper, it's such a multilayered film, not only the story, but the allegories and symbolism, etc.

And on the fun side of things, I really think Snyder is the best action scenes director ever. I thought the MoS Smallville fight was totally amazing but man, the stuff in BvS is just stellar. It's so incredibly dynamic and visceral. The Batman storage fight literally left me breathless. And the Doomsday fight in UE is so much better, I totally love it. It's much better executed and put together than in TC. And I loved the actual BvS fight too. It just felt right in every aspect. I have to say I loved Tony vs Steve and Bucky fight, but the overall tone of the CW was not dense enough, yet BvS atmosphere was just perfect. I mean perfect.

I'm watching the DD fight again and again and my heart is pounding and I have this big grin on my face all the time. The Superman's power, the Wonder Woman's skill, Batman's strategy and that fabulous moment, when there's only him and DD and he realizes he's just a man against this indestructible alien beast and he tries to get away with grapple gun, I cannot put into the words how awesome it is! And the Lois figuring out they need the spear and she drowning and DD being absolute destructor. And the music, The WW theme and the battle music itself. Man, I cannot wait for Snyder's Justice League, his fights feel so impactful and they are not ruined by silly moments. I'm somewhat Wagnerian guy, who needs to feel the weight of things, while CA:CW fights are great and funny, BvS and MoS fights are those that take my breathe away.


edit: The emotions, man, the emotions! t: *watching it again*

 

[idiot09]

Rather than playing the blame game which is flawed since we donot know what went on behind the scenes,its just best to say,I'm glad we got to see Snyder's true vision of the film,which ultimately is a good movie.

 

[idiot09]

It is, I watched it again, it's such an amazing movie. I liked TC a lot but UE is a masterpiece. All those new things and details improved it in such a manner I really consider it the second best after TDK. There is so little I think does not work while the majority of stuff is just fantastic. The flow of the film is so much better, the characters deeper, it's such a multilayered film, not only the story, but the allegories and symbolism, etc.

And on the fun side of things, I really think Snyder is the best action scenes director ever. I thought the MoS Smallville fight was totally amazing but man, the stuff in BvS is just stellar. It's so incredibly dynamic and visceral. The Batman storage fight literally left me breathless. And the Doomsday fight in UE is so much better, I totally love it. It's much better executed and put together than in TC. And I loved the actual BvS fight too. It just felt right in every aspect. I have to say I loved Tony vs Steve and Bucky fight, but the overall tone of the CW was not dense enough, yet BvS atmosphere was just perfect. I mean perfect.

I'm watching the DD fight again and again and my heart is pounding and I have this big grin on my face all the time. The Superman's power, the Wonder Woman's skill, Batman's strategy and that fabulous moment, when there's only him and DD and he realizes he's just a man against this indestructible alien beast and he tries to get away with grapple gun, I cannot put into the words how awesome it is! And the Lois figuring out they need the spear and she drowning and DD being absolute destructor. And the music, The WW theme and the battle music itself. Man, I cannot wait for Snyder's Justice League, his fights feel so impactful and they are not ruined by silly moments. Sorry, I'm somewhat Wagnerian guy, who needs to feel the weight of things, while CA:CW fights are great and funny, BvS and MoS fights are those that take my breathe away.

Well said.In terms of recent DC films here is how I would rank them.

1.TDK
2.BvS(Ultimate cut)
3.Watchmen(director's cut)
4.Batman Begins
5.Man of Steel

And for Marvel

1.Xmen-DOFP
2.Civil War
3.Iron Man
4.First Class
5.Winter Soldier

I dont like to compare Marvel and DC movies so I wont make a combined list.

 

[herolee10]

Rather than playing the blame game which is flawed since we donot know what went on behind the scenes,its just best to say,I'm glad we got to see Snyder's true vision of the film,which ultimately is a good movie.

Agreed.

As someone who enjoys the UE, I'm glad that Henry's scenes (and the other scenes that were added to the UE) were not simply stored away into Warner Bros's vaults...never to see the light of day, or simply just added to the "Deleted Scenes" feature for the film.

 

[Predator jp]

it's really sad that even with the existence of the UE, the version most people did and will watch is the TC.

 

[Jumpman]

Just got done with it and wow. This should have been the movie they shown. This movie now makes sense instead of asking viewers to make leaps of logic.
We now know why everyone blamed Superman for Africa.
We now know that Lex had designed this whole thing from the get go.
The senate scene takes on a new flavor.
More Clark and more Superman....Superman saving people and helping.

In defense of the theatrical cut, I thought it was pretty clear Lex was behind everything in that cut as well.

 

[Jumpman]

Those are exceptions. From what I've read of the UC is that it certainly improves from the Tc but it doesnt fix the overall story problem. The question is would the UC have earned more money than the Tc. It's entirely possible the UC wouldn't have earned all that more given the 3 hour run time combined with Snyder's style being a turn off for some people.

There isn't an overall story problem. It's just whether or not you liked this story Snyder cooked up that finally pits Batman against Superman.

 

[AnneFan]

Agreed.

As someone who enjoys the UE, I'm glad that Henry's scenes (and the other scenes that were added to the UE) were not simply stored away into Warner Bros's vaults...never to see the light of day, or simply just added to the "Deleted Scenes" feature for the film.

I agree too.

 

[Jumpman]

He still had a responsibility to make the film less than 3 hours. Snyder doesn't get off that easily simply because the UC plays better. He still should never have developed a story that needed 3 hours to be told.

With these characters, in a post-AVENGERS Hollywood where this genre is suppose to market to four quadrant appeal to sell future films down the line along with merch, you are 100% correct.

Having said that, in a pre-AVENGERS Hollywood, we're having an entirely different conversation and I think you know that.