Official 2011 MLB Thread

[Spidey-Bat]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6097813

That "Harry Caray rising out of Hell" statue was vandalized. Again. God that thing is creepy.

Yeah, seriously. It looks like something that came out of the Ark of the Covenant.

 

[jacobed]

Lifetime Twins fan here, I can't wait for the new season. I can feel it this is year for the Twins.

 

[Kingfish]

Not if they get the Yankees in the first round.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Ah the Twins. Great in the regular season, but can't win a playoff series to save their lives.

Sadly, you'll still likely win the Division this year as the White Sox have no bullpen and about 1,500 striekouts in their lineup, while the Tigers continue to be the dumping ground for over-the-hill, Scott Boras clients. (FML!) And the Indians and Royals are, well, the Indians and the Royals.

 

[BlackLantern]

Minnesota Twins - Division Champs due to lack of options

 

[steintym]

As a Twins fan, you better hope Morneau's head clears up (and doesn't take another shot to the melon).

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

the starting rotation wasn't that bad. i remember enright, kennedy, and hudson had pretty strong ends to the season last year.

overall though, i don't see a higher than 3rd place finish (if that) for the dbacks next year.

Enright will start the season in the minors most likely. Kennedy is fine and I really liked what I saw from Hudson last year. It just won't be enough I don't think. A 3rd place finish would be tremendous (assuming LA and SD are 4th/5th)

 

[BlackLantern]

the Mets are in debt up to their neck....yay

 

[Kingfish]

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/02/06/pettitte-junction/

Now that's a pretty good article from Ninja's writing man-crush. Still some fluff but it comes across pretty clear.

Look: In many ways, Chuck Finley and Andy Pettitte had the same career. They were both tall, lanky and left-handed (Pettitte’s 6-5, 225; Finley 6-6, 220). They made almost the same number of starts — Finley started 467 games, Pettitte started 479. They both won 200 games. They had almost exactly the same ERA (Finley was 3.85, Pettitte 3.88) but Finley got more time in the pitcher-friendly 1980s and spent much of his career in a pitcher-friendly stadium in Anaheim, so his ERA+ is slightly less (Pettitte’s is 117, Finley’s 115).

Finley struck out more (2,610 to 2,251) but Pettitte was the better control pitcher (962 walks to Finley’s 1,332). Pettitte kept the ball in the ballpark (263 homers allowed to Finley’s 304) but Finley pitched more than twice as many complete games (63 to 25).

Pettitte’s aWAR — that’s the average Wins Above Replacement between the dueling Baseball Reference and Fangraphs models — is 58.5.

Finley’s aWAR is 57.5.

Point is there really isn’t much at all separating the career value of Chuck Finley from the career value of Andy Pettitte. And then you look year-by-year at some of the goofy things people look at — Finley was a five-time All-Star, Pettitte a three-time All-Star; Finley got Cy Young votes only once, Pettitte got votes in five years; Pettitte led the league in wins once, Finley led the league in complete games and innings once; Finley finished Top 5 in strikeouts six times, Pettitte led the league in starts three times, Pettitte won 20 twice, Finley finished second in ERA twice and threw more than three times as many shutouts — and you really can’t help but think that there just isn’t much separating the two guys. An argument for one offers a perfectly reasonable counter-argument for the other. Two players are never interchangeable, but Chuck Finley and Andy Pettitte seem just about interchangeable.

But are their careers really interchangeable? Of course not. Nobody — and I mean NOBODY — thinks Andy Pettitte and Chuck Finley were even similar. This is largely because Andy Pettitte spent most of his career playing for the great New York Yankees teams, and Chuck Finley spent most of his career playing for the not-great-at-all California Angels. Finley’s first full year was 1988, his last with the Angels was 1999, and in those years the Angels never finished higher than fifth in the league in runs scored (they finished 10th or worse eight times, and dead last four times).

Pettitte’s Yankees, meanwhile, led the league in runs scored five times, were second in runs three more times, and never finished 10th.
These different circumstance meant that Andy Pettitte had a much more noticeable career. Playing for the high-scoring Yankees meant that Pettitte — pitching basically like Chuck Finley — put up a 240-138 career record. His .635 winning percentage is 10th among pitchers who have made 400 starts.

Finley’s 200-173 record looks pedestrian by comparison.

And, of course, the Yankees made the playoffs just about every year (the Houston Astros made the playoffs in two out of Pettitte’s three years there). Pettitte started 42 postseason games while Chuck Finley started four — all four in his late 30s after he was really done as a good pitcher.

Pettitte pitched in the postseason exactly as he pitched in the regular season — his 19-10 record fits perfectly with his career record, his 3.83 ERA fits perfectly with his career ERA, he had some superb performances and some less-than-superb ones, just as he did throughout his career. He never threw a postseason shutout — never, in fact, threw a complete postseason game (thanks, Mariano) — but he was awfully good against Florida in Game 2, and Atlanta in Game 5, Oakland in Game 4 and so on.

Chuck Finley got one Hall of Fame vote in 2008, and if anyone even noticed it was to ask WHY he got even that one vote.

Andy Pettitte was nothing more than Chuck Finley with run support.

 

[Poeman]

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/02/06/pettitte-junction/

Now that's a pretty good article from Ninja's writing man-crush. Still some fluff but it comes across pretty clear.

Andy Pettitte was nothing more than Chuck Finley with run support.

That article is full of Yankees hate.

Pettitte has mainly been known as the clutch pitcher he is because of the postseason...Elimination games, who you gonna call?

 

[Spidey-Bat]

You call it Yankee hate, the rest of us call it being objective.

 

[BlackLantern]

yea...my cousin is a big time Yankee fan and even he is very wishy washy about whether Pettite belongs in the HoF

and this is a guy who would deep throat Derek Jeter if given the opportunity

 

[Kingfish]

That article is full of Yankees hate.

Pettitte has mainly been known as the clutch pitcher he is because of the postseason...Elimination games, who you gonna call?

Damn those numbers/facts and their bias against the Yankees!

Now, if I put any basis on postseason sample sizes, my answer to your question would probably be...Curt Schilling.

Pettitte wasn't really clutch in the postseason. He pitched almost identically to his average regular season numbers. He was never dominant.

 

[Poeman]

You call it Yankee hate, the rest of us call it being objective.

I cant take you seriously on this...Come on son. COME ON.

You wish you had Pettitte pitching on your team in big games. Finley's record of big games dont compare

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/02/06/pettitte-junction/

Now that's a pretty good article from Ninja's writing man-crush. Still some fluff but it comes across pretty clear.

Andy Pettitte was nothing more than Chuck Finley with run support.

How about that? I never considered Finley as a comp (or ever in anything?), I'm glad to see that spelled out.

That article is full of Yankees hate.

Pettitte has mainly been known as the clutch pitcher he is because of the postseason...Elimination games, who you gonna call?

You call it Yankee hate, the rest of us call it being objective.

Damn those numbers/facts and their bias against the Yankees!

Now, if I put any basis on postseason sample sizes, my answer to your question would probably be...Curt Schilling.

Pettitte wasn't really clutch in the postseason. He pitched almost identically to his average regular season numbers. He was never dominant.

lolol Poeman, you're a goofy goober.

I already made the point that Pettitte wasn't a different pitcher in the postseason, and you didn't get mad (or didn't read it). But when a nationally respected writer says it, it's now Yankee hate?

I don't think anyone suggested that Pettitte was a bad pitcher (Kingfish would but he hates anyone in pinstripes), he just wasn't top tier of his generation in terms of dominance.

 

[Kingfish]

You wish you had Pettitte pitching on your team in big games.

Does he come with the Yankee offense? Because if not, I can do a hell of a lot better than a #3 starter giving up four runs a game.

If anything, Finley was even more impressive for having the same career numbers while playing for terrible teams.

I don't think anyone suggested that Pettitte was a bad pitcher (Kingfish would but he hates anyone in pinstripes), he just wasn't top tier of his generation in terms of dominance.

Hey, hey, hey, I never said that. Pettitte was good but he wasn't a HOFer. But at least he was as good as Chuck Finley.

 

[jacobed]

I don't think the Yankees will be that great this year, they'll be pretty average at best or maybe that is just wishful thinking for the 1st round of the playoffs this year. On paper the Red Sox are ridiculously good this year so I'm interested to see if that plays out for them.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Didnt we already disprove the myth of "clutch" in this forum?

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I cant take you seriously on this...Come on son. COME ON.

Why? Because I disagree with you? GTFO

You wish you had Pettitte pitching on your team in big games. Finley's record of big games dont compare

No, I don't. As I've said numerous times, Pettitte simply had the good fortune of playing on some of the best teams of his era. Not once in his entire career was he the best pitcher in the majors or even the best in his league, he often wasn't even the best pitcher on his team.

He had a lot of good performances in the playoffs, he also had a lot of awful ones.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Hey, but Chuck Finley did nail Tawny Kitaen (when she was still hot)

Advantage: Chuck Finley

 

[BlackLantern]

winner

 

[Erzengel]

Rumors are that Twins might be trying to offload Liriano. Don't think they should give up any stellar prospects but the Yankees could use him as at least a #3.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

If thats the case why did they just resign him?

 

[Erzengel]

Think he's a free agent after next year and he wanted a quite sizable extension.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Hey, hey, hey, I never said that. Pettitte was good but he wasn't a HOFer. But he was at least as good as Chuck Finley.

I think there's something to be said for being consistent throughout a long career. He was never great but he was also never terrible. I don't think that should be held against him when judging his career. a Yankee HOFer in monument park yes, enshrinement in Cooperstown, probably not.

Didnt we already disprove the myth of "clutch" in this forum?

I don't think its the matter of clutch not existing per say, I think it's the matter of you really can't predict clutchiness. Sometimes good players come up with big hits and sometimes they don't i.e A-Rod. Sometimes average or bad players can get a big hit i.e. Eckstein. It's just the way the game goes.

Rumors are that Twins might be trying to offload Liriano. Don't think they should give up any stellar prospects but the Yankees could use him as at least a #3.

He's their best pitcher. If they have the money they should keep him around for a few more years. But you know, always sell high when the player is at its peak demand. That is if they're serious about dealing him.