Homecoming Out with the amazing and in with the Marvel Lounge - Part 8

[CaptainWagner]

I broke 80 yesterday for the first time of this season. So that's pretty cool.

Congrats! That's way better than I could ever do! t:

 

[JOE]

Congrats! That's way better than I could ever do! t:

74 is my personal best but that was a freak of nature day lol. Drained everything inside 15 ft and didn't miss a fairway lol!

 

[Oscorp]

Ugh, that Misc. Comic Films section is such a pain. Was visiting it because of the "vs." threads and wow is that forum section filled with ******** DC fanboys who forces in hate on the Marvel films in every post they can in every thread possible. Apparently Marvel Studios is only successful thanks to bandwagoners who are unintelligent, whereas any criticism on DC films is blasphemy. DC films are intelligent and Marvel films are dumb. There are some extreme strawman arguements for why things in the Marvel films are so "dumb" and "terrible". Apparently, in The Winter Soldier, Marvel Studios tried to make a worldwide meme of "Hail Hydra" but "failed miserably". You hear how that sounds?

I see this same kind of minority complex in other places as well such as CBM. Why is it that when praising one thing, some people feel the need to mindlessly bash something else, insult fans of that something else, and shove it down people's throats? It must hurt so bad to admit that Marvel Studios is having great success and is being very influental (otherwise I doubt we'd get Batman v. Superman so soon) much in the same way Batman Begins was? How can one say that Marvel's actions scenes are "CGI fests" while at the same time looking forward to Justice League (which will perhaps require more CGI)? Hypocrisy, I tell you. But mainly, the answer is jealousy due to some kind of weird sense of loyalty. Because God forbid enjoying a variety of things.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

There is always someone nitpicking something to the death of it.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Ugh, that Misc. Comic Films section is such a pain. Was visiting it because of the "vs." threads and wow is that forum section filled with ******** DC fanboys who forces in hate on the Marvel films in every post they can in every thread possible. Apparently Marvel Studios is only successful thanks to bandwagoners who are unintelligent, whereas any criticism on DC films is blasphemy. DC films are intelligent and Marvel films are dumb. There are some extreme strawman arguements for why things in the Marvel films are so "dumb" and "terrible". Apparently, in The Winter Soldier, Marvel Studios tried to make a worldwide meme of "Hail Hydra" but "failed miserably". You hear how that sounds?

I see this same kind of minority complex in other places as well such as CBM. Why is it that when praising one thing, some people feel the need to mindlessly bash something else, insult fans of that something else, and shove it down people's throats? It must hurt so bad to admit that Marvel Studios is having great success and is being very influental (otherwise I doubt we'd get Batman v. Superman so soon) much in the same way Batman Begins was? How can one say that Marvel's actions scenes are "CGI fests" while at the same time looking forward to Justice League (which will perhaps require more CGI)? Hypocrisy, I tell you. But mainly, the answer is jealousy due to some kind of weird sense of loyalty. Because God forbid enjoying a variety of things.

The DCU was just born in 2013, so it's hard to say whether DCU will end up at the top or the bottom, but Man Of Steel was a mess. The over-arcing plot of the movie was okay, got really no complaints there, but it's the details that derail that movie. Henry Cavill isn't a great actor imo. I understand that Superman's personality is pretty simple in the comics, but Cavill's performance was way too monotone. I don't remember him saying anything light hearted or jokey. The movie is way too busy being self-important that they don't take any time showing the good times in the Kent family. Not that they would have to dedicate multiple scenes for that, but mix some of that in there. All the interaction there was with pa' Kent was all somber and serious, so when he ends up in that tornado I was just glad we were done with that character. I get that at the beginning of the scene when they were fighting in the car, it's supposed to be more tragic since the last thing they did was fighting, but it doesn't work when all the previous scenes were nothing but somber & serious so there's no proper contrast (a note: Raimi's Spider-man did that aspect RIGHT).

But back to Clark Kent, there was a lot of chances to show the more light hearted side of him. I know Clark/Superman is not a motor mouth, but he benefits a lot from classic funny and snappy dialogue. Just flashing a couple smiles wont be enough in the midst of all the sadness and moping. Batman smiles sometimes too, that doesn't mean he is a lighthearted character, at least in the sense that Superman should be. And if you argue there wasn't any room for that in the script, well then they should've made room!! It's their movie ain't it? It's not my fault I'm not reading into a personality trait that's not portrayed in the movie.

 

[Oscorp]

The DCU was just born in 2013, so it's hard to say whether DCU will end up at the top or the bottom, but Man Of Steel was a mess. The over-arcing plot of the movie was okay, got really no complaints there, but it's the details that derail that movie. Henry Cavill isn't a great actor imo. I understand that Superman's personality is pretty simple in the comics, but Cavill's performance was way too monotone. I don't remember him saying anything light hearted or jokey. The movie is way too busy being self-important that they don't take any time showing the good times in the Kent family. Not that they would have to dedicate multiple scenes for that, but mix some of that in there. All the interaction there was with pa' Kent was all somber and serious, so when he ends up in that tornado I was just glad we were done with that character. I get that at the beginning of the scene when they were fighting in the car, it's supposed to be more tragic since the last thing they did was fighting, but it doesn't work when all the previous scenes were nothing but somber & serious so there's no proper contrast (a note: Raimi's Spider-man did that aspect RIGHT).

But back to Clark Kent, there was a lot of chances to show the more light hearted side of him. I know Clark/Superman is not a motor mouth, but he benefits a lot from classic funny and snappy dialogue. Just flashing a couple smiles wont be enough in the midst of all the sadness and moping. Batman smiles sometimes too, that doesn't mean he is a lighthearted character, at least in the sense that Superman should be. And if you argue there wasn't any room for that in the script, well then they should've made room!! It's their movie ain't it? It's not my fault I'm not reading into a personality trait that's not portrayed in the movie.

Well said, I agree with you on everything here. It's funny how Nolan's Batman films have more lighthearted moments with humour than a Superman film. I love Batman and I actually like Superman too, but I'm not a fan of Snyder being the mind behind the DCCU as it seems. I hope he'll deliver a good BvS film but I haven't liked anything from the info we have of that one so far aside from Batman's suit. I hope Ben Affleck has some influence on the films.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I feel you, Oscorp. I'm primarily a Marvel guy but that doesn't deter me from enjoying something DC related nor do I feel some sort of weird attachment to Marvel that prohibits me from enjoying anything else. Hating something based on that is just silly. And stupid. There's plenty of Marvel things that I dislike as much as there are DC things that I enjoy.

For example, I am not much of a Batman fan--meaning, I am not very well educated on his runs in the comics, just tidbits here and there. However, I love B:TAS, his appearances in JLU, the Arkham video games and both BB and TDK. It would be unfortunate of me to try and put those things down simply because I tend to like Marvel characters more. Or wish some sort of downfall or fail on something just cause it's DC.

On the subject of MoS...the thing that bothered me about Cavill's performance and maybe how his character was written is that there was no joy in him being Superman. I think back to Reeve and his version of Supes--didn't matter if he was saving a cat out of a tree or catching a falling helicopter mid-air, he had a smile on his face. He loved and I loved that he really took pride in being Superman and helping people no matter how big nor small the obstacle.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Part two of my Civil War fan-outline;

Finished up Part 2 of my Civil War Fan-Outline, if anyone's interested:

Spoiler

-Some time is spent with Cap's crew as they rendezvous with Hawkeye and hunt down leads after Zemo. Bucky has gathered a file on him, which explains his backstory and offers clues on how to find him. Natasha questions Cap's discernment in private, while Sam sticks up for him. Cap and Sharon begin to show signs of romance. That night, Wanda has a vision of what Stark's plans will bring about: "A perfect world, but at the cost of thousands of lives".
- At HQ, Gyrich and Ross are livid to learn that Cap has escaped. Stark, however, is more concerned with the Acadamy. He spends "quality time" with T'Challa, as we learn more about the prince's background. They bond over the loss of their fathers. We also have a nice look at star pupil Peter Parker.
-Following Bucky's leads, Cap's team raids Zemo's base.They fight there way in and catch glimpses of his experiments, which include Emil Blonsky, The Abomination. Zemo easily beats most of the team, and gains the upper hand over Cap. He offers everyone a chance to "become part of the future", before he, Crossbones, and an awakened Blonsky teleport away.
-At HQ, it is revealed that Dr. Sofen smuggled in a homing device, which allows Zemo's crew to teleport right into the middle of Stark's Acadamy. A fight breaks out, before Gyrich steps in, revealing that he and Ross had been working with Zemo to gather Intel and assets they couldn't. None of the heroes are initially okay with this, but Stark is won over by Zemo's charisma. He has built a close relationship with the Wakandan Chiefs and will be overseeing the negotiations with him.
-In private, T'Challa reveals to Stark that his father never trusted Zemo, and he believes that the Baron was involved in the death of his father. Stark assures him that isn't the case, and readies a team to recapture Cap in case he tries to meddle with the negotiations. T'Challa declines to join, and Vision refuses, offering a warning against trusting Gyrich and Zemo over Cap. This leaves Stark with a team of War Machine, Ant-Man, a newly suited Wasp, and a crew of his top students (Including the newly dubbed Spider-man). Rhodey and Scott both question going after Cap, but Stark asserts his leadership. He also allows Zemo to procure Blood and Yellowjacket, but not a mystery asset, and leads his team off into the night.
-Cap's team has recovered files at Zemo's base pertaining to to the Wakandan negotiations, and a contingency to take over the country if the need arises. They quickly make plans to move to the border, where Cap is contacted by a secret benefactor. They arrive at a rendezvous at make it across the border. Their benefactor is revealed to be T'Challa. Suddenly, lights appear in the distance. Stark's Avengers are here, and Natasha summoned them.
-Zemo's team arrives in Wakanda. He has brought along the "off limits" asset, and instructs Crossbones not activate it unless things go wrong.
-At HQ, Vision wakes up from his "sleep" and breaks out, despite Gyrich and Ross' attempts to stop him.
-An epic fight breaks out between Cap's team and Stark's forces. War Machine vs Falcon, Sharon vs. Black Widow, and of course Captain America vs. Iron Man.
-When T'Challa doesn't arrive at negotiations, his step-brother Hunter (or Elliot Ross) fills in. The talks go poorly, however, for the Prince has shared his suspicions with the chief. Hunter reveals footage of Crossbones at the scene of the attack. In reply, he covertly signals his team.
-Cut back to the heroes fighting and Vision racing to the scene.
-A blue blur races through the Wakandan embassy while Zemo calmly begins to explain his ideology to Hunter. Suddenly, the blur breaks into the room, taking out the guards and stops, revealing none other than Pietro Maximoff.
-This revelation is felt by Wanda, who is knocked out of the battle by the mental backlash. This distracts Cap, allowing Tony to get the upper hand. Rhodey tries to get him to stop the fight, to no avail.
-Vision crashes into the embassy. He proceeds to try and take on all the Masters of Evil by himself, only to be overwhelmed by their numbers and technology specially designed by Zemo for Stark in case any Avenger ever went rogue.
-Wanda sees this psychicly, and uses her powers to pull the fighting heroes apart. She, Rhodey, and Spiderman together convince both sides to unite for the common good, and they speed off together towards the embassy.
-A massive battle begins between the united Avengers and the Masters of Evil. Antman shrinks inside Vision to free him, then jumps out to turn big for the first time, swatting Blood out of the air. The resurrected Quicksilver wrecks havoc on the team until he comes face to face with Wanda. She gets inside his head, forcing him to remember who he is, and takes them both out of the fight. Zemo makes a run for the armory, where he gains the upper hand on Tony only for Cap to jump in at the last minute and....


Ending 1
Cap sacrifices himself to save Stark, who blasts Zemo in the face and flies out into the battlefield, where the Avengers are celebrating, carrying the body of his fallen friend. In the aftermath of Cap's death, all opposition to the S.R.A. ends. Stark kicks Gyrich out of his council and arrests the surviving Masters, except for Zemo, who is missing. Peter chooses to leave the Acadamy, but receives the parting gift of a new Spiderman costume. Wanda and Vision help Pietro readjust to life. Gen. Ross recruits Rhodey, Natasha, and Bucky for a new, top-secret black ops team, with a Red Hulk tease. Lastly Stark approaches Sam with Cap's old shield. T'Challa is crowned king, and offers Hawkeye a new safe haven in Wakanda for his family. Clint himself officially retires as an Avenger. He says that Steve always held that Captain America was more than a man, he was a dream. And a dream can never die. The film ends with Sam, now as Captain America, giving an inspirational team to the New Avengers, whom he now leads.


Ending 2
Is nearly the same as the first ending, only with Steve surviving. Still technically a fugitive and unable to rejoin the Avengers, he passes his shield on to Bucky, offers some words of wisdom, and drives off into the sunset with Sharon to discover what this new world holds for him. Also, in this ending, Zemo is captured and imprisoned alongside the surviving Masters.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Well said, I agree with you on everything here. It's funny how Nolan's Batman films have more lighthearted moments with humour than a Superman film. I love Batman and I actually like Superman too, but I'm not a fan of Snyder being the mind behind the DCCU as it seems. I hope he'll deliver a good BvS film but I haven't liked anything from the info we have of that one so far aside from Batman's suit. I hope Ben Affleck has some influence on the films.

There was something totally odd about the line "Tell me, do you bleed? You will". Is that something Batman would say unless he was 100% convinced that Superman's without a doubt evil? After hearing the line I'm almost expecting it to be Clayface pretending to be Batman


(...not really, but you get the point)

 

[Oscorp]

I feel you, Oscorp. I'm primarily a Marvel guy but that doesn't deter me from enjoying something DC related nor do I feel some sort of weird attachment to Marvel that prohibits me from enjoying anything else. Hating something based on that is just silly. And stupid. There's plenty of Marvel things that I dislike as much as there are DC things that I enjoy.

For example, I am not much of a Batman fan--meaning, I am not very well educated on his runs in the comics, just tidbits here and there. However, I love B:TAS, his appearances in JLU, the Arkham video games and both BB and TDK. It would be unfortunate of me to try and put those things down simply because I tend to like Marvel characters more. Or wish some sort of downfall or fail on something just cause it's DC.

On the subject of MoS...the thing that bothered me about Cavill's performance and maybe how his character was written is that there was no joy in him being Superman. I think back to Reeve and his version of Supes--didn't matter if he was saving a cat out of a tree or catching a falling helicopter mid-air, he had a smile on his face. He loved and I loved that he really took pride in being Superman and helping people no matter how big nor small the obstacle.

Yeah I totally agree. I mean, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but when people always feel the need to bash something else while praising something, it seems like that aforementioned attachment is present. It's the same thing with all kind of rivalries (real or not) out there such as the "console war" or "Raimi vs. Webb". It's ridiculous.

You're spot on about Superman and why I like him in other media such as the Reeves films or the cartoons (I haven't read Supes comics). While Batman is the dark villain that instills fear, I view Superman as the one that brings light and hope.

There was something totally odd about the line "Tell me, do you bleed? You will". Is that something Batman would say unless he was 100% convinced that Superman's without a doubt evil? After hearing the line I'm almost expecting it to be Clayface pretending to be Batman


(...not really, but you get the point)

I hope there's a good context to such a line. I mean, in itself it's a good enough reference to the fact that Superman is an alien and not like the rest of us. But it doesn't feel right coming from Batman.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Yeah I totally agree. I mean, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but when people always feel the need to bash something else while praising something, it seems like that aforementioned attachment is present. It's the same thing with all kind of rivalries (real or not) out there such as the "console war" or "Raimi vs. Webb". It's ridiculous.

You're spot on about Superman and why I like him in other media such as the Reeves films or the cartoons (I haven't read Supes comics). While Batman is the dark villain that instills fear, I view Superman as the one that brings light and hope.

To the first emboldened part...No, you're not imo. I see that type of behavior consistently. I just choose to keep my mouth shut though and quietly move on.

To the second...exactly. IMO, MoS missed this notion by a wide margin.

 

[Oscorp]

To the first emboldened part...No, you're not imo. I see that type of behavior consistently. I just choose to keep my mouth shut though and quietly move on.

To the second...exactly. IMO, MoS missed this notion by a wide margin.

I'm at least glad to hear I'm not the only one, then.

Definitely. I mean, the destruction caused by him and Zod is perhaps unavoidable at some point. But it didn't feel like Superman even tried to take the battle to somewhere the people aren't in danger because of their brawling. It didn't seem like Superman cared about protecting anyone else than his family and Louis Lane. My understanding of the character, that I've come to enjoy more in the later years so it's perhaps flawed, is that Superman's main struggle lies in him trying to save everyone, and the pain when he can't.

 

[Oscorp]

Just watched Iron Man 3 again. It's weird how much worse it felt this time. I mean, the first half I think is good and very solid with the exception of Aldrich's silly start. It gets out of hand though like they didn't even try. My major pros and cons:

Cons: The villain (or "villains") were pretty bad. I'm not a fan of Trevor's "Mandarin" when he's portrayed as an "Usama bin Laden". I didn't care when it turned out he was fake. I didn't enjoy Aldrich either though.
While the first half is good, the later half is just messy and in the third act it's like the director just said "screw it!". The final action sequence is over the top and gets ridiculous at times. Pepper at the end was a face palm moment.
Tony Stark putting Pepper in risk by threatening the terrorist to take on Tony at his own house was just stupid writing in my opinion. I couldn't by it as merely a mistake made by a Tony in affect. It was too much.
At places the CGI is shoddy.
Pros: I actually enjoyed the first half and the scenes with the kid.
Robert Downey Jr is perfect as Tony Stark. While the film itself is weak, he does a great job as Tony. I totally bought his anxiety.
Some scenes were cool visually, like the destruction of Tony's place, even though the leading up to it was stupid.

I remember liking it while watching it at the cinema. Now I'd say the film is neither terrible nor good.

I've come to the conclusion that Phase II is like a roller coaster of highs and lows, with TWS, GotG and AoU being some of the finest Marvel films, while IM3 and T:TDW I'd say are just above IM2.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Just watched Iron Man 3 again. It's weird how much worse it felt this time. I mean, the first half I think is good and very solid with the exception of Aldrich's silly start. It gets out of hand though like they didn't even try. My major pros and cons:

Cons: The villain (or "villains") were pretty bad. I'm not a fan of Trevor's "Mandarin" when he's portrayed as an "Usama bin Laden". I didn't care when it turned out he was fake. I didn't enjoy Aldrich either though.
While the first half is good, the later half is just messy and in the third act it's like the director just said "screw it!". The final action sequence is over the top and gets ridiculous at times. Pepper at the end was a face palm moment.
Tony Stark putting Pepper in risk by threatening the terrorist to take on Tony at his own house was just stupid writing in my opinion. I couldn't by it as merely a mistake made by a Tony in affect. It was too much.
At places the CGI is shoddy.
Pros: I actually enjoyed the first half and the scenes with the kid.
Robert Downey Jr is perfect as Tony Stark. While the film itself is weak, he does a great job as Tony. I totally bought his anxiety.
Some scenes were cool visually, like the destruction of Tony's place, even though the leading up to it was stupid.

I remember liking it while watching it at the cinema. Now I'd say the film is neither terrible nor good.

I've come to the conclusion that Phase II is like a roller coaster of highs and lows, with TWS, GotG and AoU being some of the finest Marvel films, while IM3 and T:TDW I'd say are just above IM2.

I agree mostly, but differences in my opinion:
- I loved Kingsley's Mandarin
- Thor 2 was awful in it's mediocrity and possibly even worse than IM2. Thor's lore has so much more potential than both of his films combined, while it's a miracle that the first 2 Iron Man movies managed to have an interesting villain considering there's not many of them in Iron Man comics
- imo GotG is a little over rated, while still really entertaining. I don't say that just to be like "I'm unique cause my opinion is different". I did love the trailer and let my expectations go just a little too high. Well that and omg the villain was lame

 

[Oscorp]

I agree mostly, but differences in my opinion:
- I loved Kingsley's Mandarin
- Thor 2 was awful in it's mediocrity and possibly even worse than IM2. Thor's lore has so much more potential than both of his films combined, while it's a miracle that the first 2 Iron Man movies managed to have an interesting villain considering there's not many of them in Iron Man comics
- imo GotG is a little over rated, while still really entertaining. I don't say that just to be like "I'm unique cause my opinion is different". I did love the trailer and let my expectations go just a little too high. Well that and omg the villain was lame

I might agree with you about T:TDW. Perhaps IM2 isn't as bad as I remember it.

I can see why one would think GotG is overrated. It's not as tight as The Winter Soldier for example. And there's nothing wrong with having an opinion that might differ!

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I might agree with you about T:TDW. Perhaps IM2 isn't as bad as I remember it.

I can see why one would think GotG is overrated. It's not as tight as The Winter Soldier for example. And there's nothing wrong with having an opinion that might differ!

What did you think of the villain Ronan? Just curious, since the character is usually the biggest complaint about the movie

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Just watched Iron Man 3 again. It's weird how much worse it felt this time. I mean, the first half I think is good and very solid with the exception of Aldrich's silly start. It gets out of hand though like they didn't even try. My major pros and cons:

Cons: The villain (or "villains") were pretty bad. I'm not a fan of Trevor's "Mandarin" when he's portrayed as an "Usama bin Laden". I didn't care when it turned out he was fake. I didn't enjoy Aldrich either though.
While the first half is good, the later half is just messy and in the third act it's like the director just said "screw it!". The final action sequence is over the top and gets ridiculous at times. Pepper at the end was a face palm moment.
Tony Stark putting Pepper in risk by threatening the terrorist to take on Tony at his own house was just stupid writing in my opinion. I couldn't by it as merely a mistake made by a Tony in affect. It was too much.
At places the CGI is shoddy.
Pros: I actually enjoyed the first half and the scenes with the kid.
Robert Downey Jr is perfect as Tony Stark. While the film itself is weak, he does a great job as Tony. I totally bought his anxiety.
Some scenes were cool visually, like the destruction of Tony's place, even though the leading up to it was stupid.

He was mostly deprived of sleep, someone like that can't make the best judgments.

I agree mostly, but differences in my opinion:
- I loved Kingsley's Mandarin
- Thor 2 was awful in it's mediocrity and possibly even worse than IM2. Thor's lore has so much more potential than both of his films combined, while it's a miracle that the first 2 Iron Man movies managed to have an interesting villain considering there's not many of them in Iron Man comics
- imo GotG is a little over rated, while still really entertaining. I don't say that just to be like "I'm unique cause my opinion is different". I did love the trailer and let my expectations go just a little too high. Well that and omg the villain was lame

Agreed about Kingsley's Man... Trevor.
I expected GotG to be Star Wars, I'm not a fan of Star Wars, but I had fun watching GotG. And I do think it is kind of an overrated film.

 

[Oscorp]

What did you think of the villain Ronan? Just curious, since the character is usually the biggest complaint about the movie

He was like a better version of Malekith, yet still a generic villain. I enjoyed that he came off as pretty threatening but in the end he was basically a "I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL!!!" villain.

 

[BatsDC]

Does anyone know what determines the order of the names of those viewing a thread?

I'm assuming it goes from left to right based on how long they've been viewing the page (left being shortest, right being longest)

Just wondered if anyone knew, not that it's important aha

 

[BatsDC]

Oh, and the best thing about Iron Man 3 was Eric Savin by far. There is no argument

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Does anyone know what determines the order of the names of those viewing a thread?

I'm assuming it goes from left to right based on how long they've been viewing the page (left being shortest, right being longest)

Just wondered if anyone knew, not that it's important aha

Never bothered with the idea.

 

[SymbioticToxin]

He was like a better version of Malekith, yet still a generic villain. I enjoyed that he came off as pretty threatening but in the end he was basically a "I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL!!!" villain.

Basically. Granted, I still like those kinda villains, but yeah he basically was a generic villain.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I love his moments with Drax, those are the highlights of his moments before Star-Dance (distracting you bro)

 

[SymbioticToxin]

They should have established a bit more of his reasoning for why he was doing what he was doing. Possibly up till he uses the one of the infinity gems, where you could argue the power kinda warped his mind.

 

[JOE]

Season 1 of the Flash was awesome guys! Stoked for season 2!