HoratioRome said:
that may be true, but that has always been the case with Spider-man. Spider-man has always worried about his family and has fought plenty of friends in the past. He has also faced multiple foes at once as well. It still doesn't explain why a "spider-man fan" would be arguing for his defeat and humiliation. Keep in mind that the thread was not just about this single battle, but the overall treatment of SM over the past few years.
I think we'd all agree of Spider-Man's porr handling over the last few years at Marvel, including CaptainStacy himself. Having said that, I don't believe he was arguing for his defeat and humiliation, but rather trying to find a plausible way as to WHY the story occured the way it did. It's easy for everybody to raise their arms in the air and cry fowl, but sometimes, if you can look hard enough, you can find a plausible reason... and I believe that's what he was doing in order for him to enjoy the book he's reading. He may not like seeing Spidey humiliated, but like a good Spider-Man fan that he is, you can bet he's licking his chops for when Spidey Fights Back.
At least, I hope he does... 
HoratioRome said:
that may also be true but again it's no excuse to now almost be attacking the character you claim to be a fan of; especially in an unfair manner. He uses all of his logic to put down SM while building up other people. His logic gives everyone else the benefit of the doubt but spider-man. He focuses on ONE good thing a character does, ignores all the other times he's been less than an average fighter in order to argue how invincible he is, but,...at the same time, ignores the many times Spider-man has overcome great odds, and focuses of the few times he's had trouble, in order to argue how weak he is.
I'm just wondering what kind of "fan" that is.
Trust me... he's a great fan of Spidey, as he is also a great fan of good storytelling.
I think the Hank Pym defense just got out of hand.... in my opinion.
HoratioRome said:
you can NEVER blame a guy for having an opinion. But you can question a guy's logic, and motive. And I disagree with your assertion that he has a well "rounded knowledge and respect for the Marvel SH". Anyone who thinks that Ant Man is powerfull doesn't really know Marvel at all, (regardless of that single Avengers issue). Anyone who thinks that Reed Richards is primarily a fighter rather than a great leader and even greater scientists doesn't get Marvel at all (remember we are not arguing about Peter outsmarting reed. We are arguing about Peter figthting his way out. So Reed was probably not even involved. and if he's talking about going up against Reed's technology, well he should know that SM has never had a problem with Reed's weapons and technology in the past.)
But look back at his original comments.... he was asserting that Hank Pym was a genius... not necessarily powerful, but a genius nonetheless with the ability to create top notch weaponry. Read the current "Beyond" mini-series (which is fabulous 80's style super-hero storytelling, btw
) to see how uselful & ressourceful Pym can be.
And considering the odds, I think Spidey was overwhelmed by making this HUGE decision, attacked by the weaponry of SHIELD, Pym's, Richards' & Stark's... and then possibly recieved a smackdown by some of the toughest foes in the Marvel Universe (at least, tough when compared to Spidey).
Having known and read CaptainStacy's posts here for over 6 years, I don't have to question his love of the Marvel Universe. However, you are entitled to your own opinions.
HoratioRome said:
you know, that's a common misconception about Spidey. People often think that he's been "knocked out" by regular humans, or beaten by lesser foes. The truth is that those thing do not happen (except for the occasional horribly written comic). Spider-man has consistently defeated not only human level foes, but some rather powerfull ones as well. I think this idea comes from the fact that SM seemingly struggles against much weaker foes Such as Kingpin, DD, or the Prowler. for example he will fall down from a punch from Kingpin or DD (which makes no sense at all). But I ask you to read those books carefully. You will find that though he falls from those punches, they have no effect on him whatsoever. So though I know you're not the only one to think so, the truth is that no, he has not "almost gotten killed many times by foes just as lame" not at all. in fact in the early days, Stan Lee always made a point to give him a handicap whenever he faced those kinds of enemies. btw, Superman had the same problem for most of his carreer.
But as much as we've seen Spidey taken down by the likes of the Lizard, the Scorpion, Venom, Doc Ock and the Goblins... there have been times when we seen him beaten by the likes of Fusion II, Boomerang, the Fly, Mindworm, the Hitman, the Puma, Hammerhead, Stilt-Man, heck, even the White Rabbit... and that's just out of the top of my head.
If Spidey had to face heavy hitters all the time, then his comics would be boring. Good stroytelling can mean that even the lamest villain can sometimes get the upperhand on Spidey, but he always lands on his feet.
And that variety of villains has always made Spidey fun to read.
And let's face it, Marvel is also trying to pump up the Punisher for his new comic, so a couple of bullets to the heads of villains we don't care about is what the point of having them beat Spidey was for. I doubt Marvel would have allowed Frank Castle to put a bullet in Norman Osborn's head.
HoratioRome said:
He may not be invincible but he's certainly one of the best, if not the best around, so to have him humiliated and defeated by bums, is upseting. and for me, regardless of whether SM fought the whole MU in the ASM issue, it still doesn't resolve my problem (unless he kicked some serious ass), because my and I think other's problem is not this single fight. It's the attitude Marvel has had towards their flagship character. Having punisher rescuing Spider-man, having him beaten by the jester? when there are so many more complimentary ways to have SM escape, and so many more dignified foes to have him lose to, and so many more powerful Superheroes to be rescued by (if you HAD to have those humiliating things happen to him). It's almost as if Marvel is hell bent on lessening and destrying this guy.
THAT is our problem with this, and nothing (well almost nothing) that happens in ASM will fix that.
Well, I will agree with you that Marvel seems to be doing a piss poor job at handling Spidey these last few years, but I will admit that Sarcosa on Sensational is doing a wonderful job writing that book using old supporting cast members, classic villains, AND a respect for continuity.
HoratioRome said:
Please let me know what happens cause I won't be buying it. Oh and how much do you want to bet that SM will NOT be kicking the ass we (including you) feels he should kick. My bet is that Marvel will clearly demonstrate that SM is the weaker between him and IM, that though he will get some blows in, it will mostly be him escaping and running away like some *****. And when/if the others join in, it will be pretty much SM getting his ass kicked while every once in a while getting some blows in. He will be running away the whole fight trying to escpape these impossible odds.
I want to keep my hopes up, but I'm afraid I'll be disappointed.
But then again, I won't know until I read it.
And we'll keep you posted.
HoratioRome said:
What's NOT going to happen? SM is not going to kick ass and take names. He will NOT defeat his foes, and ask more of them to "come on", "bring it". He will not even defeat a single one of them I bet.....
Well, as I said, we don't know the circumstances, but Spidey has been smart enough to run away from an impossible situation before in the past.
We'll have to wait and see....
