On Reading Reviews: A Different Vision for Us?

[Ursavior01]

Agh, this is the spoiler section! lol.

yeah I know, but you know what I mean :P

 

[Downhere]

Well I agree with most of the things that TOB has pointed out. I feel that both Cyclop's and Rogue's arc haven't really been resolved...especially Cyclop.
He promised the Professor that he'll look over the school and I feel that it's love between Cyke and Jean that can only stop the Phoenix...not Wolverine.

Rogue on the other hand...I can the fact taht she wants to get the cure, but PWR says they never showed Rogue taking the cure. The writers said Rogue was going to kick some ass in this movie...which we havent' seen from the reviews.

I know the cure is a big issue, but having a girl who was weak at the beginning of her arc and becoming a stronger person at the end of X2. She shows confident enough to actually go train in the DR. Why make her go train if she ends up taking the cure. It's just a waste of her character.

That's what I think.

I agree on every account...especially about Cyke!

 

[Ursavior01]

I agree on every account...especially about Cyke!

Coolio. You got anything to add to my thoughts?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Well I agree with most of the things that TOB has pointed out. I feel that both Cyclop's and Rogue's arc haven't really been resolved...especially Cyclop.
He promised the Professor that he'll look over the school and I feel that it's love between Cyke and Jean that can only stop the Phoenix...not Wolverine.

Rogue on the other hand...I can the fact taht she wants to get the cure, but PWR says they never showed Rogue taking the cure. The writers said Rogue was going to kick some ass in this movie...which we havent' seen from the reviews.

I know the cure is a big issue, but having a girl who was weak at the beginning of her arc and becoming a stronger person at the end of X2. She shows confident enough to actually go train in the DR. Why make her go train if she ends up taking the cure. It's just a waste of her character.

That's what I think.

See, I agree that good storytelling would dictate this...

But who says that we have good storytellers on this project?

*Spoiler alert, proceed with caution*

I was thinking about it at work tonight, and something that TOB said earlier was right. For good storytelling, it doesn't make sense for Jean to be killed by Wolverine, and the only logical explanation would be to bring Jean back from her darkness. She survived the rushing flood waters from Alkali Lake, and being stuck at the bottom of the lake, only for some adamantium claws to kill her? Doesn't make sense. And for her to rise from her death once, killing her off wouldn't make sense. Her death would be meaningless, as it would be thought that "oh, she'll just rise again"

So for good storytelling, Jean's death in this movie doesn't make sense. She would have to be brought back.

And good storytelling would show that only Scott could do that. Despite what fanboys ***** about, it was clear that Jean's love was for Cyclops, not Wolverine. She rejected him all through 2 movies, and at the end of X2, Wolverine made it clear to Cyclops that she chose Scott, not Logan. So, for all of a sudden, Logan and Jean's connection to be strong enough to bring her back from whatever ailes her, doesn't make sense in good storytelling.

The end of X2 foreshadowed a heavy involvement from Cyclops. Good storytelling would incorporate that, not killing him off early, only to be non-existant in the Phoenix Saga which he should be the savior, only to make Wolverine the savior when it doesn't make any sense within the context of the story that's been laid out for us through 2 movies.

But again, what is good storytelling, and what we're getting, aren't neccesarily one in the same.

In the minds of these storytellers, killing off Cyclops could be completing his arc, because seeing as how he's nothing more than a fart in the wind now, there's nothing left for him to do. No more character evolution.

And the resolution of the Cyclops / Wolverine / Jean Grey love triangle is to have Wolverine save the day and get the girl. Something that was NOT implied to happen at the end of X2 when this whole storyline was laid out.

I'm sorry, I love your ideas, and I want nothing more than for you to be right (that as well as a Cerebro doors introduction to the movie), but unfortunatley what should have happened doesn't fit in with the evidence that we've been given. The evidence is, Cyclops dies, and doesn't come back, while Wolverine becomes Jean Grey's savior. This is from every single review that we have gotten thus far. I just don't believe that Fox is holding some secret version of the film for the May 26th date in which Cyclops lives, takes part in the final battle, leading his team against the Brotherhood, and save Jean Grey from the corruption that has come over her.

I will agree, Cyclops death contradicts with certain things we know:

-James Marsden has talked about wearing the suit in the film, and in the context of that quote and article, I highly doubt he was talking about the promo shoots

-There is that Cameron Bright picture that shows Cyclops, in uniform and visor, in what appears to be the set of the Alcatraz labs... I don't believe that is a soldier looking up and the "visor" is his chin strap

^ But despite that evidence, there will probably be some kind of explanation for why those are there and Cyclops isn't in the film. James probably was talking about promotional shoots, or "images" that Jean has of Scott, and perhaps that is a guard looking up, and the "visor" is his chinstrap, or possibly that set isn't the Alcatraz lab, but rather the set of Jean's images of Scott.

Trust me, I want you to be right. I want there to be something misleading about these reviews. I want Cyclops to not die at Alkali Lake. I want him to be the one who saves Jean, not Wolverine. nd for the longest time, I was a supporter of that happening. Even with the AICN script review, I never truly believed that Scott died. I believed they intended to when they thought his shooting schedule would be less, but I thought that surely they'd change it after he got more time, and after the fan backlash. Surely they wouldn't be that stupid as to keep him dead. But unfortunatley, it appears I gave Kinberg and Penn too much credit. And what we're getting is a totally bastardized version of the Phoenix Saga, an out of character Wolverine, and a non-existant Cyclops.

This saddens me to no end.

 

[Ursavior01]

See, I agree that good storytelling would dictate this...

But who says that we have good storytellers on this project?

*Spoiler alert, proceed with caution*

I was thinking about it at work tonight, and something that TOB said earlier was right. For good storytelling, it doesn't make sense for Jean to be killed by Wolverine, and the only logical explanation would be to bring Jean back from her darkness. She survived the rushing flood waters from Alkali Lake, and being stuck at the bottom of the lake, only for some adamantium claws to kill her? Doesn't make sense. And for her to rise from her death once, killing her off wouldn't make sense. Her death would be meaningless, as it would be thought that "oh, she'll just rise again"

So for good storytelling, Jean's death in this movie doesn't make sense. She would have to be brought back.

And good storytelling would show that only Scott could do that. Despite what fanboys ***** about, it was clear that Jean's love was for Cyclops, not Wolverine. She rejected him all through 2 movies, and at the end of X2, Wolverine made it clear to Cyclops that she chose Scott, not Logan. So, for all of a sudden, Logan and Jean's connection to be strong enough to bring her back from whatever ailes her, doesn't make sense in good storytelling.

The end of X2 foreshadowed a heavy involvement from Cyclops. Good storytelling would incorporate that, not killing him off early, only to be non-existant in the Phoenix Saga which he should be the savior, only to make Wolverine the savior when it doesn't make any sense within the context of the story that's been laid out for us through 2 movies.

But again, what is good storytelling, and what we're getting, aren't neccesarily one in the same.

In the minds of these storytellers, killing off Cyclops could be completing his arc, because seeing as how he's nothing more than a fart in the wind now, there's nothing left for him to do. No more character evolution.

And the resolution of the Cyclops / Wolverine / Jean Grey love triangle is to have Wolverine save the day and get the girl. Something that was NOT implied to happen at the end of X2 when this whole storyline was laid out.

I'm sorry, I love your ideas, and I want nothing more than for you to be right (that as well as a Cerebro doors introduction to the movie), but unfortunatley what should have happened doesn't fit in with the evidence that we've been given. The evidence is, Cyclops dies, and doesn't come back, while Wolverine becomes Jean Grey's savior. This is from every single review that we have gotten thus far. I just don't believe that Fox is holding some secret version of the film for the May 26th date in which Cyclops lives, takes part in the final battle, leading his team against the Brotherhood, and save Jean Grey from the corruption that has come over her.

I will agree, Cyclops death contradicts with certain things we know:

-James Marsden has talked about wearing the suit in the film, and in the context of that quote and article, I highly doubt he was talking about the promo shoots

-There is that Cameron Bright picture that shows Cyclops, in uniform and visor, in what appears to be the set of the Alcatraz labs... I don't believe that is a soldier looking up and the "visor" is his chin strap

^ But despite that evidence, there will probably be some kind of explanation for why those are there and Cyclops isn't in the film. James probably was talking about promotional shoots, or "images" that Jean has of Scott, and perhaps that is a guard looking up, and the "visor" is his chinstrap, or possibly that set isn't the Alcatraz lab, but rather the set of Jean's images of Scott.

Trust me, I want you to be right. I want there to be something misleading about these reviews. I want Cyclops to not die at Alkali Lake. I want him to be the one who saves Jean, not Wolverine. nd for the longest time, I was a supporter of that happening. Even with the AICN script review, I never truly believed that Scott died. I believed they intended to when they thought his shooting schedule would be less, but I thought that surely they'd change it after he got more time, and after the fan backlash. Surely they wouldn't be that stupid as to keep him dead. But unfortunatley, it appears I gave Kinberg and Penn too much credit. And what we're getting is a totally bastardized version of the Phoenix Saga, an out of character Wolverine, and a non-existant Cyclops.

This saddens me to no end.

Why would they update his visor if he won't be wearing in the movie. You knwo what I mean.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Why would they update his visor if he won't be wearing in the movie. You knwo what I mean.

You're right.

There are many questions that I've asked, that I've presented, as evidence to Cyclops surviving. And Cyclops dying does contradict a lot of what we've seen.

BUT

If Cyclops survived, why would every review we've gotten so far have him killed off?

Reviews are of the actual movie... updated visors, the actor wearing the uniform, and pics of him on set in said uniform, are not the actual movie, and could have logical explanations to them, like Jean having memories of Scott or something.

And again, you don't know how much it pains me to say that. I wanna be wrong about this. I fought the optimistic fight for Cyclops surviving for so long, right on the frontlines alongside WorthyStevens. And I wanna come back from the movie not having had that fight be in vain.

But at some point, the actual finished product (which is what's being reviewed here, and has every review stating Cyclops dies) has to take precedence over circumstancial evidence.

 

[Ursavior01]

You're right.

There are many questions that I've asked, that I've presented, as evidence to Cyclops surviving.

BUT

If Cyclops survived, why would every review we've gotten so far have him killed off?

I think Fox is holding that for the final release. I think there's going to be an alternate ending. That's going to surprise everyone.
There was a surprise ending in x2 and there will be one for this one too.
Fox is letting all the press screening know that this is how the movie is going to end not, but wait until the alternate version comes out.
They want us to catch it off guard. Fox knows that true fans will really want to find out the fate of their beloved character. Cyclop dying and not appearing at the end giving the fan little hope of seeing him on May 26th, but then we're going to be surprise when we see him in the final battle. That's how it's going to be. Think about it. Fox is bringing our expectation down by saying that cyke bites the dust.

Just like X2. People assumed that Jean goes blind.

 

[Ursavior01]

Another point is that Fox watches what we talk about and they know we will already know what happens and so they want us to be surprised.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I think Fox is holding that for the final release. I think there's going to be an alternate ending. That's going to surprise everyone.
There was a surprise ending in x2 and there will be one for this one too.
Fox is letting all the press screening know that this is how the movie is going to end not, but wait until the alternate version comes out.
They want us to catch it off guard. Fox knows that true fans will really want to find out the fate of their beloved character. Cyclop dying and not appearing at the end giving the fan little hope of seeing him on May 26th, but then we're going to be surprise when we see him in the final battle. That's how it's going to be. Think about it. Fox is bringing our expectation down by saying that cyke bites the dust.

Just like X2. People assumed that Jean goes blind.

But the question is;

Did Jean actually go blind in these advance "press" screenings for X2? Because as far as I know... Jean was never filmed to have gone blind, was she?

I hope you're right. And I like your optimism. It's been you, and a very small handful of others who are still remaining optimistic. And it's helped me greatly. Both novels had Cyclops dead, so did like, the 1st 2 reviews, and I was very sad. Look at my responses to Kinberg and Penn in their respective forums on the xverse. And if you've seen my posts on here lately, my view towards them has gone very negative.

But the optimism from you and the few others, has at least given me a brighter look on this film again. For about 2 days, my feelings towards this movie became completely negative, despite all of the optimism I've had for the past year and a half. I've always been in support of this film, feeling that it could very well be the best one yet. The reviews of Cyclops dying put a severe damper on that, but the still faithful outlook from some of you has helped me to become optimistic again. And I thank you for that.

And I truly hope that you are right. If Cyclops survives (and we get our Cerebro door entrance), I've no doubt that this will be the best film of the franchise, runtime be damned. If Cyclops dies (and there's no Cerebro door entrance) this film could still very well be a great film, but it will be hard to call it the best of the series, when it's the most bastardized.

 

[Ursavior01]

But the question is;

Did Jean actually go blind in these advance "press" screenings for X2? Because as far as I know... Jean was never filmed to have gone blind, was she?

I hope you're right. And I like your optimism. It's been you, and a very small handful of others who are still remaining optimistic. And it's helped me greatly. Both novels had Cyclops dead, so did like, the 1st 2 reviews, and I was very sad. Look at my responses to Kinberg and Penn in their respective forums on the xverse. And if you've seen my posts on here lately, my view towards them has gone very negative.

But the optimism from you and the few others, has at least given me a brighter look on this film again. For about 2 days, my feelings towards this movie became completely negative, despite all of the optimism I've had for the past year and a half. I've always been in support of this film, feeling that it could very well be the best one yet. The reviews of Cyclops dying put a severe damper on that, but the still faithful outlook from some of you has helped me to become optimistic again. And I thank you for that.

And I truly hope that you are right. If Cyclops survives (and we get our Cerebro door entrance), I've no doubt that this will be the best film of the franchise, runtime be damned. If Cyclops dies (and there's no Cerebro door entrance) this film could still very well be a great film, but it will be hard to call it the best of the series, when it's the most bastardized.

When was the press screening for X2? How close was it to the release date?
By the way, you're welcome about us being optimistic. Some people on here said that they were expecting to see Jean go blind, but ended up being surprised that she is reborned as the Phoenix.

 

[BMM]

No, Jean was never publicly confirmed to go blind as the official movie ending until after its release (I don't think), and it wasn't shown in a press screening--it was an idea partially shot by the directors that never made it into the movie (thank God). Although portions of it made it into the movie, I believe, during cut-away shots and such. I think Singer mentions it on the X2 extras. I didn't even think there was a press screening of X2, at least that's what I thought someone on here said . . . but I would take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Ursavior01]

No, Jean was never confirmed publicly to go blind as an official movie ending until after its release, and it wasn't shown in a press screening--it was an idea partially shot by the directors that never made it into the movie (thank God). I didn't even think there was a press screening of X2, at least that's what I thought someone on here said . . . but I would take that with a grain of salt.

Well I believe the novel said she went blind and that's what people thought going into the movie. Of course there were pressing screening of X2. No way will you not have a pressing of a blockbuster movie.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

When was the press screening for X2? How close was it to the release date?
By the way, you're welcome about us being optimistic. Some people on here said that they were expecting to see Jean go blind, but ended up being surprised that she is reborned as the Phoenix.

I don't know, because I wasn't around here for X2.

An alternate version that includes Cyclops survival, and appearance in the final battle would definatley make a lot of sense with some of the evidence we've seen (evidence that people like VileOne and Kurosawa would be quick to dismiss)...

But I just don't see Fox releasing one version for the press, and another for the theatrical release. To me, it just doesn't make sense that they'd press screen something that wasn't the real product... and as far as I know, there isn't a precedence for it.

 

[BMM]

Well I believe the novel said she went blind and that's what people thought going into the movie. Of course there were pressing screening of X2. No way will you not have a pressing of a blockbuster movie.

That could be, but it wasn't in the movie. I swear on these boards someone said that there wasn't one either for X-Men or X2, because the effects or something weren't finished . . . they could have been wrong. I don't know . . . just making an observation.

 

[Ursavior01]

That could be, but it wasn't in the movie. I swear on these boards someone said that there wasn't one either for X-Men or X2, because the effects or something weren't finished . . . they could have been wrong. I don't know . . . just making an observation.

I remember reading the review for X2 on AICN before it came out so there has to be one.

 

[BMM]

I don't know, because I wasn't around here for X2.

An alternate version that includes Cyclops survival, and appearance in the final battle would definatley make a lot of sense with some of the evidence we've seen (evidence that people like VileOne and Kurosawa would be quick to dismiss)...

But I just don't see Fox releasing one version for the press, and another for the theatrical release. To me, it just doesn't make sense that they'd press screen something that wasn't the real product... and as far as I know, there isn't a precedence for it.

I don't either. It results in inaccurate reviews, and completely negates the purpose of the press screening. They might as well show an entirely different movie altogether if they change the ending, as that can change the whole tone and everything of the movie. Besides, unless X3 pulled incredibly ahead of schedule, they were most likely too crunched for time to shoot, edit, add special effects, etc. to an alt. ending. Also, it's a loss of a lot of money just for one press-screening.

 

[Ursavior01]

I don't know, because I wasn't around here for X2.

An alternate version that includes Cyclops survival, and appearance in the final battle would definatley make a lot of sense with some of the evidence we've seen (evidence that people like VileOne and Kurosawa would be quick to dismiss)...

But I just don't see Fox releasing one version for the press, and another for the theatrical release. To me, it just doesn't make sense that they'd press screen something that wasn't the real product... and as far as I know, there isn't a precedence for it.

Anything is possible because Downhere said the moderator on XMF went to the Mexico Premiere and she clocked the showing at 1 hour and 50 minutes without credit.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Anything is possible because Downhere said the moderator on XMF went to the Mexico Premiere and she clocked the showing at 1 hour and 50 minutes without credit.

A review that still had Cyclops dead, right?

 

[Ursavior01]

Also the screening weren't completely done with effects so it's possible.

 

[BMM]

I remember reading the review for X2 on AICN before it came out so there has to be one.

You're probably right . . . it was probably just someone making a bunch of crap up--who knows?

 

[Ursavior01]

A review that still had Cyclops dead, right?

Yes he's still dead, but my theory is that Fox is saving him for theatrical release.

TOB theory about how the Phoenix doesn't die from Wolverine's claws, but when Scott appears afterward. That also could happen. Who knows what Ratner will decide on.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Also the screening weren't completely done with effects so it's possible.

That's just effects though.

Effects don't change the outcome of the movie.

However, a character's fate, and whether or not he appears in the final confrontation, and whether or not he's the savior for a corrupted character or not, does change the outcome of the movie.

 

[Spidey 2007]

No, Jean was never publicly confirmed to go blind as the official movie ending until after its release (I don't think), and it wasn't shown in a press screening--it was an idea partially shot by the directors that never made it into the movie (thank God). Although portions of it made it into the movie, I believe, during cut-away shots and such. I think Singer mentions it on the X2 extras. I didn't even think there was a press screening of X2, at least that's what I thought someone on here said . . . but I would take that with a grain of salt.

yea, it was written in the X2 novel, im not sure if it was written for the sole purpose of throwing EVERYBODY off, or if it was actually going to be shot.... but im pretty sure Singer said himself they dileberatly did throw people offf... and went along with the X2 Jean in whitehouse picture...

i mean... at this point, you CANT say this is impossible for this movie to change drastically... nothing is impossible... its highly unlikely, but its feasable.

if we are presented the cerebro door, ect. when i see it.....dude, i dont know what ill do, because ill realize we have something special on our hands, even if cyclops dies. Its hard to get over cyclops, but you have to realize if he does indeed stay "dead" this is just an adaptation of the comics. the movies are their own universe. the x-films arnt over yet. we will see cyclops on film triummphantly, wether we be 35 years old or 65 years old.... (unless the world ends in 2012 like its suppose to )

intresting, intresting, hang in there Nell, trust me i felt the SAME EXACT way you did, when the first reviews rolled in, the novel, ugh pissed me off to no end, i lost sleep, and did a few things im not particularly proud of.... but hang in there, this thread right here is like.... rehab. i let go of the sting that was holding my hopes together for this movie a week or so ago, but since then ive gotten a hold of it again, and i can safely say that ...I can pull myself to saftey come May 26th... and you can to Nell... you just have to hang on This is FOX's baby.... not F4 believe it or not....& Not elektra, not even the holy daredevil..... This is The X-men... and if im wrong about all this, ill seriously let you hack my computer, or give me a virus at least....

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Yes he's still dead, but my theory is that Fox is saving him for theatrical release.

TOB theory about how the Phoenix doesn't die from Wolverine's claws, but when Scott appears afterward. That also could happen. Who knows what Ratner will decide on.

Yea, it could, I talked about that in one of my longer posts up above...

About how it'd make sense for good storytelling... but that doesn't mean we have good storytellers on our hands.

It would be nice, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Ursavior01]

That's just effects though.

Effects don't change the outcome of the movie.

However, a character's fate, and whether or not he appears in the final confrontation, and whether or not he's the savior for a corrupted character or not, does change the outcome of the movie.

I get what you're saying, but like what we have brought up earlier...There have been movies that had alternate endings before. There were also movies that had different versions during the press screening and the final film. Anything is possible. Just keep an open mind about it.