one thing i never understood about the MU

[November Rain]

(smile)
I'm kinda surprised some mutant hasn't stepped up and said they got their powers during a smoothie-blender accident,.... that they were "human" before.

Just to be accepted by the marvel public you understand,....

This was touched in the ultimates line Where the nature of the wasp's abilities come into question.

I also don't think she stands up for pietro and wanda much when they get bashed for being mutants and joining the team.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I think a few people probably mentioned this by now, but because the humans are afraid of being replaced and being inferior. Hero's who get their powers by accident are different, only because once, they were normal humans.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He was a dude with a secret id. How is that presenting himself openly?

Because he's a superhero who only uses his powers when he puts on a colorful costume and helps people. There's very little chance that Iron Man's gonna be some guy on the bus who turns his head and incinerates you with his eyes.

People fear the unknown. Iron Man's one known superhero, not a race of people with unknown agendas.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

"I'm not paying for the bus, b***h."

"It's a dollar."

"Well, how about some REPULSOR RAYS!!"

 

[RockSP]

Because he's a superhero who only uses his powers when he puts on a colorful costume and helps people.

How do they (average marvel u joe) know that?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They don't. They assume that. It's only about as illogical as assuming that all mutants are summarily out to get them. The fear of mutants stems from the mutant race, not mutant superheroes. The public generally seems to like superheroes in the Marvel universe (before Stamford), unless they break their car or apartment in one of their fights or something. At their core, superheroes are people using their gifts to help others, which people like. People only fear the X-Men because they know they're mutants, which overrides their default impulse to like them.

Think of it this way: Suppose you had a political candidate who was universally loved, but then it comes out that he's a mulatto. He looks white and his politics are agreeable to everyone, but suddenly a (sadly) large part of his voters are totally, 100% against him, no matter what he does, because of already-ingrained prejudices against black people as a whole. It's the same thing for mutants--people generally like superheroes, but if they find out a hero is a mutant, a lot of them instantly turn against him or her because they have existing prejudices against mutants as a whole race.

 

[November Rain]

has the public perception of franklin been addressed considering that he is a mutant while his parents are not

or is he alright because he roles with cosmic rayed parents?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

People may not even know he's a mutant. He hasn't really made his powers known, as far as I recall.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

They might assume it's okay, since his parents are metahumans.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah. He might be one of those people for whom the public shrugs and goes, "Eh, he's all right for one of them." If they know, of course, which I'm not sure about.

 

[November Rain]

but metahumans pretty much breed mutants...

they are somewhat directly responsible for large jumps in the evolutionary process like mutants are...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

According to what? There's not much correlation between metahuman parents and mutant children. The vast majority of mutants are born to human parents, and even two mutant parents have given birth to a normal human child before. The FF even have a normal daughter (so far) alongside their mutant son.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

According to what? There's not much correlation between metahuman parents and mutant children. The vast majority of mutants are born to human parents, and even two mutant parents have given birth to a normal human child before. The FF even have a normal daughter (so far) alongside their mutant son.

Mystique and Sabertooth had a non mutant son.

 

[PhotoJones]

He was a great character, too. Lobdell did some awesome things with him.

 

[BrianWilly]

And that's what I mean by comic book logic. "Oh, he got his powers from an exploding toilet. That's okay, then. Long as he wasn't born with them I'll let him save my daughter from that fire."

It doesn't really make sense. But Marvel wants the mutants to be outsiders so they are.

If the person saving that daughter from the fire was named "Awesomo Lad" and dressed in bright neon blue fatigues with a cape and smile and dapper attitude and has been appearing on the news fighting Doombots next to Mr. Fantastic, you better bet that the average customer isn't going to ask too many questions.

But then take that exact same person -- everything I just described about him -- and add the fact that he's openly associated with the growing number of a genetic master race who has been confirmed as terrorists, and even the most open-minded individual is going to have some mistrust issues.

Beyond that, it's just what Corp said about preexisting attitudes that may not make sense. Of course a homophobe wouldn't let a lesbian babysit his children, even if she has the same creds as a straight nanny. Of course an anti-semitic wouldn't hire a Jewish employee. Even if they have the exact same credentials and the exact same capabilities -- here you'll note I'm making a none-too-subtle allusion to the X-Men against any other team of heroes -- it makes no difference at all to the masses because of one single word: mutant.

Case in point: when the original X-Men rebanded as "X-Factor," they disguised themselves as completely human superheroes. The public saw superheroes without the stigma of being mutants and, of course, they met none of the opposition that they would have had they been an openly mutant team.

Sure, it "doesn't make sense" in the way that racism and discrimination most often "doesn't make sense." But I wouldn't call it some illogical comic book thing at all. We see this kind of "comic book thing" all the time in the real world; it's so common it's not even startling.

See, even when Civil War happened, the public didn't turn on superheroes because they thought that one day all people wearing tights are just going to band together and overtake the world of non-tights-wearers; they simply thought that they weren't doing their jobs of saving people very well. You're never going to hear mutants being lambasted for that; mutants aren't known for saving people in the first place!

Different things, different stigmas. You simply can't group the entirety of mutants together with superheroes on the basis of having dangerous powers. Having dangerous powers is merely a fraction of the issue.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Short, and to the point: Racism is irrational, so you can't try and apply logic to it. It doesn't work. Want it to? Too bad. Logic and irrationality do not mix. In fact, one literally means "without rationality". To obtain rationality, one must have at least some working model of logic. To have irrationality, there is NO logic. Racism is just as redundant and repetitive. So explaining why people are racist towards one, and not the other, does not work. Why? Because you'd have to explain it rationally.

If they're racist towards mutants, they'll hate them irrationally regardless. It's how racism works.

 

[BrianWilly]

And on the flip side, people could have irrational fears about superheroes that should apply to mutants as well, but don't.

The thing I disagree with is the "It's just a comics thing, it doesn't have to make sense" perspective. This isn't Clark Kent's glasses. This isn't the comicbook equivalent of the Blue Screen of Death. Sometimes it's obvious why mutants get the rap where heroes don't, and sometimes it's completely incomprehensible, but there's no plot holes involved.

 

[Varient]

This was touched in the ultimates line Where the nature of the wasp's abilities come into question.

I also don't think she stands up for pietro and wanda much when they get bashed for being mutants and joining the team.

This is probably the ONLY reason I'd pick up an Ultimate book,... to read on that Universes spin on Mutant Hatred.

 

[November Rain]

Short, and to the point: Racism is irrational, so you can't try and apply logic to it. It doesn't work. Want it to? Too bad. Logic and irrationality do not mix. In fact, one literally means "without rationality". To obtain rationality, one must have at least some working model of logic. To have irrationality, there is NO logic. Racism is just as redundant and repetitive. So explaining why people are racist towards one, and not the other, does not work. Why? Because you'd have to explain it rationally.

If they're racist towards mutants, they'll hate them irrationally regardless. It's how racism works.

You know not all racism is 'truelly' irrational...

I know this idea may all go a bit paired shape but i think it ultimately comes down to the thought process of a change in status quo...

if on a small level, small things like cheaper labour causing one to be made redundant or a fear of a change in the local friendly neighbourhood that has changed due to an influx of people with their own social patterns.

Simple things like a language barrier in younger youths give them an inability to properly mix with those around them which is more likely to make them delinquents and misbehave (i feel).

That happens with with people coming to england but more importantly, also happens when brits happen to go on holiday abroad in europe, they arejust unaware of their longterm affect because they are only there (in person) for a short period of time.

'Irrational' is not how i see racism at the core, I think there is something generally to it. on a large scale. THe only irrational thing about it is the unwillingness to accept the change or combat the negative socio-economic parameters head on with the noobs to help move forward together as a new community.

 

[November Rain]

According to what? There's not much correlation between metahuman parents and mutant children. The vast majority of mutants are born to human parents, and even two mutant parents have given birth to a normal human child before. The FF even have a normal daughter (so far) alongside their mutant son.

Dude, i can name you more superhuman offspring that are powered/mutants than you can name me those who aren't.

There's definitely a correlation.

If you have powers now in any shape or form, your children (or at least one child) is almost certain to have powers as well.

 

[BrianWilly]

I don't think discrimination is literally irrational in that there's no reason for it, at least on the part of the discriminating. You ask a racist guy why he hates blacks and he might say "Because they're all thugs!" Which would be wrong, but that's his reason. As for the why and the how, well, he was probably just brought up that way. There; a rational explanation. Even the part where he maintains those beliefs in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is explainable through typical psychological behavior and conditioning.

The belief itself may be irrational, but there's nothing unknown about the process.

 

[2star]

Mutants represent the next stage in human evolution, people fear change. Superhumans like the Fantastic Four dont represent the future of humanity...

 

[November Rain]

I think that nutshell 'they are all thugs' view of racists is not actually the case and the majority of them have something socio-economic tangible reason rather than pidgeon-Holing assumptions.

Not to be rude but have you ever spoken to a racist?

 

[November Rain]

Mutants represent the next stage in human evolution, people fear change. Superhumans like the Fantastic Four dont represent the future of humanity...

even though their son is probably the most powerful mutant who will ever live?

 

[BrianWilly]

Well, I've never spoken to a full-on supremacist chasing me down in the streets or anything, but sure, I've spoken to racists.

Anyway, I was positing a hypothetical. I'm pretty sure no one is going to seriously answer "they're all thugs" to a serious question in polite company, though you can bet your ass that it's the exact kind of thing they'd joke about with their friends.

The point I was trying to make was that no one is going to answer "I just hate them irrationally, period, for no reason at all," either. There's always a reason. It may be an observable socially-ingrained class structure jargon, or it may be some random nonsense dreamt up to justify one fear or another...but there's always a reason.