Comics Oh, Come On!!!!

[Kevin]

Meh, I can really care less what happens with Peter anymore. I care more for Mary-Jane and Aunt May, anyway.

 

[freemadison]

THis is KILLING me...KILLING me.
Someone's got to put a stop to this.

What the HELL is going on?
Why are they doing this to a FLAGSHIP character?

I am so freaking full of anger.

and to read the lame ass "fans" talking about "bumping him down", or defending this crap.

I don't know which is worst. QEusada raping spidey or the so called fans accepting the rape.

GET IT STRAIGHT PEOPLE. SPIDER-MAN IS THE FLAGSHIP HERO OF THE MU. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS? SPIDER-MAN IS THE BEST AT WHAT HE DOES.
THE POUND FOR POUND BEST HERO OF THE MU.
HE LIFTS 10 TONS,..DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS? IT MEANS CAP WOLVERINE, DD, ETC. COULDN'T HOPE TO BE IN HIS CLASS. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SPIDEY AND CAP IS GREATER THAN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HULK AND SPIDER-MAN. WOULD BE BE OK TO HAVE SPIDEY KNOCK HULK AROUND LIKE A RAG DOLL?
NOT TO MENTION SPIDEY'S SPEED WHICH IS WAY MORE THAN THOSE GUYS, PLUS HIS SPIDEY SENSE.

YOU "FANS" ARE EITHER AS STUPID AS QUESADA AND HIS CRONIES
OR THE DESTRUCTION OF SM HAS WORKED TO THE POINT WHERE YOU THINK HE IS THE BUM THEY'VE MADE HIM OUT TO BE.

THIS IS CRAPPP

??????

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

The subject of this thread has LONG, LONG.....LONG been an issue for me.

Bottom line, in the given situation with what wasn't seen nad however many operatives or whatever chasing him, even if Spidey couldn't beat them in a straight up fight (Which he should know not to even attempt), he should have at least been able to outsmart and escape them.

It's like these guys are too bad at writing to make Spidey his supporting cast, and even his villains to have some level of smarts.

it's not just "the operativess" Peter had to outsmart and escape from, but the entire SHIELD organization, who possess some of the best technology in the Marvel Universe, currently supplemented by Reed Richards, Tony Stark, and Hank Pym.

Sorry, but in THIS case, Peter ain't going NOWHERE. They've already tracked him and The Punisher back to the Anti-Regs hideout.

 

[Vile]

It doesnt bother me that Pete got his ass handed to him by two second stringers...

Who the hell is The Jester anyways?

What bothers me is Jack O'Lantern.

His character seems to pop up every couple of months just to fullfill the damn cliche mercenary character...Which really hasnt been seen since Macendale donned the pumpkin helmet.

After him, you had NUMEROUS appearances, but certainly not with the same person under the helmet.

He was featured in The Hood series - nothing special, just a merc.
In the Clone Saga - I dont think he got even one line, hanging out really - a bounty hunter
Then LATER, the character changed to 'Mad Jack' (Obviously showcasing Maguire Beck)

And now back to Merc? Maguire Beck was only interested in revenge, not money...is Jack O' Lantern just a costumed identity that passes from one John Doe to another?

Give him/her a definite identity already!

 

[SpideyInATree]

So, when does the next # of AmazingSM come out?

Amazing Spider-Man # 536 comes out this Wednesday and I'm highly anticipating that bad boy.

 

[Dragon]

it's not just "the operativess" Peter had to outsmart and escape from, but the entire SHIELD organization, who possess some of the best technology in the Marvel Universe, currently supplemented by Reed Richards, Tony Stark, and Hank Pym.

Sorry, but in THIS case, Peter ain't going NOWHERE. They've already tracked him and The Punisher back to the Anti-Regs hideout.

How many times has Peter overcome opponents with superior power and technology? Spidey is who he is because he can beat the odds.

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

Actually, the 52 does NOT refer to weeks after all. It's been used by the OA guardians in a different context, so no one has any clue what it means anymore.

IMO, the writers decided to impliment the whole '52' thing in the book so that the title actually ties into the story, instead of 52 just meaning "Hey, each book takes place over a week, and after all 52 issues are released it'll take place over a whole year."

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

How many times has Peter overcome opponents with superior power and technology? Spidey is who he is because he can beat the odds.

How many times have those opponents been Reed Richards, Hank Pym, AND Tony Stark?

And SHIELD has had intel on Peter for YEARS. Ever read Nick Fury's file on Spider- Man which includes Peter's psychological weaknesess? SHIELD should have no problem remaining one step ahead of Peter, ESPECIALLY while he's being harried by over a dozen super villains.

 

[Sloth7d]

Amazing Spider-Man # 536 comes out this Wednesday and I'm highly anticipating that bad boy.

Thanks.

 

[Sloth7d]

How many times has Peter overcome opponents with superior power and technology? Spidey is who he is because he can beat the odds.

I agree with this. But in this situation, if Amazing Spiderman #536 shows that he battled more enemies before Jester and Jack-o-lantern then I can understand how he was defeated by the two. If not, then I still hold my opinion that this is bull--.

 

[Dragon]

How many times have those opponents been Reed Richards, Hank Pym, AND Tony Stark?

He's not actually fighting any of them. He's fighting technology developed by them. And yeah, Spidey could certainly beat both Reed Richards and Hank Pym in a fight. At the same time. Stark, that's another matter, but it doesn't appear that he's actually fighting him, otherwise he wouldn't need the Jester and Jack O' Lantern to bring Peter in.

And SHIELD has had intel on Peter for YEARS. Ever read Nick Fury's file on Spider- Man which includes Peter's psychological weaknesess? SHIELD should have no problem remaining one step ahead of Peter, ESPECIALLY while he's being harried by over a dozen super villains.

Of course, I guess it doesn't matter that having that "intel" would be impossible. If SHIELD could so closely follow Spidey, then they'd be able to have the goods on every villain and be able to lock them down with little to no help from the heroes. Such retconning is about as valid as.. well, pretty much every other retcon.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

He's not actually fighting any of them. He's fighting technology developed by them. And yeah, Spidey could certainly beat both Reed Richards and Hank Pym in a fight. At the same time. Stark, that's another matter, but it doesn't appear that he's actually fighting him, otherwise he wouldn't need the Jester and Jack O' Lantern to bring Peter in.



Of course, I guess it doesn't matter that having that "intel" would be impossible. If SHIELD could so closely follow Spidey, then they'd be able to have the goods on every villain and be able to lock them down with little to no help from the heroes. Such retconning is about as valid as.. well, pretty much every other retcon.

Wow, Peter can beat Hank Pym? Is that the same Hank Pym who took on Iron Man, Captain America, Wonder Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Black Panther, and The Beast all at the same time in Avengers #161, and kicked their collective asses? I seem to remember Peter getting schooled by Captain America alone just recently, as well as in the past...

And Reed Richards can't be physically hurt. What's Peter going to do? Out THINK him?

These are the smartest men in The Marvel Universe, equipting the best military in the Marvel Universe. Peter's never faced anything like that before.

And the SHIELD intel is not a retcon. It was established that they had figured out who Spider-man was by gathering DNA samples at the scene of one of his battles YEARS ago in the Spider-Man/Wolverine mini series.

Incidently; almost all active villains have been captured or recruited. (see recent issues of Thunderbolts).

 

[Dragon]

Wow, Peter can beat Hank Pym? Is that the same Hank Pym who took on Iron Man, Captain America, Wonder Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Black Panther, and The Beast all at the same time in Avengers #161, and kicked their collective asses? I seem to remember Peter getting schooled by Captain America alone just recently, as well as in the past...

Oh please. One fight where for a few seconds he had the team confused. And mostly because of his army of ants, and the fact that the other Avengers didn't want to hurt him, knowing that he was suffering from mental issues. And the Wasp took him out quick and easy.

And Reed Richards can't be physically hurt. What's Peter going to do? Out THINK him?

Cap, I'm not some noob. My silver age collection is as deep as yours. YES. REED CAN BE HURT. He's been injured too many times to count. He can even be injured just by stretching beyond his limit.

These are the smartest men in The Marvel Universe, equipting the best military in the Marvel Universe. Peter's never faced anything like that before.

He's fought Doom, he's fought Ock, the Owl, The Wizard, The Thinker and their collective gangs/armies. Many more than that even. All of those guys easily rival Richards et al. If Spidey can outsmart them he can deal with Richards and the others.

And the SHIELD intel is not a retcon. It was established that they had figured out who Spider-man was by gathering DNA samples at the scene of one of his battles YEARS ago in the Spider-Man/Wolverine mini series.

So, upon collecting Spidey's DNA they went on a search of the millions of people in New York to find Peter? Even though Peter was always so protective of his blood being compromised? This is how they devote their time? That's believable.

Incidently; almost all active villains have been captured or recruited. (see recent issues of Thunderbolts).

So, they wait FOR THIS to incarcerate all these villains. Otherwise they let them roam free and try to track down Peter

 

[pussywillow1972]

you just don't get it at all. no clue whatsoever,...

Actually junior, I do get it.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Oh please. One fight where for a few seconds he had the team confused. And mostly because of his army of ants, and the fact that the other Avengers didn't want to hurt him, knowing that he was suffering from mental issues. And the Wasp took him out quick and easy.



Cap, I'm not some noob. My silver age collection is as deep as yours. YES. REED CAN BE HURT. He's been injured too many times to count. He can even be injured just by stretching beyond his limit.



He's fought Doom, he's fought Ock, the Owl, The Wizard, The Thinker and their collective gangs/armies. Many more than that even. All of those guys easily rival Richards et al. If Spidey can outsmart them he can deal with Richards and the others.



So, upon collecting Spidey's DNA they went on a search of the millions of people in New York to find Peter? Even though Peter was always so protective of his blood being compromised? This is how they devote their time? That's believable.



So, they wait FOR THIS to incarcerate all these villains. Otherwise they let them roam free and try to track down Peter

So what, Pym's not allowed to use his army of ants in a fight with Spider-Man? And please; we BOTH know Jan only got the drop on him because he didnt expect her to turn on him (nice try though, lol). And Reed's body has resisted high caliber bullets, explosions, and even Wolverine's claws (which have injured The Hulk). Again; What's Peter going to do to him?

And while Doom comes close, Reed has proven his intellectual superiority over him time and again. And Stark fought Doom to a standstill in Iron Man #150 with a far less technological suit then he uses today. The Wizard? He can't even defeat a moron like Johnny Storm! Ock? The undisputed master of nuclear physics, true, but Reed's inferior in all other fields. The Owl? You're kidding me, right?

No, Peter's never had to deal with tech on the level of Reed, Stark, or Pym before. THEY are Marvel's top scientists, not The Wizard, or The Owl (lol).

In regards to SHIELD and Peter's DNA; Yes, apparently that's exactly what happened. The FBI does it in the real world all the time. You have no problem accepting a universe where a kid gets bitten by a radioactive spider and gains extraordinairy powers, yet scoff at the notion of an organization like SHIELD getting a blood or tissue sample and searching for a match? Even though we've seen Peter hospitalized several times in the past? Heh. Ok man....

And no, large groups of villains have been shown to be incarcerated PLENTY of times in the past. As recently as New Avengers #1, and as far back as the Acts Of Vengeance & Project Pegasus storylines. If the villains never escaped, we wouldn't have anything to read about now, would we?

 

[iloveclones]

In regards to SHIELD and Peter's DNA; Yes, apparently that's exactly what happened. The FBI does it in the real world all the time. You have no problem accepting a universe where a kid gets bitten by a radioactive spider and gains extraordinairy powers, yet scoff at the notion of an organization like SHIELD getting a blood or tissue sample and searching for a match? Even though we've seen Peter hospitalized several times in the past? Heh. Ok man....

Add to that the fact that if SHIELD (or anyone), realistically wanted to know who Spidey was, Peter Parker would be one of the first people they would put under scrutiny. I mean, hell, he was publicly unmasked by issue #12 (that may have even beat Bendis over in Ultimate!) Coming up with some of the lame excuses that Pete has finagled over the years may have fooled JJJ, but I would expect Nick Fury to be a little more skeptical. Being that Pete was also incarcerated, I'm sure they could've finagled a blood test. Or, when Pete worked for Osborne or that company right after Chapter One (I forget the name), he may have had to take a drug test, which SHIELD could have "acquired."

 

[Kevin]

I'm with CaptainStacy on this.

 

[Dragon]

So what, Pym's not allowed to use his army of ants in a fight with Spider-Man? And please; we BOTH know Jan only got the drop on him because he didnt expect her to turn on him (nice try though, lol).

So, you actually think that Antman would've beaten the Avengers, including Captain America, even though he's never had a moment, before or since like Avengers #161. And again, only got as far as he did due to surprise and the sympathy of his fellow Avengers. And his not expecting Jan to turn on him didn't eliminate his ability to move. He was beaten because he's beatable.

And Reed's body has resisted high caliber bullets, explosions, and even Wolverine's claws (which have injured The Hulk). Again; What's Peter going to do to him?

Web him up. Blunt force trauma. Electrocute him. Expose him to knock-out gas. Heat. Cold.

And while Doom comes close, Reed has proven his intellectual superiority over him time and again. And Stark fought Doom to a standstill in Iron Man #150 with a far less technological suit then he uses today. The Wizard? He can't even defeat a moron like Johnny Storm! Ock? The undisputed master of nuclear physics, true, but Reed's inferior in all other fields. The Owl? You're kidding me, right? No, Peter's never had to deal with tech on the level of Reed, Stark, or Pym before. THEY are Marvel's top scientists, not The Wizard, or The Owl (lol)

Come now. Peter's traversed FF headquarters, and given the entire FF a tussle. And, I don't know why you're trying to make it as though the Owl isn't dangerous. He's one of the top crime bosses in the MU. But the main point is, that Peter has been established as someone who thinks on his feet, even while facing super geniuses. He can strategize and come up with ways to defeat highly intelligent, well armed foes. And- again- he's not fighting Reed Richards, Stark or Pym. He's fighting people using their technology. These commandos don't have fighting ability or experience on Peter's level. Not even close. So, even if Peter can't beat their numbers or technology he and his SPIDER SENSE can escape them.

In regards to SHIELD and Peter's DNA; Yes, apparently that's exactly what happened. The FBI does it in the real world all the time. You have no problem accepting a universe where a kid gets bitten by a radioactive spider and gains extraordinairy powers, yet scoff at the notion of an organization like SHIELD getting a blood or tissue sample and searching for a match? Even though we've seen Peter hospitalized several times in the past? Heh. Ok man....

I'm saying that something like SHIELD has their priorities. Dealing with actual threats takes priority over chasing after those established to be on their side. In a world where Dr. Doom and Hydra exists, they don't have time to investigate Spider-Man.

And thanks for mentioning the FBI- a perfect example of just how imperfect such agencies are. They often fail to complete investigations (such as Sept. 11).

And no, large groups of villains have been shown to be incarcerated PLENTY of times in the past. As recently as New Avengers #1, and as far back as the Acts Of Vengeance & Project Pegasus storylines. If the villains never escaped, we wouldn't have anything to read about now, would we?

You can't use that as a valuable reason for SHIELD to know Spidey's every move, but not villains who, as you mentioned, have been incarcerated and whose movements are easier to track. Everytime any villain makes a move, SHIELD should be there ready to swallow them up.

And based on the event of CW, with the technology of Richards, Pym and Stark at their dispoal, we'd realisitically not have "anything to read about" again.

 

[Themanofbat]

Well, all I'm gonna add is that it's kind of obvious that Peter went through some kind of beating/trauma between the jumping outa Stark Towers window and running through the sewers.

It's the only valid explanation for what happened afterwards between Mad Jack & the Jester.

And we'll have to wait and see for ASM #536.

If not, then obviously every writer at Marvel, including the editors, have forgotten who Spider-Man is and what he's capable of.

As myself, Captain Stacy & Dragon obviously know, Spidey has been in near death situations MANY times in the past, and while he's used his wits to get himself to safety, there have been a few occasions where the always good looking lady luck has been on his side. He's not Superman and he can be beaten by any foe at any given time (depending on the circumstances), and I'm going to wait and see what exactly transpired in ASM #536 before passing judgement.

Cheers...

 

[Cullen]

Well, all I'm gonna add is that it's kind of obvious that Peter went through some kind of beating/trauma between the jumping outa Stark Towers window and running through the sewers.

It's the only valid explanation for what happened afterwards between Mad Jack & the Jester.

And we'll have to wait and see for ASM #536.

If not, then obviously every writer at Marvel, including the editors, have forgotten who Spider-Man is and what he's capable of.

As myself, Captain Stacy & Dragon obviously know, Spidey has been in near death situations MANY times in the past, and while he's used his wits to get himself to safety, there have been a few occasions where the always good looking lady luck has been on his side. He's not Superman and he can be beaten by any foe at any given time (depending on the circumstances), and I'm going to wait and see what exactly transpired in ASM #536 before passing judgement.

Cheers...

But, again, you shouldn't have to wait. If there is something in there that explains something else that happens in Civil War #5, it really should have been in CW #5.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

So, you actually think that Antman would've beaten the Avengers, including Captain America, even though he's never had a moment, before or since like Avengers #161. And again, only got as far as he did due to surprise and the sympathy of his fellow Avengers. And his not expecting Jan to turn on him didn't eliminate his ability to move. He was beaten because he's beatable.



Web him up. Blunt force trauma. Electrocute him. Expose him to knock-out gas. Heat. Cold.



Come now. Peter's traversed FF headquarters, and given the entire FF a tussle. And, I don't know why you're trying to make it as though the Owl isn't dangerous. He's one of the top crime bosses in the MU. But the main point is, that Peter has been established as someone who thinks on his feet, even while facing super geniuses. He can strategize and come up with ways to defeat highly intelligent, well armed foes. And- again- he's not fighting Reed Richards, Stark or Pym. He's fighting people using their technology. These commandos don't have fighting ability or experience on Peter's level. Not even close. So, even if Peter can't beat their numbers or technology he and his SPIDER SENSE can escape them.



I'm saying that something like SHIELD has their priorities. Dealing with actual threats takes priority over chasing after those established to be on their side. In a world where Dr. Doom and Hydra exists, they don't have time to investigate Spider-Man.

And thanks for mentioning the FBI- a perfect example of just how imperfect such agencies are. They often fail to complete investigations (such as Sept. 11).



You can't use that as a valuable reason for SHIELD to know Spidey's every move, but not villains who, as you mentioned, have been incarcerated and whose movements are easier to track. Everytime any villain makes a move, SHIELD should be there ready to swallow them up.

And based on the event of CW, with the technology of Richards, Pym and Stark at their dispoal, we'd realisitically not have "anything to read about" again.

In Avengers #161 during the bout with Ant Man, Vision calculated that Pym would eventually win, so no, i don't THINK Pym would have won, i KNOW it. And are you SURE Ant Man "never had a moment like that since"? Let me direct you to the Avengers: Siege storyline where Scot Lang used Pym's technology to defeat The Absorbing Man. You'll love it.

"heat, cold, knock-out gas.." Since when does Peter have these at hand? You must be thinking of BATman, not SPIDER-Man lol. And giving the FF "a tussle" in no way equates a victory over Reed Richards, regardless.

Shield doesnt have time to investigate Spider-Man? Apparently you're mistaken, as it happened already in the Spider-Man/Wolverine mini series. And this is the first time Shield, Richards, Stark, and Pym have exchanged technology on such a significant level. Who's to say they WON'T "be there ready to swallow up" any and all opposition?

We'll have to wait and see how Civil War plays out in the end.

 

[Themanofbat]

But, again, you shouldn't have to wait. If there is something in there that explains something else that happens in Civil War #5, it really should have been in CW #5.

Well, even if I didn't read the Civil War tie-ins, you can tell something happened by the fact that Spidey's costume is pretty inatct when he jumps out of Stark Towers, yet is tattered in the sewers.

But you are right... I should be able to read it in Civil War.

But marketing stragedies dictate that Marvel use these tie-ins to get people to buy their books. Wether we like it or not, the idea of tie-ins is to get more people buying books that they might never look at in the event that they might keep on buying it. Comic book events have been designed that way for over 20 years, so it's really not surprising.... at least not to me.

Also, seeing how things developped after they occured in one book is not really a new idea.

Back in 1984, we had to wait EIGHT WHOLE MONTHS to see how Spider-Man got his cool new black costume.



However, these days, people have the internet to fuss over things like this...

 

[Dragon]

In Avengers #161 during the bout with Ant Man, Vision calculated that Pym would eventually win, so no, i don't THINK Pym would have won, i KNOW it.

Considering that he LOST, I'd say the Vision's "calculations" were faulty. Especially considering that the Vision himself could've easily taken down Pym he if he tried. His intangibility, density coupled with his solar blasts would fry Pym and his ant army.

And are you SURE Ant Man "never had a moment like that since"? Let me direct you to the Avengers: Siege storyline where Scot Lang used Pym's technology to defeat The Absorbing Man. You'll love it.

Uh.. That's a different Antman. And as trite as Marvel is, YOU KNOW if they put an underdog like Antman against Absorbing Man, Antman will win.

"heat, cold, knock-out gas.." Since when does Peter have these at hand? You must be thinking of BATman, not SPIDER-Man lol.

How did he have them at hand when he defeated the likes of the Lizard, Electro, the Rhino and Sandman? Answer: He finds them. He tears open walls, mixes up chemical concoxtions from things he finds in janitor closets. And if he fought Reed in a lab- Oh boy. He'd go to town. That's Spidey.

And giving the FF "a tussle" in no way equates a victory over Reed Richards, regardless.

Yeah, but has Reed, even accompanied by his crew beaten Spidey? Come close? Or does Spidey keep hassling them until they come to an accord?

Shield doesnt have time to investigate Spider-Man? Apparently you're mistaken, as it happened already in the Spider-Man/Wolverine mini series.

Sure, and if so desired, editorial can have Superman brought down with a pea shooter. I'm talking about what's plausible, not any cockamamy idea that Marvel tosses out there.

And this is the first time Shield, Richards, Stark, and Pym have exchanged technology on such a significant level. Who's to say they WON'T "be there ready to swallow up" any and all opposition?

Like you said, we won't have anythng to read. So they'll be failing again soon. Which goes back to the original point- If ANYONE can escape their technology and defeat their drones, its Spider-Man.

 

[stillanerd]

But, again, you shouldn't have to wait. If there is something in there that explains something else that happens in Civil War #5, it really should have been in CW #5.

Exactly. If the idea is that Spidey in trying to retreat was overwhelmed by superior numbers of foes, then why not show this in the actual series instead of having it take place off panel and thus leaving a major storytelling moment up to a tie-in issue? And that's been one of the problems Civil War has been having in general, in that there are important plot and character developments happening outside the main series when they should be taking place within the main series itself. Not to mention allowing for VERY inconsistant continuity, as we have ASM #535 with Stark saying that the negative zone prision was a permanent solution while in Civil War #5 he's telling Peter it's only temporary.

 

[Themanofbat]

Exactly. If the idea is that Spidey in trying to retreat was overwhelmed by superior numbers of foes, then why not show this in the actual series instead of having it take place off panel and thus leaving a major storytelling moment up to a tie-in issue? And that's been one of the problems Civil War has been having in general, in that there are important plot and character developments happening outside the main series when they should be taking place within the main series itself.

Again, these things would have made Civil War a MUCH bigger story to tell, and to tell bits in the main book while dwelving details in tie-ins make for better sales.

I don't like it any more than you do, but Marvel's not the only company guilty of such actions nor will this be the last of such things.

Not to mention allowing for VERY inconsistant continuity, as we have ASM #535 with Stark saying that the negative zone prision was a permanent solution while in Civil War #5 he's telling Peter it's only temporary.

I think Tony was trying to tell Peter "what he wanted to hear" seeing as the truth is what set him off to the other side.

At least... that's how I saw it.