Comics OMD/Clone Saga/Joey Q. discussion.

[Styleshift]

God, I count those stories as being some of the worst in Spidey's history...

Guess I am getting old.

Those were good stories. ALL of them showed Peter's vulnerability. that he's no Superman. he can't always rely on his own powers to win a fight.

I do agree however that the Spidey armor could have been portrayed better...but it was STILL a good idea

 

[Styleshift]

Regressing is never good story telling....
so tell me....Why Pick up Amazing Spider-man if I'm getting almost the same thing in ultimate Spider-man? Why waste my money on both?

while they are both different ages.
theres no longer any real story progression. they both wise crack.
Ultimate Spider-man's quality is much higher than Amazing Spidey. it shows what can happen when not TOTALLY forced in a certain direction.

They basically said ok we give up with one more day. If you want an example of how to tell amazing spider-man. Marvel knights took the adult Spider-man and did it RIGHT.
when I read it I couldn't get enough. I hadn't enjoyed a Spidey story in soooo long.
It's like Mark Miller took Ultimate Spider-man. and cranked the notch up to 11. which made since seeing that he's the adult version of spidey for a reason.
It made me appreciate just how far he's come as a hero.

I like Ultimate Spider-man because he was learning. he made mistakes...things 616 spidey rarely did at his age.but in ultimate spiderman while gaining more experiance... in the end he was always still a kid. he's gained more experience such as when he caught Silver sable and her crew when they tried kidnapping him. but in the end his real age showed. he tried using her cell to call the cops. while his spidey sense went off he hesitated. and she looked at him amazed. but he hit the button anyways and knocked himself out.

Now that the difference between the two is gone. both are single and live with aunt may. Its hard to pick up amazing spiderman when the quality of ultimate is usually better.

 

[farmernudie]

In Ultimate, he is still learning, like you said Styleshift...Pete is growing up naturally in an unforced way.

In Amazing, you've got a regressed Pete who is going thru the same things like he's a young guy just outta school again or something. I don't care to see Pete going thru the smae problems again, like he learned nothing from his life so far, as it was magically swept away and now he is like this bum, stuck in a loop of the past who never grew up and never experienced anything before.

 

[carnageehw]

I hate the Ultimate Universe and everything within...

Why?


(you can keep it brief if ya want, I'm sure you have a laundry list of reasons )

 

[Blader5489]

Ultimate Spider-man's quality is much higher than Amazing Spidey. it shows what can happen when not TOTALLY forced in a certain direction.

That's probably because Ultimate Spider-Man is the more expendable book.

 

[Styleshift]

I'll tell you one thing...I'm tired of looking at amazing spider-man on the internet and going "who's still buying this crap?"

First we get sins past crap, than we get the other crap. and finally a nice serving of one more day of crap. and just when we think there done? brand new day of crap.

They wrote a check they couldn't cash. now we're going to have another set of spidey stories that will simply be ignored by marvel. I hate it when stories have lingering plots.
as far as they went with the other a better explanation of why he's the same even before "the queen arc" would have been nice. especially since pete's whole anatomy is the same as before. and he probably never died.

 

[Blader5489]

They wrote a check they couldn't cash.

They seem to be cashing in pretty well.

 

[carnageehw]

That's probably because Ultimate Spider-Man is the more expendable book.

You just say a lot of random junk.....

 

[Blader5489]

You just say a lot of random junk.....

What? Anything can happen in USM; it doesn't really matter because it's not the flagship Spider-Man. In ASM, you can't have just anything happen because Marvel needs to be able to maintain that franchise for the foreseeable future, hence the need for creative directions dictating what can and can't be done. Comparatively, USM is expendable.

Don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

 

[moraldeficiency]

What? Anything can happen in USM; it doesn't really matter because it's not the flagship Spider-Man. In ASM, you can't have just anything happen because Marvel needs to be able to maintain that franchise for the foreseeable future, hence the need for creative directions dictating what can and can't be done. Comparatively, USM is expendable.

Don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

So you feel the same way about the ultimates?

 

[Norman Osborn]

So you feel the same way about the ultimates?

Has number 4 and 5 ever been freaking released?....I think I got #3 in January

 

[Blader5489]

So you feel the same way about the ultimates?

I think Loeb has proven that the Ultimate line is expendable.

 

[Styleshift]

They seem to be cashing in pretty well.

LOL your right...money is a bad way to put it. haha

 

[Styleshift]

I think Loeb has proven that the Ultimate line is expendable.

what did Loeb do in the ultimate line?

 

[USMC]

Thanks...

Them thar's the nicest things you've said to me in a while... I really appreciate that.

Well, as I said a month or so ago, I realize that complaining for the sake of complaining is pointless, and that I would take each issue as they come and see how they are.

I still firmly stand against OMD and BND. I will not purchase another Spider-Man comic until Marvel sees fit to either retcon what they've done, or give SOLID explanations for this new reality of Peter's. And until such time as Peter Parker/Spider-Man becomes the flagship of Marvel again, and not its whipping boy.

Even I can admit that these last few months have been written pretty well. But not well enough that it couldn't have been done with MJ as his wife.

The ends will never justify the means, IMO.

All my opinion, of course.

 

[Arach Knight]

I think BND was more about getting Spidey back to the status quo that he is shown in, in ot her formats (movies, games, cartoons). He was alwasy single, working at the Daily Bugle and struggling. Getting rid of Mary Jane was just part of re-establishing that status. It just so happened that it worked out well for Marvel's hard on to hate that characters interaction with Peter Parker.

 

[Styleshift]

I think BND was more about getting Spidey back to the status quo that he is shown in, in ot her formats (movies, games, cartoons). He was alwasy single, working at the Daily Bugle and struggling. Getting rid of Mary Jane was just part of re-establishing that status. It just so happened that it worked out well for Marvel's hard on to hate that characters interaction with Peter Parker.

In most of the above suggested media that you mentioned. peter parker is at the start of his career as spidey. you can't really have a married 16 year old can you?

In the movies Mj was "the girl next door" and the only real love interest Peter had or was interested in.

Firestar off of amazing friends design was based off of MJ.


In Spider-man: TAS He was eventually married off to maryjane even if somewhat retconned.

Spider-man unlimited. its unclear what there relationship was. but him and Mj were together.

In the majority of spidey video games. when they mention his relationship status. he's always been married to mj with the exception of ultimate spider-man.

In the end she's always the go back to girl. and that really gets old. like smallville.

The media is not really a good defense. (i just thought this was cool...lol)

 

[carnageehw]

Don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

It didn't really relate to what was being said. That quality comes from not being held back creativley.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Just some Random banter and theories about these touchy subjects....

Ben Reily staying Spider-man would have DEFINITELY been better than this load of crap called OMD it never would have made a single story "not count". it all still happened. it just wasn't the real peter is better than "it's magic we don't have to explain it".

. 1. We would have had a married peter.

2. it adds another complex side of grief to the life of peter parker. look at what i could have....a family.... but i cant break my promise to uncle ben.

3. Aunt May would have stayed dead (she was written out PERFECTLY, just another good story to the long list that no longer counts .)
and Ben would have still been single like "the writers" wanted.

4. The clone saga would be resolved instead of given a tacked on ending and forgotten soon after.

Sure...its no longer peter anymore in the suit.... but I could argue the same thing about post civil war spidey.

I guess really Joey Q. forced those stories to give us a decision. stray him as far from his origin as possible so that erasing it all (plus the marriage) would be a good idea....I remember the days when Joey Q. would tell a good story...(like that one batman story he did) but now he butchers his characters for money....and it is so poorly obvious....

all the events spideys been through...
especially giving him organic webs after the movie was released. having him don the black suit during sm3 for NO really good reason and written HIGHLY out of continuity.

I agree on the points mainly because I am a fan of the clone saga and wished that Marvel would have stuck to their guns on that one.

But either way if Ben Reilly would have stayed in the picture and Peter and MJ lived happily ever after there would still be something wrong and things would need rehashed again.

You've got a character that has been around for almost five decades in television, movies, and thousands of comic books. If you want to keep things fresh, interesting, and new you have to have some kind of evolution and movement. And the way that leadership changes at comic book companies it is difficult to keep a character on a set track of evolution because someone comes in and always wants to try something different.

The only thing I don't agree with you on is the ending and how everyone would have just moved on with it. Heh. There would have been no moving on fans would have still tried to burn Marvel to the ground for that decision. Many fans felt betrayed, as they do now, because the "Spider-Man" they were reading was not the "true" Spider-Man all those years.

There are interesting parallels between the Clone Saga and One More Day. They were both very contreversial storylines that really sent continuity into a tail spin. Anytime you do that your long time dedicated fans are going to be outraged. The only difference between the two is that this time Marvel really seems to be sticking to their guns and going with their plan of Brand New Day, which in my opinion has been absolutely fantastic since the first issue with Dan Slott and Steve McNiven.

 

[Styleshift]

I agree on the points mainly because I am a fan of the clone saga and wished that Marvel would have stuck to their guns on that one.

But either way if Ben Reilly would have stayed in the picture and Peter and MJ lived happily ever after there would still be something wrong and things would need rehashed again.

You've got a character that has been around for almost five decades in television, movies, and thousands of comic books. If you want to keep things fresh, interesting, and new you have to have some kind of evolution and movement. And the way that leadership changes at comic book companies it is difficult to keep a character on a set track of evolution because someone comes in and always wants to try something different.

The only thing I don't agree with you on is the ending and how everyone would have just moved on with it. Heh. There would have been no moving on fans would have still tried to burn Marvel to the ground for that decision. Many fans felt betrayed, as they do now, because the "Spider-Man" they were reading was not the "true" Spider-Man all those years.

There are interesting parallels between the Clone Saga and One More Day. They were both very contreversial storylines that really sent continuity into a tail spin. Anytime you do that your long time dedicated fans are going to be outraged. The only difference between the two is that this time Marvel really seems to be sticking to their guns and going with their plan of Brand New Day, which in my opinion has been absolutely fantastic since the first issue with Dan Slott and Steve McNiven.

Keeping Ben Reily alive would have solved there problem. they wouldn't have had the excuse about a single spidey. I love how they bounced off each other. It was really nice seeing Peter FINALLY being able to totally relate to someone. If people really think a single spidey is more interesting...they could go to Ben's book. if The orginal Married Spidey is what they like....than fans won't run from that book.

I'm not so much of a fan of the marriage that I can't accept a single spidey.
If you've been through sins past and the other and stayed on the book. you can deal with this.
It's just that lazy writing. and raising a dollar on the price of the book to insult are fandom and intelligence is really frustrating. the marriage was an excuse to regress back to a simple story telling formula. instead of exploring mj and her estranged family. they gave peter and mj no real life. they want a poor barely getting by peter. and thats not relatable at all....with the prices that these books are these days...im pretty sure none of us reading are poor and barely making it. lol. sure we may not be married to a supermodel. but we all have at least one person in our life that really cares about us.

 

[Styleshift]

I agree on the points mainly because I am a fan of the clone saga and wished that Marvel would have stuck to their guns on that one.

But either way if Ben Reilly would have stayed in the picture and Peter and MJ lived happily ever after there would still be something wrong and things would need rehashed again.

You've got a character that has been around for almost five decades in television, movies, and thousands of comic books. If you want to keep things fresh, interesting, and new you have to have some kind of evolution and movement. And the way that leadership changes at comic book companies it is difficult to keep a character on a set track of evolution because someone comes in and always wants to try something different.

The only thing I don't agree with you on is the ending and how everyone would have just moved on with it. Heh. There would have been no moving on fans would have still tried to burn Marvel to the ground for that decision. Many fans felt betrayed, as they do now, because the "Spider-Man" they were reading was not the "true" Spider-Man all those years.

There are interesting parallels between the Clone Saga and One More Day. They were both very contreversial storylines that really sent continuity into a tail spin. Anytime you do that your long time dedicated fans are going to be outraged. The only difference between the two is that this time Marvel really seems to be sticking to their guns and going with their plan of Brand New Day, which in my opinion has been absolutely fantastic since the first issue with Dan Slott and Steve McNiven.

Keeping Ben Reily alive would have solved there problem. they wouldn't have had the excuse about a single spidey. I love how they bounced off each other. It was really nice seeing Peter FINALLY being able to totally relate to someone. If people really think a single spidey is more interesting...they could go to Ben's book. if The orginal Married Spidey is what they like....than fans won't run from that book.

I'm not so much of a fan of the marriage that I can't accept a single spidey.
If you've been through sins past and the other and stayed on the book. you can deal with this.
It's just that lazy writing. and raising a dollar on the price of the book to insult are fandom and intelligence is really frustrating. the marriage was an excuse to regress back to a simple story telling formula. instead of exploring mj and her estranged family. they gave peter and mj no real life. they want a poor barely getting by peter. and thats not relatable at all....with the prices that these books are these days...im pretty sure none of us reading are poor and barely making it. lol. sure we may not be married to a supermodel. but we all have at least one person in our life that really cares about us even when the world is against us. even if that person is mom.

and now aunt may doesn't even know. so no one can support him.
the past years have been shock value because of lazy writing. and im tired of it.

 

[ragingdemon155]

What? Anything can happen in USM; it doesn't really matter because it's not the flagship Spider-Man. In ASM, you can't have just anything happen because Marvel needs to be able to maintain that franchise for the foreseeable future, hence the need for creative directions dictating what can and can't be done. Comparatively, USM is expendable.

Don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

I understand what your saying. USM (While its my favorite title out) is expendable and ASM isn't. However, after OMD and everything that's going on right now....Can you honestly say "In ASM, you can't have just anything happened" with a straight face?

That's pretty much the rule that Marvel is applying to the title. Ignore logic and just go along with it.

 

[farmernudie]

^ Exactly. Pretty much anything can happen in ASM as much as it can USM, now that you can plan for years worth of stories going anywhere fully knowing you'll wipe it away with a cheesy story (if you can even call it a story) and throw logic and continuity everything you were just doing (and we were spending money on) out the window in a preplanned continuity/mindwipe by the devil once we reached point B of the overall plan/agenda.

 

[Blader5489]

I understand what your saying. USM (While its my favorite title out) is expendable and ASM isn't. However, after OMD and everything that's going on right now....Can you honestly say "In ASM, you can't have just anything happened" with a straight face?

That's pretty much the rule that Marvel is applying to the title. Ignore logic and just go along with it.

OMD isn't evolving the book though. When I say "anything can happen" in USM, I'm not referring to plot devices, I'm referring to how far the book can stray from its roots. ASM has to be more limited in that respect because, unlike USM, ASM is the flagship book and has to remain as marketable as possible.

 

[farmernudie]

Blader: OMD isn't evolving the book though. When I say "anything can happen" in USM, I'm not referring to plot devices, I'm referring to how far the book can stray from its roots. ASM has to be more limited in that respect because, unlike USM, ASM is the flagship book and has to remain as marketable as possible.

Well, then, in these poor economic times, with prices raising with gas and everything it seems....it is a poor decision to make a flagship book so controversial. Why go against popular demand and polls? Why tick off so many long time custumers?

JQ could have struck gold by keeping the marriage intact, having no devil dealing (Which was SO out of character) and kept the integrity of the marriage AND continuity and still had Slott and crew write a non-agenda-box-covered-progression-allowed-not-PeterPan Spidey and the customers (fans) would have been united. Instead, there is devision everywhere. Comic shop owners have testified to this, as have polls, letter pages, WHacker, sales dropping regardless, all message boards, etc.

It didn't HAVE to be this way. (so devisive.) Go with what works, especially in troubled times...what is marketable like you said, NOT with some like NEW COKE. If Marvel really feels the need to experiment, which is what they are doing here, then launch a new Ultimate-Ultimate series or something. Instead, they've tampered with a heavy hand.