The Dark Knight Rises Nolan's Villian Formula = Next Villains

[korrupt]

i dont think it necessarily has to follow that formula. would get repetitive i think. why can't the main villian have a selfish motivation?
i think the next villian should be mr. freeze, but done more realistically. with his motivation being vengeance for his wife.

 

[CFE]

I think the majority of the third film should be Gotham City vs. Batman, but then a villain comes along that forces Gotham to call on Batman to save the day...thus putting everything right once more.

CFE

 

[Joker's Lackey]

*On topic: I don't believe in this formula. I just can't see it. Sorry to disagree. I just feel each villain represents the theme of the movie. Ra's using of Scarecrow's drug to spread Fear, so Gotham would rip itself to shreds. Joker being a new type of villain, where the Freaks are taking Gotham over from the old Mob families and yes that theme would be Escalation. So to figure out the next villain(s) are, we need to know the theme. So if Redemption is the speculated theme, Two-Face would more than likely be the main threat. Also don't forget the Joker was set to appear in the third movie, he could have easily have been the main threat again. Just my two cents.

 

[Starscreamer]

Warner Brothers will demand a villain! They have toys to sell and marketing campaigns to wage. A story about Batman running from the police is NOT going to be enough for the whole movie. You are going to see another of Batman's rogues. One thing about Nolan's formula he HAS used the villains in these movies.

BB- Ra's and Scarecrow
TDK- Scarecrow, Joker, Two Face

I think it will be The Riddler. Batman will have to redeem himself somehow. I believe prior to Ledger's death they planned on having him redeem himself by battling the Joker and saving Gotham in part 3 but now they need someone else, a new threat and it has to be bigger than the mob. The mob is crippled at the end of TDK, Two Face and Joker killed the big boys and the little crooks are in jail and will stay there thanks to Batman keeping Dent a hero. Wasn't that the point of him being the villain?

 

[RonStoppablefan]

EXCLUSIVE: David Goyer Says He Knows The Theme For ‘Batman 3’

So he has plans already for a third one eh? Cool. I just hope there is one, but if not I understand, the second film was pretty freakin cool t:

 

[Spider-Man '92]

I don't know where people get off saying Clayface should be in the next one. He's a cool villain, but honestly, he's one of the last characters I want in, because of the fact that these movies are supposed to be more realistic. Clayface just wouldn't work people.

Now Riddler could work. Perhaps extend on the Joel Shumacher Riddler, making him much more maniacal, and crazy. Riddler could work. Penguin could work as well (going for the more gangster Penguin).

However, I think the best "new" villain (not necessarily the main villain) would be SCARFACE and the VENTRILOQUIST (capitals so people can see it scrolling down). They could fill up the slot for mob leader, as well as villain. It's very realistic (a guy who's skitzo). It would work. Just think of it people. It would work.

 

[jmc]

I think trying to beat the Joker in terms of insane and over the top villain would be the wrong approach, I think there needs to be a 180 turn with a film three villain/s, something a bit more subtle to contrast the previous villain, The Riddler is probably the best villain for it because he's intelligent, he's not insane in the same way as the Joker, he's smart and therefore doesn't need to cause outlandish and cataclysmic events in order to gain Batman's attention, it's a battle of wits (that's not to say there can't be cool action sequences).

 

[Mike059jig]

I would like a villain that threatens Bruce Wayne himself....a rich smart clever one that comes to Gotham and steals the spotlight.....batman will be more in stealth mode with Gordon.....Riddler could he work? he would be the brains....recruits scarecrow to tell him about the batman....Bane would be as a big Russian muscle guy for the mobster....

 

[BatJokerFace]

My suggestions for main villains: Bane, Black Mask, and The Riddler should all be the next film's major villains.

• Bane seeks to challenge Batman and secretly rule the underworld, making Bruce Wayne question the benefits Batman brings to Gotham.

• Black Mask rules the mafia remnants by night and challenges Bruce Wayne by day as a wealthy industrialist and respected philanthropist. He feeds Bane the Venom steroid he needs.

• The Riddler wants to learn Batman's true identity and spends the movie doing it. Bane beats The Riddler for this information.

A new District Attorney, Ellen Yin, marshals Gotham against Batman and challenges Commissioner Gordon's ability to work with Batman.

Harvey Two-Face's role is never clear and he remains a wild-card. Only in the end should he redeem himself.

Thoughts?

 

[Lightning54SC]

hate to say this but this is liek the Star Wars trilogy.

Begins = The start and the hero saves the day

TDK = Empire strikes back, ends on a downer, LIKE REAL LIFE DOES

Next? = must be Return of the Jedi, they need the biggest showdown of all time.. meaning joker and batman like luck and vadar... so recast ledger with depp or someone and FINISH IT RIGHT!

 

[timwang2k]

*On topic: I don't believe in this formula. I just can't see it. Sorry to disagree. I just feel each villain represents the theme of the movie. Ra's using of Scarecrow's drug to spread Fear, so Gotham would rip itself to shreds. Joker being a new type of villain, where the Freaks are taking Gotham over from the old Mob families and yes that theme would be Escalation. So to figure out the next villain(s) are, we need to know the theme. So if Redemption is the speculated theme, Two-Face would more than likely be the main threat. Also don't forget the Joker was set to appear in the third movie, he could have easily have been the main threat again. Just my two cents.

I agree that the main villains represent the theme, but I still think the way the villains were used was deliberate. In both movies Nolan makes sure to bring up what Batman stands for and sets up a villain to counter that stance.

On another note, I don't get the whole redemption idea. Why does Batman need to be redeemed? I don't think the citizens of Gotham need to love or respect him to do his job. That's pretty much why he was able to take the fall for Harvey.

If he is redeemed what does that accomplish? A happy Batman? He's not donning the suit to get the adoration of the public. He doesn't care what people think about him.

 

[Batty Belfry]

I'd prefer to see villains that have not been used before in a movie, like Black Mask and Deadshot.

Or if they go with somebody like the Riddler, build the film's structure in a different way, maybe like Memento or something. That could be very engaging.

I don't think they have to "top" TDK. I believe that they just have to come up with a good compelling story. It's obvious that they can't top The Joker, so they should try something a little different.

 

[Gianakin_]

As the days pass, I wouldn't really mind Black Mask. But I have my mind set on Catwoman so much that my soul will rest only when they confirm or outright deny her existence in the 3rd film.

 

[BobJM]

I don't think a mob war with Black Mask and Penguin is a great idea for main antagonists. The mob has always played second fiddle in these films, and its served them well.

Then we have Riddler, but I don't think he can carry a movie on his own. And Catwoman, for me, is more antihero than villain.

So, until I hear a good concept that ties them all together, in BB3 we're stuck with a bunch of villains that can't carry a film.

 

[BatJokerFace]

I agree that the main villains represent the theme, but I still think the way the villains were used was deliberate. In both movies Nolan makes sure to bring up what Batman stands for and sets up a villain to counter that stance.

On another note, I don't get the whole redemption idea. Why does Batman need to be redeemed? I don't think the citizens of Gotham need to love or respect him to do his job. That's pretty much why he was able to take the fall for Harvey.

If he is redeemed what does that accomplish? A happy Batman? He's not donning the suit to get the adoration of the public. He doesn't care what people think about him.

It's not that Batman needs to be happy. The redemption theme goes hand-in-hand with Batman's questions about his own role in Gotham. Look at the questions TDK posed in lieu of fake Batmen, The Joker ("you complete me"), and Rachel's criticism of Bruce needing Batman: Does Batman accomplish more good than evil, or does he attract all these "crazies" to Gotham?

So, logically, Batman will be critical about the good he can accomplish. He'll need to redeem his own role in Gotham -- to himself especially -- so he can continue doing his job.

It makes sense because:

-In Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne wants to accomplish good by becoming Batman
-In The Dark Knight, Batman is confronted by the consequences of his extralegal actions against crime
-In the third installment, Batman will need to see for himself why Gotham needs Batman

This could play into a lot of friction between Batman and Gotham, particularly if a new District Attorney is as rigorously anti-Batman as the new villain. The villain -- maybe Roman Sionis or Bane, or both? -- could initially win public favor for trying to bring Batman to justice.

 

[jackshea]

black mask is tied to catwoman, infact, she kills him, which would be a good way of showing how she's not batman. also black mask was set to be in TDK, but was written out, i suppose as a gang leader, showing that nolan isn't opposed to him.

 

[jackshea]

i think if you want a big strong guy, do soloman grundy, if they want to keep w/ the long halloween, don't have him be a zombie, just a masssive, albino patient in Arkham.

 

[BatJokerFace]

Quote:
Originally Posted by timwang2k
I agree that the main villains represent the theme, but I still think the way the villains were used was deliberate. In both movies Nolan makes sure to bring up what Batman stands for and sets up a villain to counter that stance.

On another note, I don't get the whole redemption idea. Why does Batman need to be redeemed? I don't think the citizens of Gotham need to love or respect him to do his job. That's pretty much why he was able to take the fall for Harvey.

If he is redeemed what does that accomplish? A happy Batman? He's not donning the suit to get the adoration of the public. He doesn't care what people think about him.

It's not that Batman needs to be happy. The redemption theme goes hand-in-hand with Batman's questions about his own role in Gotham. Look at the questions TDK posed in lieu of fake Batmen, The Joker ("you complete me"), and Rachel's criticism of Bruce needing Batman: Does Batman accomplish more good than evil, or does he attract all these "crazies" to Gotham?

So, logically, Batman will be critical about the good he can accomplish. He'll need to redeem his own role in Gotham -- to himself especially -- so he can continue doing his job.

It makes sense because:

-In Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne wants to accomplish good by becoming Batman
-In The Dark Knight, Batman is confronted by the consequences of his extralegal actions against crime
-In the third installment, Batman will need to see for himself why Gotham needs Batman

This could play into a lot of friction between Batman and Gotham, particularly if a new District Attorney is as rigorously anti-Batman as the new villain. The villain -- maybe Roman Sionis or Bane, or both? -- could initially win public favor for trying to bring Batman to justice.

 

[Frank Noir]

Good point.

You see, people these days don't have the attention span to just deal with a great, amazing story. They need a villain.

If there is a villain in BB3, the only thing I see working is Two Face. You can't just throw Catwoman, The Riddler in. How can they fit into Nolan's real ongoing story? People really need to watch Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and really understand these movies. This is Batman's story. His beginning. His transformation into Gotham's Knight. His tear through organized crime. His rebuilding of Gotham.

I liked reading that. Because I'm a big fan of Two-Face coming back.

Another thing I was thinking of: why can't the Nolan brothers come up with their own villain? I think The Riddler, The Penguin, Catwoman, Killer Croc, Mad Hatter etc are not fit for these films. Leave it up to Nolan to come up with something relevant and intelligent.

 

[Batty Belfry]

Another thing I was thinking of: why can't the Nolan brothers come up with their own villain?

I had considered this before as well, I think it's cool. The Nolans could pull that off. It would be unique.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

There is going to be a villain. No villain = Superman Returns. The idea of Batman vs the mob and just trying to clear his name isn't going to do it. There has to be a primary antagonist.
Not a knock on SR but people wanted to see more than Supes flying around saving people.
People will want to see more than Batman vs avereage job mobster and trying to clear his name.

Very true... I think you can really play on how The Joker was used in TDK.

He became someone for the mob to follow (reluctantly, but nonetheless, they followed him), and he ultimately took the mob over. The same should be done for a new villain, except now, he/she should lead Gotham against Batman.

Spoiler

I'm still not ready to believe Two-Face is dead. They had a memorial for Harvey Dent at the end of TDK, not Two Face. Plus, look at gag from The Long Halloween that Gordon played on everybody in TDK.

 

[LightningFlash]

Batman Begins took a lot of elements from Year One and The Dark Knight took a lot of elements from The Long Halloween and it only makes sense for the third Batman movie to take elements from Dark Victory.

Now, for BB, the villains, or the main villain needed to be apart of Batman's origin, i.e. Ra's Al Ghul, and then for the big villain that is based on Gotham, it was Scarecrow.

TDK and TLH had a lot of same elements; Joker, Two-Face and dealt more within the mob trying to control Gotham.

Now Sal Maroni SHOULD still be alive, and he was in DV, so I think one villain that could be much like Hangman would be the Phantasm. A female villain would be perfect for the third movie. The third movie needs at least one female cast, and also as a love interest for Batman, but having a villain kill members of the mob would make Batman come out of the shadows even with the police after him.

Just my opinions.

But a second villain to have could be Black Mask, not as a mass-murdering villain, but as a mob boss, trying to figure out who the Phantasm is. And a cool Batman/Phantasm/Black Mask fight would be nice to see and something very different.