Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 3

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]356765[/split]

 

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]347023[/split]

 

[moviedoors]

Because of how radically different a human is from a reptile, I'm curious as to how much of the motion capture performance Weta is actually going to end up using.

I'm sure it'll be a mix of motion capture and traditional keyframe animation. Gollum was a mixture of the two, as were certain moments for even the bipedal Na'vi in Avatar. It's just a matter of choosing the best technique for the given shot.

 

[Boom]

Here's a question.

Does the fact that Cumberbatch is performing facial capture for Smaug pretty much confirm that the dragon will speak physically - and not telepathically? Obviously he'll be providing the voice for Smaug, but that can be done in an ADR session. What would be the point of mo-capping his face if he wasn't going to use his mouth in the physical performance?

 

[moviedoors]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure WETA will make it work, but I'm just having a hard time visualizing what it might look like.

That's why their gods at what they do. You'd never guess that the Banshee in Avatar or the Dragon in Beowulf were based on bipeds performances, but it's true. You go with that so you get that real sense of weight that plagues certain keyframe weightless CG characters and creatures. It's easier to get real world data and base the animation on that than it is to just go by scratch. You don't have to fake the physics of motion because you've got data of the real thing.

Just for clarification, I'm aware Beowulf wasn't a Weta project.

 

[obin_gam]

Here's a question.

Does the fact that Cumberbatch is performing facial capture for Smaug pretty much confirm that the dragon will speak physically - and not telepathically? Obviously he'll be providing the voice for Smaug, but that can be done in an ADR session. What would be the point of mo-capping his face if he wasn't going to use his mouth in the physical performance?

I just hope they get the mouht/snout movement right if they are going that route. But I'm not too worried, BC is a fantastic actor and has a great upperclass british voice wich will sound awesome coming from a dragon

 

[moviedoors]

Here's a question.

Does the fact that Cumberbatch is performing facial capture for Smaug pretty much confirm that the dragon will speak physically - and not telepathically? Obviously he'll be providing the voice for Smaug, but that can be done in an ADR session. What would be the point of mo-capping his face if he wasn't going to use his mouth in the physical performance?

Like I said, you just take that data and you go through a long trial and error process of tuning what are essentially CG puppets to accurately convey what the actor did. The face of a dragon obviously doesn't look like Cumberbatch, but if you tune it just right, the performance will still come through loud and clear.

 

[Boom]

So they'd essentially use the performance as inspiration/source material?

 

[moviedoors]

So they'd essentially use the performance as inspiration/source material?

More so that the performance forms the root of the character, and then it takes a talented team of animators to preserve that performance while embellishing the aspects you can't capture with just an actor, like tails and whatnot. It's a true collaboration between the indispensable contributions an actor can give you in terms of body language and animators who have to make it work as something not human.

Like I said, motion capture is an amazing process.

If you haven't already, I suggest you dig into the extra features on the LOTR EE's as well as King Kong. Or better yet, the feature length documentary on the special edition of Avatar. I've blown quite a few minds showing people those.

 

[Boom]

On the topic of motion-capture, I hear Fox is making a push to get Andy Serkis an Oscar nod for Caesar in Rise of the Planet of the Apes.

 

[moviedoors]

On the topic of motion-capture, I hear Fox is making a push to get Andy Serkis an Oscar nod for Caesar in Rise of the Planet of the Apes.

Good. I thought Serkis should've been nominated years ago for the work he did on The Two Towers. Expand the rules a bit so you recognize the actor and the team that made it work digitally. At the end of the day, it's about the performance, and if it took a team, then it took a team, but at the end of the day, that character you see on screen is still a performance, whether it just a flesh and blood actor or digital.

 

[LOBO3315a]

Too many people will be against it, saying the facial expressions are computer generated, etc etc etc.

Personally I think he should have been nominated for Gollum as well.

 

[redhawk23]

I'd argue that they could give him a specialized award, not as a non equal thing to normal actors but just an award that pretty much only he qualifies for. They've done it in the past. I have the utmost respect for Serkis but to discount the work of a number of animators and modelers and programmers and such by putting the sole merit of the performance in general on him would to be unfair.

 

[Spider-Who?]

I'd argue that they could give him a specialized award, not as a non equal thing to normal actors but just an award that pretty much only he qualifies for. They've done it in the past. I have the utmost respect for Serkis but to discount the work of a number of animators and modelers and programmers and such by putting the sole merit of the performance in general on him would to be unfair.

That's what the Best Special Effects award is for.

 

[jacobed]

Which Rise of the Planet of the Apes has already won.

 

[redhawk23]

That's what the Best Special Effects award is for.

And yet the mocapped performance is dependent upon those effects. You can't really separate it and say its the same as normal acting. That'd actually be a disservice to the mo-capper.

 

[Spider-Who?]

And yet the mocapped performance is dependent upon those effects. You can't really separate it and say its the same as normal acting. That'd actually be a disservice to the mo-capper.

You miss my point. You mention worrying about the FX team getting shafted if someone like Serkis wins a "mo-cap" award (for lack of a better term). I'm saying that the FX team already has an award the could win - the Best FX award - so them getting "shafted" isn't really an issue.

Also, in THEORY, by your connection of the two, you could have an Oscar worthy performance from a mo-cap actor, but the FX be poor. Should the actor lose the Oscar because of the poor FX? A director doesn't get an award and feel ignored simply because the actor they directed wins.

I fully understand what you're trying to say - and agree that it takes an entire team to churn out a mo-cap character, but some amount of separation would be needed for there to be a proper award for it.

 

[Boom]

More from Cumberbatch:

It's been a breakout year in the U.S. for Benedict Cumberbatch. Having made a name for himself in the UK with "Sherlock," a modern retelling of Arthur Conan Doyle's famous detective, Cumberbatch appears in two of this year's biggest holiday releases, "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" and "War Horse." While both films have garnered Oscar talk, the project he will begin working on in January may be his biggest yet.

That's when Cumberbatch will head to New Zealand to work on Peter Jackson's two-part "Lord of the Rings" prequel, "The Hobbit." Facing him is a challenge that could intimidate any actor, portraying, both in voice and motion capture, the legendary dragon under the mountain, Smaug.

"I can't wait. I hope it does fans justice," said Cumberbatch, who is currently wrapping on another project before heading to Middle Earth.

Preparing to take on a role of that stature requires Cumberbatch to return to the original source, the book by J.R.R. Tolkien.

"Preparation for something like that is quite unique. I think it will be partly to go with going back to the book, but I sort of want to look at real life serpents and creatures of that ilk, dragons," Cumberbatch said. "He's a reptile, obviously, so it's not like Andy Serkis' work with Gollum. I'm going to be on my belly, so that's going to take a bit of practicing."

To Cumberbatch, Smaug is a much more complicated character than people may give him credit for.

"He's an exceptionally beautiful, vain, devilish and also, in a lightly weird way, an innocent character. He's fooled by an invisible midget," he said. "It's quite frustrating. There's something quite exceptional about the power he has over people and the imagination of that world that is unlocked in this story."

But most of all, Cumberbatch hopes to meet fan expectations. "Obviously, I did something right in the audition," he said. "So tell those fans not to get their daggars sharpened just yet."

SOURCE (with video): http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2011/11/22/benedict-cumberbatch-the-hobbit/

 

[mclay18]

Apparently, that Variety guy who said there'd be a TDKR trailer on Sherlock Holmes 2 says there "might" be a Hobbit teaser on it too.

I guess it depends on whether WETA can rush out a few visual effects shots in time...

 

[Kane52630]

Well they are doing the effects while filming so it's possible. I'd love to see it.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Apparently, that Variety guy who said there'd be a TDKR trailer on Sherlock Holmes 2 says there "might" be a Hobbit teaser on it too.

I guess it depends on whether WETA can rush out a few visual effects shots in time...

Here's hoping!

 

[Boom]

Sir Peter's great southern inspiration

Sir Peter Jackson says the sunshine, mountains and fresh air of Arcadia Station, near Queenstown, have raised both his spirits and those of his 450 cast and crew.

Sir Peter spoke in between scenes where Sir Ian McKellan as Gandalf the Grey, Martin Freeman as Bilbo Baggins and dwarves arrive at the house of Beorn (Mikael Persbrandt).

Tuesday was their third and final day of shooting on a giant set, which took eight weeks to build and was based on more than eight months of design - all for one scene of about three minutes of screen time.

"This is such a beautiful area, 360 degrees, everywhere you look, incredible scenery," Sir Peter said.

"In fact, the scene where Boromir dies in The Fellowship of the Ring was about 100 yards [90m] into that forest there."

Sir Peter said The Hobbit had been "a strange journey for me" as he originally thought he would produce and not direct the eagerly awaited movies.

"Even though it was frustrating at the times and a little bit stressful from time to time, we're here and making the movies and it seems like it was meant to be."

Sir Peter said shooting the two Hobbit films felt like a reunion and "feels like we're doing it for the right reasons".

The audience knew what to expect, but he still wanted to surprise them.

Filming in 3D for the first time provided greater depth and he loved the way Middle Earth was coming to life in a more vibrant way, he said.

"You'll literally feel like you've stepped into the story," he said.

The company shot in Hamilton, Ohakune, bluffs near Te Kuiti, Strath Taieri, near Middlemarch and near Paradise over the past three weeks. All cast and crew and gear were loaded on to 200 trucks and moved to Te Anau yesterday for more filming.

Asked if he felt the weight of expectation on his shoulders, Sir Peter said: "All I can do is make the best movie I can and hope people enjoy it. It's going to have a different tone to The Lord of the Rings because the characters are quite a lot different.

"The book was very much written for a much younger reader than Lord of the Rings was, but I didn't want to make a children's movie, I still wanted to have some of the main themes we had in the Rings."

SOURCE: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10768284

 

[Wolfwood]

I've been out of the loop for a long while. I've just now read that Sherlock Holmes will play the dragon. **** yes. I can't freakin wait for this movie.

 

[Victarion]

I am glad to hear he will be shooting for a tone closer to the actual book. I find that I prefer the Hobbit. Its easier to get into and has a more magical feel about it.

 

[Superhero 101]

Apparently, that Variety guy who said there'd be a TDKR trailer on Sherlock Holmes 2 says there "might" be a Hobbit teaser on it too.

I guess it depends on whether WETA can rush out a few visual effects shots in time...

I bet it will be just a bunch of Voice Over and showing Middle Earth and maybe a shot of the dwarves and bilbo and gandalf