Dread's a Wolverine hater so his constant railing and criticism of the show rather than just embracing it doesn't surprise me.
I'm honestly not. Wait for my review of HULK VS. WOLVERINE in the Marvel Movies topic and then tell me I hate him.
Look characters have flaws, they aren't perfect. It's interesting because Wolverine isn't a perfect leader. He likes to do things on his own. He gets angry very easily. He goes headfast into conflicts without always thinking.
I find all these situations interesting because the X-men now have a leader who is the antithesis of a good leader.
But as Dread pointed out, no one ever calls him on it. It seems like the other X-Men are either afraid of him, or they just don't really care that much.
Exactly. My argument isn't that I am disappointed that Logan is not a perfect leader. My issue is how none of the other characters express any differing opinion or call him on an error, or when he is being stubborn, or hypocritical.
In the third episode, Beast was reluctant to go after Magneto and thinking he was behind the explosion.
They hadn't really been organized at that point and Logan was only de facto leader.
A rare instance. He generally gets away with being a bad leader and a colossal hypocrite without anyone saying anything.
Rare or not, it still happened.
Also, I still don't get how Wolverine acts like a colossal hypocrit.
His leaving on away missions did not endanger the public or expose them like Cyclops so carelessly did in episode 12.
You're right, it did happen. And in episode 12, while we are at it, Emma Frost criticizes Logan not supporting Scott on his own solo mission, even alluding to his recent trip into Canada.
That's twice. In 14 episodes, that any character has even hinted at disagreeing with something Logan did. I simply don't think that is enough to carry the idea of a "messed up team with a messed up leader", or a team that isn't as cohesive as other X-Men teams. Cyclops got more argument than that in every X-cartoon yet made.
His basic message to Cyclops was, to paraphrase, "either we do it as a team, or we don't do it at all." Did Logan even tell the others where he was going, what he was doing, or why he needed the aircraft?
If it was offscreen he might've.
Now Vile is assuming it happened off screen? Lord.
If you are assuming that, then I will assume that because no one made a big deal about Cyclops "endangering civilians", it was a non issue. No one got hurt. Everyone ran away. No one complained about it in the show. The audience usually doesn't care about public damage in superhero fights. If Superman destroyed several city blocks to save Lois & Jimmy, no one ever complains.
You might say that Logan's solo adventures "don't drag the X-Men into them". But, see, that is a mistake. NOT involving the X-Men has made those Weapon X investigations, especially this episode, more dangerous. Saving Christy and Maverick would have gone down a lot easier with some of the X-Men there. Instead Logan only trucks out Frost once everything is done. Really, the only difference is that Cyclops failed to overcome his enemy alone, while Logan either does or has circumstance (or a woman) save him. Heck, Christy would have been safer had Logan brought her to the X-Mansion sooner, like he did for Tilde last episode.
usagicassidy said:
I'm gonna have to highly disagree with you on that. Had we been talking about Lifeguard or Slipstream or Sketch or even Spyke, I would've agreed with you. However, since X-23's "birth", she's become much more of an interesting character than Wolverine ever was. Wolverine has to deal with what was done to him in the past - we get flashbacks and senses of what he's dealt with, but he's dealing with them on a much later level, having forgotten most of it. X-23 has been living it since birth...and she still remembers vividly every mission, every target. She killed her own "mother" and host family for gosh sakes.
Okay, so she was incredibly misused when she was incorporated into Uncanny X-Men. But that was Claremont... Other than that, she's been one of my favorite characters - with the X-23 origins and Target X mini's being some of my favorite stories of the '00's.
But what is the end result? X-23 acts either emotionless, traumatized, or angry. She has no depth beyond that thin emotional range. Does she has perfect reason to be like that? Sure. Does it make her a character I want to invest more into? No. I usually find her boring.
At best, X-23 is an allegory of what Logan may be like had he never escaped Weapon X, or been dragged into their system at a younger age.
A stale emotionless character with an interesting origin is still a stale emotionless character with an interesting origin. Until X-23 has a name and a personality beyond "ragh, slash 'cuz it is all I know!" it will be hard for me to get into her character.
rigins used this...it would've more character depth for Mystique instead of just being 2nd in command to Magneto...
