Comics Official APOCALYPSE Discussion Thread

[Nathan Petrelli]

why wasn't one around before?

we should all discuss and hail the most greatest X-Men character in history, Apocalypse

 

[chris moore]

I would hail him - if he hadnt been turned into a joke of a being with no end goal and a laughable approach to everything, not to mention a power set that is unexplainable and usually referred to a power of immortality (despite his need for rejuvenation by slumber every coupld hundred years) with everything else derived from celestial tech he nicked from the ship the immortal Saul was watching over.

He could be awesome if they re-did him - but I fear at this stage, a massive retcon would be needed in order to clear up the mess his backstory has become.

 

[Nathan Petrelli]

you hurt my feelings

 

[OutcryX]

he only speaks the truth. How badass can one be when every time he shows up he becomes more and more comical and less and less of a real threat? He has the SAME plot, 'kidnap an X-Men of three, convert them to horsemen', then proceed to do nothing and get ass kicked by X-men..with the help of a turncoat X-horseman...or three. If they ever wrote him to be an uber villain and he actually WON or DID something, then maybe he'd be cool...but, no..he isn't

 

[Canemacar]

Apocalypse is a joke. Thats really all there is to it. Sinister was supposed to replace him as the #2 X-villain during Messiah complex(something I thought needed to happen a long time ago), but Carey blew it with his Mystique fan-fic.

 

[chris moore]

Sadly, they had the chance to fix Apocalypse with his Ultimate counterpart - but so far it looks like they've blown that too...

 

[insane polaris]

ive only read one story where apocalypse was the villian... which was when gambit and polaris were horsemen.
but i didnt really like it. as his name says... he is the end of the world but the stories dont seem like there's much at stake. the x-men defeat him in a single issue.
if he was really that powerful it should be some huge event.
but that cant happen now as someone said above theyd have to be a big retcon to sort that out.
apocalypse should sleep for many years...and then make a huge comeback with a world threatening plan and have no horsemen for a change.

 

[chris moore]

Horsemen are fine; they fit with the name and make good fighting fodder before having to face the big guy. But dont have a villain who is all about "survival of the fittest", then have him not select horsemen based on that ruling, but instead get random mutants (and occasionally not even that) and change their powers completely.

I suppose it goes with what he is. He doesnt choose them because they are the fittest. He chooses them because they are weak, then makes them strong by his own means to demonstrate how superior and fit he is that he can take nothing and make the best (cept they all suck except Warren, whose transformation was a major upgrade). And Nur himself is an example of that. He was fit, and did survive. But then found that what he was wouldnt always be fit enough; so he took what would become weak, and made it more by using celestial tech.

How bout, instead of us 'praising' what has become a lame character. How about we suggest a way he COULD have been successfully Ultimised?

 

[OutcryX]

ive only read one story where apocalypse was the villian... which was when gambit and polaris were horsemen.
but i didnt really like it. as his name says... he is the end of the world but the stories dont seem like there's much at stake. the x-men defeat him in a single issue.
if he was really that powerful it should be some huge event.
but that cant happen now as someone said above theyd have to be a big retcon to sort that out.
apocalypse should sleep for many years...and then make a huge comeback with a world threatening plan and have no horsemen for a change.

yeah and that was his big return after The Twelve storyline and it fell right on its face.

Survival of the fittest and he picks a lobotomized Gambit and Crazy chick Lorna...two characters who arguably COULD be two of the most powerful characters period....but he did nothing to tweak or repair their abilites

 

[cerealkiller182]

How bout, instead of us 'praising' what has become a lame character. How about we suggest a way he COULD have been successfully Ultimised?

I think it might be a tad too early to make judgement on Ulti Apoc. Maybe after the next ish

 

[Nitehawk013]

Toe to toe with the High Evolutionary until he got bored.
Went toe to toe with Loki making it clear he would not serve Loki.
Beheaded Dracula.
Handled the Inhumans fairly easily and took their moon city as his own for a time.
Easily handled and retrained Hulk showing his strength was superior. And made HUlk his horseman.
Puts the fear of god into Sinister. So much so that Sinister has to plot and scheme to try to eliminate him.
Is quite possibly the most brilliant non-cosmic in the universe.
Kang feared his power so much he went back in time to try to eliminate him as a slave in Egypt.
Fought the Eternals ages ago. Also defeated Ikarus, a Prime Eternal.
Was the one to learn Onslaughts weakness, an attack via the astral plane.

The only reason he can even be joked about is bc the X-family writers are complete hacks that blow it everytime Apoc is in a storyline. And even then, typically he isn't simply punked. The combined Xmen and Avengers were needed a couple time to defeat him. Another, the combined Xmen and Inhumans.

Apoc is a stud. Written by anyone with talent he would be on par with Doom or Kang. He has been relegated to simply an X villain when he should be a Marvel wide villain.

 

[chris moore]

Thats what I mean - he could be awesome. But he has been consistently written badly. Its just the behind the scenes, not depicted in a comic backstory that saves him. The Dracula mini was helluva good though

 

[BMM]

I would hail him - if he hadnt been turned into a joke of a being with no end goal and a laughable approach to everything, not to mention a power set that is unexplainable and usually referred to a power of immortality (despite his need for rejuvenation by slumber every coupld hundred years) with everything else derived from celestial tech he nicked from the ship the immortal Saul was watching over.

He could be awesome if they re-did him - but I fear at this stage, a massive retcon would be needed in order to clear up the mess his backstory has become.

Apocalypse is a joke. Thats really all there is to it...

Unfortunately, all true.

 

[Havok83]

Milligan really screwed up his return and that was the worst story A ever had. He really needs to be this big powerful A list villian and not some joke

 

[cerealkiller182]

maybe they got something interesting planned seeing what happened to Chamber

 

[Nathan Petrelli]

I think if they make him Marvel Wide, they should play more on the fact he is an immortal Egyptian God, give him a cult as well

 

[Nitehawk013]

Although it wasn't canon, I have been bouncing around an idea for Apoc in my head that links his "survival of the fittest" mantra directly to the Earth X storyline. I thought it also gave Apoc even deeper meaning in the Marvel U and even more depth as a "villain".

The Celestials acc. to Earth X seeded the planet to create superhumans inorder to protect it from Galactus who would devour earth in order to destroy the celestial "egg" as it were inside.

My idea I have kicked around centers on the Celetials deal with Apoc and his acquiring their technology, incredible power and nigh cosmic intellect and understanding of genetics and biochemistry.

I figure he was given all his power on the condition that he test all of humanity, mutant and otherwise, inorder to constantly push them forward in order to ensure that when Galactus did come to feed he would be met by a race who had been pushed to be "only the strong" by Apocalypse. His mission would weed out the weak century by century making sure that only the strongest pass on their genes in the pool for the next generation. All according to the Celestials plan.

Think about it. Apoc doesn't view himself as a villain. He views himself as superior to all, working for the overall strength of all humanity (although focussed on mutants typically) and sees things amorally.

His plans fail to the eyes of the heroes, but he always manages to push them further. Even in "failure" on Attilan he managed to infect Nathan which in the end created Cable...a vastly powerful mutant and step forward in the evolution of mutant kind.

Now sure he has his own schemes. Even though he serves the Celestials out of a "debt" he despises being servant to anyone and so he has launcehed his own plans to make himself powerful enough to overcome even the celestials. Thats what "the twelve" was all about. But overall, while he does fill the role of villain (even though he is written piss poorly by most writers) he is acting in order to make human and mutant kind better and stronger.

I theorize that is his "debt" to the Celestial and they wouldn't let him die and avoid it. He has many more centuries to continue his work even though he showed he would rather die than continue to be a servant. Since in his mind being a servant, even to beings as powerful as the Celestials, means he is not the strongest and isn't fit to survive.

I could be way way off and the writers have some half cocked ******ed idea for him and his debt to the Celestials. Or I could be dead on. In which case I will never see a royalty check. LOL.

 

[BoredGuy]

I say let him sleep for about 5 years then have him come back with a great plan and make it a huge Marvel U crossover event...

Oh, and can someone tell me, what is the deal with Chamber and his Apocalypse look?

 

[cerealkiller182]

I say let him sleep for about 5 years then have him come back with a great plan and make it a huge Marvel U crossover event...

Oh, and can someone tell me, what is the deal with Chamber and his Apocalypse look?

Not clear thus far. Ozy remade Chamber in Apoc's image as a replacement i think though

 

[Nathan Petrelli]

anyone got a pic of Chamber?

 

[Havok83]

anyone got a pic of Chamber?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ChamberImage.jpg

 

[Harlekin]

Pooky should've stayed dead after the Search for Cyclops. He ran his course.

 

[Havok83]

Pooky should've stayed dead after the Search for Cyclops. He ran his course.

he should have stayed dead until a worthy writer could create a great story for him. What Milligan did was a travesty

 

[chris moore]

The Clan Akkaba members were descendants of Apoc. Depending on the level of power you had you were considered closer to Apocalypse and therefore higher up the chain of power. One guy, Jack Starsmore (or something) was a firebreather who worked for the police in the late 18th century. He worked with Apoc against Dracula. He appears to be the great grandfather of Chamber, so when Chamber lost his power and became a shell, he was kidnapped by surviving clan members and brought to Ozzymandius who was posing as Apoc to con the clan members. His real plan was to remake a descendant of Nur who would actually want to take him down rathewr than be all "survival of the fittest" - so he repowered Chamber but in a different way. I dont know why in New Warriors Chamber is using tech to simulate sonic powers (other than as a Banshee tribute), because its clear the point of the remake was to give him power.