Official 2011 MLB Thread

[BlackLantern]

Neyer had some good columns, but overall he "went against the grain" just to do so

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

neyer is awful.

olney is awful.

stark is awful.

everyone is awful.

i like karl ravich, but he's not even an analyst. just a talking head mediator of sorts.

I'll give you Olney. Stark isn't bad. Neyer is really good, what do you have against him?

lol EVERYONE IS AWFUL. Have you ever read Howard Bryant?

Neyer had some good columns, but overall he "went against the grain" just to do so

Do you have any understanding of what point of view Neyer comes from? He's an understudy of Bill James. If you don't know who he is, google him.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

No, Stark is awful.

 

[Kingfish]

Stark is pretty bad. Neyer is a decent writer, but he's also incredibly biased and doesn't make any attempt to hide it.

 

[Erzengel]

Andy Pettitte to Retire on Friday

Thanks for the memories Andy.

Core 4 becomes Core 2 1/2.

 

[steintym]

Heck of a run for Petite (to say the least)

 

[Erzengel]

Don't think he will make Hall of Fame with the admission of HGH.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Even if he didn't use HGH, he wouldn't make it. He was an above-average pitcher who had the good fortune of playing on some of the best teams of his era.

 

[Erzengel]

Well we'll never know now.

 

[Gamma Ray]

Pettitte has been one of my favorites since I was a kid. Great pitcher to watch, a great guy and has been part of some of the best games in Yankee history. Thanks for a great run, Andy!


Oh, and now it's really official. Our pitching is going to be dreadful.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Don't think he will make Hall of Fame with the admission of HGH.

I don't think it matters to his candidacy HGH or not.

 

[Kingfish]

What will be really funny is when Yankee fans (and writers) start using HGH as the excuse for why Pettitte doesn't get in. Instead of just, you know, he wasn't anywhere near good enough.

 

[Kingfish]

EDIT: Something, something, Andy Pettitte is not a HOFer.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Yeah. He never led the league in anything except wins (once), starts (3 times) and HR/9 (once). As I said, an above-average pitcher who had the good fortune of being on some of the best teams of the decade.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Yeah. He never led the league in anything except wins (once), starts (3 times) and HR/9 (once). As I said, an above-average pitcher who had the good fortune of being on some of the best teams of the decade.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Funny though how Pettitte had some of his best years statistically for the 3 seasons when he wasnt a Yankee.

 

[Erzengel]

As a Yankee fan, I felt he was borderline. He does have the most post season wins but again he's been on strong teams. Also, people with less wins have made it in. Again it's all moot.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Funny though how Pettitte had some of his best years statistically for the 3 seasons when he wasnt a Yankee.

HGH FTW

As a Yankee fan, I felt he was borderline. He does have the most post season wins but again he's been on strong teams. Also, people with less wins have made it in. Again it's all moot.

Pettitte has so many post-season wins because of the Division series they added in 1994.

 

[steintym]

Pettitte would have been (is) borderline HOF with or without the HGH confession. Like others have stated ... above average pitcher on some really good teams.

 

[Kingfish]

Wins are irrelevant stat anyway, and as for the postseason wins, like Spidey said, the only reason he does is because he pitched his entire career for teams that

A. Made the postseason.
B. Played an extra round in the postseason.

It's not like he was even particularly dominant in the postseason. Right place and right time.

Want a telling stat for Pettitte? His career WHIP is 1.36. That would be the second highest for any pitcher in the Hall (the other pitched in the thirties) and overall ranks him 717th among pitchers that threw at least 1,000 innings.

He's the very definition of #3 stater.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

And don't forget that 1.30 post season WHIP in 263 IP. Basically still pitching like himself, just on a bigger stage. I don't think that he should be held against him though, just because he had the opportunity to pitch in playoff games, it's just the way it goes. But stacking him up against pitchers of his generation he was not top-tier. Nothing wrong with being a reliable starter if not consistently-consistent with his skill set for a 16 year career though. If I'm Pettitte, I'm fine with that.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

And while were on the Pettitte topic, I would like to personally thank him for this uber-clutch preformance
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ARI/ARI200111030.shtml

 

[Spidey-Bat]

And don't forget that 1.30 post season WHIP in 263 IP. Basically still pitching like himself, just on a bigger stage. I don't think that he should be held against him though, just because he had the opportunity to pitch in playoff games, it's just the way it goes. But stacking him up against pitchers of his generation he was not top-tier. Nothing wrong with being a reliable starter if not consistently-consistent with his skill set for a 16 year career though. If I'm Pettitte, I'm fine with that.

But his post-season win total shouldn't be why he gets to the Hall of Fame. He had 42 his entire career. Bob Gibson had only 9 and I bet if you gave him 42, he'd have won at least 25 of them.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

I never said that. Also, you should clarify your math. Giving Bob Gibson 42 wins should have him winning at least 25 of them?

I'm not suggesting post season performance should be factored into the HOF criteria, but I think it helps increase the candidacy of a borderline player like Pettitte, regardless of how specific it is. Look at Schilling, his post season success is like the only thing that gives him a shot at the HOF, which just goes to show how much that can factor in.

 

[Erzengel]

And Vladimir Guerrero is an Oriole.