The Dark Knight Nolan's Batman means...

[Agentsands77]

But......I don't see any reason to kill her at all.

If she's introduced, I doubt it'd just be to add another kill to his list. It'd be pointless to even introduce her if that's the plan.

I'm not saying kill her in the film series - I'm more talking about the comic book continuity. Give it five or ten years, and then take on that story in the comics.

In the films, if she were introduced, keep her alive. We're still in the early years of Batman, anyhow.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Oh yeah it has. She's been mostly comic relief. There's a darker theme under there, but it's never really been brought out because the character was initially written as kid-friendly, and then when she was transferred over to the normal comic book continuity, she was never brought into a more adult area.

Well, MAD LOVE is a good read. It delves into that stuff pretty good.

But, in BTAS....isn't the Joker providing most of the comedy anyway??

As for the comics....well, she wasn't created there....so it's no real surprise that they don't "get" her yet. The comics have a funny way of flopping and fumbling stuff for a good while before getting a good grip.

 

[Agentsands77]

I think it'd be even MORE tragic just to see her be with the Joker, and watch her be under his spell.

Oh, of course, but that whole dynamic does eventually run out of excitement at some point. It could be ten years from now, I don't know, but when that point comes, I think Harley Quinn's death would be worth seeing because it would really be such a magnificent moment.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I'm not saying kill her in the film series - I'm more talking about the comic book continuity. Give it five or ten years, and then take on that story in the comics.

In the films, if she were introduced, keep her alive. We're still in the early years of Batman, anyhow.

Oh, okay.

But, I still don't see why do it. Even more in the comics. We'd get another "Jason Todd" situation on our hands.....and we really don't need that.

For what it's worth though, I haven't seen anything from her in a while. With IC, who knows....maybe she'll get a re-introduction with retconned stuff.

But, to wait 5 or 10 years for the Joker's girl....I dunno. I don't think people would care enough, so the years might not mean much in making her a better character.

 

[Agentsands77]

Exactly. At some point. It doesn't have to be in the same movie she would introduced in.

And I never meant to suggest that it should be, if that's what you were taking away from my posts. You seem to be taking everything I'm saying in context of the film series, and I'm actually thinking more along the lines of comic book continuity.

I just mean that the character in general will end at some point, whether in the comics or movies (I doubt the movies will run long enough that she'd ever have to be killed off in the movies), and when that happens, there's a proper way to do it.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Oh, of course, but that whole dynamic does eventually run out of excitement at some point. It could be ten years from now, I don't know, but when that point comes, I think Harley Quinn's death would be worth seeing because it would really be such a magnificent moment.

Well, I think they could be seprated for a good long while......I think sort of like a marriage speration type of thing.....and eventually have them come back to eachother.

But.....I dunno. Killing her, that seems like such a drastic step for a character that really isn't in bad way.

 

[Agentsands77]

But, I still don't see why do it. Even more in the comics. We'd get another "Jason Todd" situation on our hands.....and we really don't need that.

Why would it bear any resemblance to Jason Todd? Characters die in the Batman universe all the time. It would just be another.

But, to wait 5 or 10 years for the Joker's girl....I dunno. I don't think people would care enough, so the years might not mean much in making her a better character.

Oh, I hope she gets retconned as soon as possible. But I just mean when it becomes clear the time is right to kill her off in the comics in the sense that they've covered most of the angles with here, which I don't really know when it would be (but I'd know it when we got there), there's a way to do it.

 

[Agentsands77]

Killing her, that seems like such a drastic step for a character that really isn't in bad way.

Umm, I'm talking about the *eventual* end of the character. I'm not talking about now, or anytime soon.

Every character has a theoretical eventual end somewhere, even Batman has a theoretical death moment somewhere off in the future. There will come a time when that end comes to pass for Harley Quinn and there's a right way to give Harley Quinn her send-off.

Heck, it wouldn't even have to be in continuity - we've seen the Joker killed off many ways in different non-continuity stories (THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS or KINGDOM COME, for example, or even BATMAN BEYOND: RETURN OF THE JOKER).

Perhaps a stand-alone, outside-of-continuity story could cover the death of Harley Quinn or at least have it as an event in the story somewhere. It would allow those who liked it to like it and see it as the future of the character and those who didn't like it could just utterly ignore it. Either way, it wouldn't affect mainstream continuity, but still allow for the story to be told.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Why would it bear any resemblance to Jason Todd? Characters die in the Batman universe all the time. It would just be another.

That's what I mean. They kill her off, it's just another comic death that means nothing.....b/c they'll bring her back.

And, if it does mean something.....and has an impact, we'll get another Jason Todd...where, at best, it'll be mixed.

Plus, this day and age......it's near impossible to kill a character and make it have any impact without it being a MAJOR character. I guess Superboy could count.....but knowing he'll eventuall return. I dunno. The deaths mean less to me.

Oh, I hope she gets retconned as soon as possible. But I just mean when it becomes clear the time is right to kill her off in the comics in the sense that they've covered most of the angles with here, which I don't really know when it would be (but I'd know it when we got there), there's a way to do it.

Well, it all depends on who's writing her. I mean, one would think that the Joker's been squeezed for all he's worth by now.....but he's not. And really, I think there's so much more to explore and stick with in Harley. I think death should be the furthest thing from DC's plans. Retconned is a possibilty. I mean, Joe Chill and his arrest was brought into continuity.

Umm, I'm talking about the *eventual* end of the character. I'm not talking about now, or anytime soon.

Every character has a theoretical eventual end somewhere, even Batman has a theoretical death moment somewhere off in the future. There will come a time when that end comes to pass for Harley Quinn and there's a right way to give Harley Quinn her send-off.

Heck, it wouldn't even have to be in continuity - we've seen the Joker killed off many ways in different non-continuity stories (THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS or KINGDOM COME, for example, or even BATMAN BEYOND: RETURN OF THE JOKER).

Perhaps a stand-alone, outside-of-continuity story could cover the death of Harley Quinn or at least have it as an event in the story somewhere. It would allow those who liked it to like it and see it as the future of the character and those who didn't like it could just utterly ignore it. Either way, it wouldn't affect mainstream continuity, but still allow for the story to be told.

Yeah, but......those never seem to "count" b/c they're always stand alones and such. Really, these characters will never no an end b/c the fans will never allow them to. And, good ideas are so hard to come by in the superhero genre...kill her off would be tough to do.

Then again, having an out-of-continuity thing going is something to appease fans of something we'll most likely never see.

Btw, I think I heard DC is done with the ELSEWORLD market. I still think it's b.s., but that's the word.

In a way, though. We do sort of get the "end" of Harley in BATMAN BEYOND ROTJ.

 

[wikum]

Catwoman needs to be in this series immediatly. Delaying introducing her is a big mistake. Ideally, she should have been in Batman Begins.

Because, let's face it: SHE is the love of Batman's life. She is his big, destined for love interest. That's why love interests for Bruce flounder in the movies. They keep looking for Someone to be Batman's Lois Lane or Mary Jane Watson. But Batman doesn't have that. The love of his life is Catwoman.

That's why Catwoman should be portrayed as something of a pseudo villain and should have a place in most if not all Bat-movies. Screw Joker for 2 AND 3. Catwoman all the way!!!

You make a few very good points there. I am sure Adam West would agree with you ("ohhh miss kitka").

I still think the sequel could have Selina Kyle in it.

 

[Agentsands77]

That's what I mean. They kill her off, it's just another comic death that means nothing.....b/c they'll bring her back.

No they wouldn't. She's a minor character that's only been introduced in the last fifteen years. They wouldn't need to bring her back.

Yeah, but......those never seem to "count" b/c they're always stand alones and such. Really, these characters will never no an end b/c the fans will never allow them to. And, good ideas are so hard to come by in the superhero genre...kill her off would be tough to do.

They do count, because ultimately, though we pretend there is, Batman has no real, genuine continuity. We all form our own "canons" of sort, take what we like, leave what we dislike.

Btw, I think I heard DC is done with the ELSEWORLD market. I still think it's b.s., but that's the word.

If true, it's depressing. Some of the best Batman material comes from elseworlds, or at least stand-alone, outside-of-continuity stories (ala THE LONG HALLOWEEN).

In a way, though. We do sort of get the "end" of Harley in BATMAN BEYOND ROTJ.

Yeah. And it's awful.