Out of curiosity, is there anyone around here who disliked Michael Keaton's Batman?

[The Joker]

althought they both seem to live in the same fantasy world.

It's called reality.

Come into it some time when you're finished crying over two of the most successful and loved superhero movies ever.

Is that your best you can give that Batman Returns was better than Batman Forever when I use your OWN logic that you had about box office success makes it a good movie? dude you are seriously crippling your arguments big time.your second and third paragraph has a lot of truth to it but the first one hardly disproves my point.

Hold on I never said Batman Forever was the better film.Batman Returns was far better.

Another reason Forever made more than Returns is because it was way more kiddy oriented.Returns was aimed more towards maturer people than kids.Forever was way more kiddy friendly.

But still not the better movie.

 

[mister Lennon]

Loved superhero films?Good one, when you dreamed about it?

 

[LongDong]

Yeah, i did a joke before. Really, i dont think that they are the same person, althought they both seem to live in the same fantasy world.

Fantasy Land, heh heh, I am guessing they probably enjoy glory holes with each other.

 

[WhiteRat]

It's called reality.

Come into it some time when you're finished crying over two of the most successful and loved superhero movies ever.

the reality is that there are thousands out there who hated Burtons Batman movies.Batman is a character thats so well known and loved by so many you could have cast Willie Nelson in the role and it would have been the blockbuster at the theaters it was.Just about everywhere I went when that movie came out,I asked friends and neighbors who went to it 4 or 5 times why they went and saw it so many times and their answer was always the same-Because my kids kept pestering us to take them back.Familys made the movie successful mostly because their kids kept pestering them to take them back.That would just be plain ignorant to not believe that that did not go on all around the country.The adults for the most part liked it mainly because of Jack Nicholson as The Joker.Nicholson was the big star of that movie and why many people liked it.

 

[LongDong]

For the record, Batman Returns SUCKED. DeVito and Pfeiffer were great but the movie was pretty lame. Talk about kid orientated, a poodle catching the batarang? The cutesy penguins carrying off DeVito? This was the first of the Bat movies revisiting the camp style of the 60's. Lame flick.

 

[LongDong]

the reality is that there are thousands out there who hated Burtons Batman movies.Batman is a character thats so well known and loved by so many you could have cast Willie Nelson in the role and it would have been the blockbuster at the theaters it was.Just about everywhere I went when that movie came out,I asked friends and neighbors who went to it 4 or 5 times why they went and saw it so many times and their answer was always the same-Because my kids kept pestering us to take them back.Familys made the movie successful mostly because their kids kept pestering them to take them back.That would just be plain ignorant to not believe that that did not go on all around the country.The adults for the most part liked it mainly because of Jack Nicholson as The Joker.Nicholson was the big star of that movie and why many people liked it.

Nicolson made that movie for sure. He even got top billing. What does that say?

 

[The Joker]

Loved superhero films?Good one, when you dreamed about it?

No, I'm not that much a fan boy that I dream about these movies

I got this fact from newspapers,magazines,critics,fans,various internet websites. You know the usual places where you find information like this.

For every one fan that dislikes Burton's Batman movies, there's about 10 who loved them.

the reality is that there are thousands out there who hated Burtons Batman movies.

Where are they then?? Seriously where are these people?? Can you show me a website where the reviews for Burton's Batman movies are predominantly bad?? Because I can show you lots of websites crammed with positive reviews if you like.

Batman is a character thats so well known and loved by so many you could have cast Willie Nelson in the role and it would have been the blockbuster at the theaters it was

Don't be ridiculous. Look at what happened when Halle Berry was cast as Catwoman. Change is not recieved favorably by the public if not done tastefully and well.

And Burton's movies were done tastefully and well.

Just about everywhere I went when that movie came out,I asked friends and neighbors who went to it 4 or 5 times why they went and saw it so many times and their answer was always the same-Because my kids kept pestering us to take them back.Familys made the movie successful mostly because their kids kept pestering them to take them back.That would just be plain ignorant to not believe that that did not go on all around the country.The adults for the most part liked it mainly because of Jack Nicholson as The Joker.Nicholson was the big star of that movie and why many people liked it.

That is all assumption. You're completely ignoring critic and fan reviews too.

You can hate the Burton Batman movies all you like.More power to ya.But don't try and say it was successful because of pestering kids and the fact that Jack Nicholson was simply in it.

 

[LongDong]

No, I'm not that much a fan boy that I dream about these movies

I got this fact from newspapers,magazines,critics,fans,various internet websites. You know the usual places where you find information like this.

For every one fan that dislikes Burton's Batman movies, there's about 10 who loved them.



Where are they then?? Seriously where are these people?? Can you show me a website where the reviews for Burton's Batman movies are predominantly bad?? Because I can show you lots of websites crammed with positive reviews if you like.



Don't be ridiculous. Look at what happened when Halle Berry was cast as Catwoman. Change is not recieved favorably by the public if not done tastefully and well.

And Burton's movies were done tastefully and well.



That is all assumption. You're completely ignoring critic and fan reviews too.

You can hate the Burton Batman movies all you like.More power to ya.But don't try and say it was successful because of pestering kids and the fact that Jack Nicholson was simply in it.

And how many people loved The Mummy Returns or The Scorpion King or Van Helsing? Those movies were awful but made some money at the box office and many people loved them.

Your logic sucks.

 

[WhiteRat]

*sigh*

More stupid sarcasm. Your desperation is showing more than ever.



Oh lucky me, I get to debate with a guy who uses sarcasm and a joking line from Bob Kane as his defence



Where did I say he looks like Bruce Wayne?? Find me the post.

Jack Nicholson doesn't look like the Joker, Danny DeVito's Penguin didn't look like comic Penguin, Michael Gough and Michael Caine don't look like Alfred etc.

So what?? They gave such great performances that they were totally accepted as their characters. Keaton may not have looked exactly like comic Bruce Wayne/Batman, but he gave a great enough performance, and looked great in the costume, that he became the character he was portraying. That's why he's loved so much.

Simple as that.



I never denied that he didn't look the part. Open your eyes and read before you post.

Thinking before you post would help too.



I sincerely hope you don't look as stupid as you sound. Dick Grayson,Tim Drake and Jason Todd are nowhere near as big as Batman, and yet they can kick the ass of practically every villain Batman can, save maybe Bane.

Big body and muscles does not equal a skilled fighter.Little Bruce Lee proves that.



Stop being a moron and read what people are saying, and not what you think they're saying.



It's not the only nonsense you're speaking



Yeah you do that. The smell of success doesn't suit you. The smell of failure is a much more fitting scent for you

ActuallY Devito gave a horrible performace as Penguin.Nicholson and Gough DID give great performances but Devito did not and neither did Keaton as Bruce wayne anyways.He gave a decent performance as Batman and was good enough there but he was just horrible as Bruce Wayne.Again you ignore that Kane himself said he liked Kilmer the best and since your always using Kane as the word of god then according to your logic Kilmer was the best Batman before Bale came along.and keaton is not loved by all that many batman fans as atomic just pointed out.Keaton was so much out of shape that they had to make that muscled body armour suit to make him look muscular.and while you are talking about fighting skills,Keatons Batman fighting skills were poor and pathtic.

 

[The Joker]

And how many people loved The Mummy Returns or The Scorpion King or Van Helsing? Those movies were awful but made some money at the box office and many people loved them.

Your logic sucks.

What the hell are you talking about?? Most of them didn't make anywhere near the kind of money the Batman movies made,save the Mummy Returns [it actually made 3 million less than Batman Begins].

Not to mention you're shooting yourself in the foot because that logic can be applied to Batman Begins too. Which recieved as much positive fan reaction as Burton's movies did.

All you've got to say is YOU personally don't like them. Which is a minority opinion.

 

[The Joker]

ActuallY Devito gave a horrible performace as Penguin.Nicholson and Gough DID give great performances but Devito did not and neither did Keaton as Bruce wayne anyways.He gave a decent performance as batman and was good enough there but he was just horrible as Bruce wayneAgain you ignore that Kane himself said he liked Kilmer the best and since your always using Kane as the word of god then according to your logic Kilmer was the best Batman before Bale came along.and keaton is not loved by all that many batman fans as atomic just pointed out.Keaton was so much out of shape that they had to make that muscled body armour suit to make him look muscular.and while you are talking about fighting skills,Keatons Batman fighting skills were poor and pathtic.

Basically that's all your opinion.

I asked for proof of all this Burton hate, and you just regurgitated your opinion again.

We're done here.

 

[WhiteRat]

Basically that's all your opinion.

I asked for proof of all this Burton hate, and you just regurgitated your opinion again.

We're done here.

I just gave you the proof of it from the post that atomic guy gave that there are indeed thousands out there who hated Keaton with his link he provided,looks like I will have to give you that post he made that it is indeed fact and not opinion that thousands of batman fans did not like him.

 

[WhiteRat]

To those who would assert that the Michael Keaton Batman was largely embraced by the passionate Batman fan community, the best I can do is refer you to the exhaustively researched book 'Batman Unmasked' by Will Brooker. The relevant sub-chapter headings would be 'Batman and Fandom: Anticipation and Rejection' (p. 279) and 'Batman: A Tim Burton Film'. Brooker sums up: 'To many fans, they got it wrong. They blew it And, worse, they didn't care.'

okay here is is for you AGAIN Doc from this post that Atomic Battery has that proves there is indeed thousands out there that hated keaton as batman.

 

[The Joker]

okay here is is for you AGAIN Doc from this post that Atomic Battery has that proves there is indeed thousands out there that hated keaton as batman.

And I'll say again, if,and I say IF that is true, these "many fans" clearly had no impact on the critical and financial success of these movies.

Which I say again, makes them a minority.

 

[WhiteRat]

Got under my skin? hardly, that is two idiotic things to say in a row. Way to go!!! Batting a thousand so far



WOOHOO 3 for 3!!! You will be an all star yet. It is WIDELY known that KANE would have sold his own mnothers ashes for a few bucks. He was a licensing ****e who even went as far as to say that Batman and Robin was THE BEST Batman movie to date. OF COURSE he is going to pose next to ANYONE in the suit on the set, it will only help sell the movie and it shows a part of his history. he even stated PEEWEE HERMAN would have looked like Batman in that suit. Total knock on Keaton there.



League leader in batting average right here. You go boy. Again and I quote " he (Mr Kane himself)even stated PEEWEE HERMAN would have looked like Batman in that suit. Total knock on Keaton there."





Just read the pages the links direct you to dude. The maybe your ramblings would be wasted in another thread





Keep this up you might be bound for the hall of fame!!!

Lol.yeah from those comments that was total knock on Keaton there from Kane.LOL.yeah if he would bother to read the links to post he would see why his ramblings are insane.

 

[LongDong]

What the hell are you talking about?? Most of them didn't make anywhere near the kind of money the Batman movies made,save the Mummy Returns [it actually made 3 million less than Batman Begins].

Not to mention you're shooting yourself in the foot because that logic can be applied to Batman Begins too. Which recieved as much positive fan reaction as Burton's movies did.

All you've got to say is YOU personally don't like them. Which is a minority opinion.

I am not shooting myself in the foot at all dude, I am not the one saying a movie is good based on how much it makes. Derrrrr

 

[The Joker]

I am not shooting myself in the foot at all dude, I am not the one saying a movie is good based on how much it makes. Derrrrr

Neither am I.

I'm saying it's as good as it's box office take AND reviews. Derrrrr

 

[The Joker]

Lol.yeah from those comments that was total knock on Keaton there from Kane.LOL.yeah if he would bother to read the links to post he would see why his ramblings are insane.

What, as insane as saying the Spider-Man movies suck, despite their monstrous success and approval from critics and Stan Lee?? Yes WhiteRat here hates the Spider-Man movies as much as Burton's Batman movies, if not more so.

And that was not a knock at Keaton, as we've already established.

 

[LongDong]

Basically that's all your opinion.

I asked for proof of all this Burton hate, and you just regurgitated your opinion again.

We're done here.

Don't quit now buddy, we were just starting to love you.

What is funny was an argument being thrown around about how well keaton was loved and crediting the box office of Batman to him. Now I am not saying you so don't get your panties in a wad. Well if that were the case then how do these same box office revenue users explain the MAJOR drop off in total box office from batman 89 to Batman Returns?

Could it be that people did not want to watch some kinny little dude pretend to be a bad ass or that the movies were not as loved as fanboys pretend?

I for one enjoyed the first batman in its time. For what it was it is a fun movie. It is campy and outdated now and frankly yes, I always had a problem with Keaton as Batman. I would laugh at how he walked on boards in scenes wth Basinger to make him taller, yet in some scenes he obviously a couple inches shorter. I wish I still had the newspaper articles about the movie and the tricks of making it.

I also would laugh at how much he lacked mobility in the suit. Loved the car though boy did I love that car.

 

[WhiteRat]

And I'll say again, if,and I say IF that is true, these "many fans" clearly had no impact on the critical and financial success of these movies.

Which I say again, makes them a minority.

and I will say AGAIN that the reason Batman 89 was so popular is the proof you ignore that the financial success of these movies was based because of the kiddie factor.Batman is such a huge well known Icon figure that kids around the country pestered their familys to go back again and again to see the movie because their kids wanted to see him on the screen.Thats why Batman Begins did not do near as well at the box office because Batman 89 did not have to deal with the obstacle Begins did in that there had never been any batman movie made on the screen yet for batman fans and kids to pop a batman movie into the VCR and wactch again and again.also critics for the most part,only gave it 3 stars,not the 4 stars that superman and superman returns got,so if your going to use what critics have to say and finiacial success here,then that doesnt help your argument since critics obviously did not find it to be a magical movie like they did superman one and two.

 

[LongDong]

What, as insane as saying the Spider-Man movies suck, despite their monstrous success and approval from critics and Stan Lee?? Yes WhiteRat here hates the Spider-Man movies as much as Burton's Batman movies, if not more so.

And that was not a knock at Keaton, as we've already established.

I liked the first Spider-Man movie but the second was terrible!! So was X-2, what a crapfest.

 

[LongDong]

Neither am I.

I'm saying it's as good as it's box office take AND reviews. Derrrrr

Don't knock my sarcasm and say it is a fault of some sorts when you do the same thing yourself It shows you really do not have the legs to stand on in an argument or debate.

 

[The Joker]

Don't quit now buddy, we were just starting to love you.

But you've stopped now right??

What is funny was an argument being thrown around about how well keaton was loved

Not was loved,is loved.

and crediting the box office of Batman to him.

Oh it's not just down to him. The villains,action and special fx also had a hand in that. Like with all superhero movies.

Now I am not saying you so don't get your panties in a wad. Well if that were the case then how do these same box office revenue users explain the MAJOR drop off in total box office from batman 89 to Batman Returns?

I already explained this. Returns was not as kiddy oriented as the first one. That doesn't make it any less a great movie.

Could it be that people did not want to watch some kinny little dude pretend to be a bad ass or that the movies were not as loved as fanboys pretend?

Nope that had nothing to do with Keaton. If it was, he would have been slammed in the critic reviews of the movie.

 

[The Joker]

and I will say AGAIN that the reason Batman 89 was so popular is the proof you ignore that the financial success of these movies was based because of the kiddie factor.Batman is such a huge well known Icon figure that kids around the country pestered their familys to go back again and again to see the movie because their kids wanted to see him on the screen.Thats why Batman Begins did not do near as well at the box office because Batman 89 did not have to deal with the obstacle Begins did in that there had never been any batman movie made on the screen yet for batman fans and kids to pop a batman movie into the VCR and wactch again and again.also critics for the most part,only gave it 3 stars,not the 4 stars that superman and superman returns got,so if your going to use what critics have to say and finiacial success here,then that doesnt help your argument since critics obviously did not find it to be a magical movie like they did superman one and two.

Once again, that whole kids pestering their parents thing is your own assumption.Nothing more. Same as the kids popping the movie into their VCR. What the heck are you basing this on?? Pure specualtion.

What has Superman got to do with this?? If you're going to compare the movies to other superhero movies, how about we compare the critical and financial success of the Spider-Man movies to Batman Begins??

but the second was terrible!! So was X-2, what a crapfest.

Another minority opinion. You should start a little club

Don't knock my sarcasm and say it is a fault of some sorts when you do the same thing yourself It shows you really do not have the legs to stand on in an argument or debate.

Ever hear the phrase: fight fire with fire??

What's the matter, does your own medicine taste bitter??

 

[WhiteRat]

What, as insane as saying the Spider-Man movies suck, despite their monstrous success and approval from critics and Stan Lee?? Yes WhiteRat here hates the Spider-Man movies as much as Burton's Batman movies, if not more so.

And that was not a knock at Keaton, as we've already established.

oh please dont give me that old stuid and laughable logic that the spider-man movies are good because of their monstrous success and approval from critics nonsense and stan lee liked them nonsense.The Lizard will be the first one to tell he showed a link years ago that proved Stan Lee hated the idea of them altering spider-mans physiology like they did and did not approve of them doing so.You can also do a google search on cinemescape back then where back then they quoted him that he was not at all pleased with the goblin suit either.again,That hardly sounds like a man pleased with the spiderman movies.the same thing applys to spiderman that applys to batman here,without its extreme popularity he has,no way does a movie like spiderman and batman do so well at the box office like it does.to your own logic,the star wars movie-the phantom menace is the best star wars movie ever ,better than empire strikes back which most fans and critics consider the best star wars movie.but because you want to base it off finincial success,your logic is that the phantom menace is a good movie and better than empire strikes back.touche. but this is the batman section,were not here to discuss spiderman now so thats all irrevent.