Comics Overall thoughts of Spidey being an Avenger: Good or Bad?

[Gregatron]

Bad. Spider-Man has always worked better as a solo character. He's the guy who makes mistakes, who is still learning the craft. He's the guy who looks in awe at the "real" super-heroes running around. He's the guy who sits on the sidelines eating popcorn with Daredevil while the Avengers and the FF attack Galactus. He's the guy who works best fighting street-level crime and low-powered egomaniacs like Dr. Octopus, not cosmic-powered fiends like Thanos or Kang.

Just another in a long series of steps taking Spidey away from what he was meant to be.

 

[KingOfDreams]

Spidey has always been a loner, and that's become a big part of who he is. So while I am enjoying New Avengers, overall I do not like the idea of Spider-Man being a part of a team.

 

[Jimmy-San]

That's not the original portrayal of Spidey, Gragatron, and IMO that Byrne FF issue was RIDICULOUS! Spidey being like "I'm useless" while THE FRIGGIN' WASP helps out against Galactus??? That was beyond weak.


Spidey shouldn't be limited (and most writers, including Stan Lee, haven't limited him in this way) to fighting one power level or being in one set of situations.


He should range from fighting street levellers way below him in alloes, to guys like Ock and Venom who face him on a grander scale, to cosmic menaces. Of those, the middle option is the most at home for him. He should feel like he's playing in the junior leagues at the time whenever he fights Bullseye, but should know he's out of his league when tackling Magneto.


IMO, Spidey actually gets elevated in how interesting he is when he's facing things out of his element, which is why I beleive Stan Lee gave him such a varied rogue's gallery.


-Jimmy

 

[kamesan]

They've done that already somewhere in the '70's. The reason that he didn't get abducted in the Avenger's ranks is b-cuz he has too many feredal warrants or something to that effect.

 

[Gregatron]

That's not the original portrayal of Spidey, Gragatron, and IMO that Byrne FF issue was RIDICULOUS! Spidey being like "I'm useless" while THE FRIGGIN' WASP helps out against Galactus??? That was beyond weak.


Spidey shouldn't be limited (and most writers, including Stan Lee, haven't limited him in this way) to fighting one power level or being in one set of situations.


He should range from fighting street levellers way below him in alloes, to guys like Ock and Venom who face him on a grander scale, to cosmic menaces. Of those, the middle option is the most at home for him. He should feel like he's playing in the junior leagues at the time whenever he fights Bullseye, but should know he's out of his league when tackling Magneto.


IMO, Spidey actually gets elevated in how interesting he is when he's facing things out of his element, which is why I beleive Stan Lee gave him such a varied rogue's gallery.


-Jimmy

The occasional cosmic baddie MIGHT be okay, but cosmic stuff and magic have never worked with Spidey. He should be in enough trouble with clowns like Doc Ock and the Scorpion. He's a loner who's always in trouble. Let the Avengers and the rest save the WORLD. Spidey's got himself, his loved ones, and the city to worry about.

 

[Jimmy-San]

Well, Doc Ock's also been a threat to Iron Man and Reed Richards before. Spidey has a varied rogue's gallery --- some are major threats; others aren't.


As for cosmic and magic stuff "never" working, I must disagree ... In fact, one of the team-ups with Dr. Strange late in Lee's run is Romita's favorite story he ever worked on ... Stan Lee alone had Spidey mix it up with The Silver Surfer, Dr. Doom, The Fantastic Four, The Hulk, and Xandu (with Dr. Strange). He had a few Spidey/Strange team-ups.


Spidey being a "street hero" is something I think is left over from the early 70's. In reality, he's been battling cosmic types as much as pitifully powered street levellers. On average, he's somewhere between those two extremes, though leaning more to the street types.


-Jimmy

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

That's not the original portrayal of Spidey, Gragatron, and IMO that Byrne FF issue was RIDICULOUS! Spidey being like "I'm useless" while THE FRIGGIN' WASP helps out against Galactus??? That was beyond weak.


Spidey shouldn't be limited (and most writers, including Stan Lee, haven't limited him in this way) to fighting one power level or being in one set of situations.

I agree whole heartedly. While i absolutely LOVE Byrne's run on FF, i always thought that scene during the battle with Galactus was bogus. There is no way on earth Peter would sit back and let his allies take all the risk, especially with the fate of the planet at stake.

That to me was a very poor example of who and what Peter Parker is.

 

[Gregatron]

I agree whole heartedly. While i absolutely LOVE Byrne's run on FF, i always thought that scene during the battle with Galactus was bogus. There is no way on earth Peter would sit back and let his allies take all the risk, especially with the fate of the planet at stake.

That to me was a very poor example of who and what Peter Parker is.

On the contrary, it shows that Peter is SMART enough to know when he's outclassed, and when to leave the big jobs to the big guns, like the Avengers.

What could Spider-Man do against GALACTUS, an entity with more cosmic power than we mere mortals can dream of (even weakened as he was in FF # 242-244)? Spray webbing in his face? Leap around and punch him?

Indeed, the original Secret Wars series showed us what Spidey could do in a battle with Galactus---he almost got STEPPED ON by him.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I'd wager that Peter could have easily brought as much to the table as Reed, Cap, and Wasp did...if not more so.

And since when has being out classed ever hindered Spider-Man before? Certainly not the times he has gone into battle against Juggernaut, Firelord, Morlun, Iron Man 2020, The Hulk, etc.,....

 

[LobokDaikon]

On the contrary, it shows that Peter is SMART enough to know when he's outclassed, and when to leave the big jobs to the big guns, like the Avengers.

What could Spider-Man do against GALACTUS, an entity with more cosmic power than we mere mortals can dream of (even weakened as he was in FF # 242-244)? Spray webbing in his face? Leap around and punch him?

Indeed, the original Secret Wars series showed us what Spidey could do in a battle with Galactus---he almost got STEPPED ON by him.

You never know if you don't try. And isn't that what being a superhero is all about? The super means their powers, and the hero means they do heroic things, they overcome the odds. I mean, you cite the original Secret Wars when Spider-Man didn't do much, but what about against Firelord? He beat someone he had no business beating, all by himself, although with the help of many conveniently located abandoned buildings. What could he do when flanked by some of the greatest assembled heroes on the planet? That's what the Avengers are all about. Many of their ranks aren't any more powerful or versatile than Spider-Man, but collectively, they face cosmic threats.

 

[Captivated]

Does Spider-man work as a New Avenger? I guess it depends on the writer and story.

I was looking forward to the possibilities, but have enjoyed the New Avengers less and less and less... For the most part his role has been minor to [size=-1]insignificant... [/size]characterized as goofy second-stringer, who has impulse-control issues. I know he's not the main character, but there is so little of him here, it's getting close to a deal-killer for me.

I usually get HC books of titles I collect, but I'm stopping with the single issues... no reason to re-read or collect IMO. I may stop buying altogether and just glance over them in the store.

But, on the other hand, I have really enjoyed him being a New Avenger in Breakout and ASM. The Hydra story has been great. The potential is working there. As a Spidey fan, I'm obviously going to enjoy it more with Spider-man in a staring role, and the other Avengers as a supporting cast (I agree, he really needed some supporting characters).

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

Bad. Spider-Man has always worked better as a solo character. He's the guy who makes mistakes, who is still learning the craft. He's the guy who looks in awe at the "real" super-heroes running around. He's the guy who sits on the sidelines eating popcorn with Daredevil while the Avengers and the FF attack Galactus. He's the guy who works best fighting street-level crime and low-powered egomaniacs like Dr. Octopus, not cosmic-powered fiends like Thanos or Kang.

Just another in a long series of steps taking Spidey away from what he was meant to be.

Your posts seem to be pretty down on Spidey to me. I get what you're saying about Galactus - but the same could be said about someone like Captain America. What does Cap bring to the table that Spider-Man can't?

As for the emboldened text, I would have to say this is a limited view of the character. This is an aspect of the character, yes - but one more accurate in 1962 than it is today. Peter Parker has grown and learned his craft. He's not a rookie super-hero. He's up there with the best of them, even if he himself doesn't realize it.

 

[Jimmy-San]

If you'd read the issue, Galactus was at his weakest ever. He was probably just a peg above Thanos in power at the time. He was literally near the brink of death from hunger. As I said, THE WASP helped out against Galactus, by distracting him. Why couldn't Spidey do the same thing? He did so against Omega, Thanos' Galactus clone in Infinity Abyss, ditto the Infinity Union-weilding Nebula, left himself open to attack by himself attacking Thanos to knock him off-balance (giving Thor 2 an opening to lay a real hurting on him) in IG, and did much the same against The Stranger.


Spidey could've at least web-tripped him or leapt around and annoyed him. Everyone there, except for Dr. Strange, Thor, Iron Man, The Thing, and maybe The Human Torch or Sue was completely useless as far as truly hurting Galactus (in fact even they were causing only minor damage), but Cap, Wasp, and Reed were providing strategies and distractions, which were helping their team.


I think one of the few good parts of "Sins Past" was that footage of Spidey's first "battle" with Galactus, where he was holding onto his foot as he was walking, yelling "Hey! Hey! Hey hey hey!"

Oh, and I do agree about the majority of Byrne's FF run --- some of Byrne's best stuff. It was a funny scene, but it would've worked better if Galactus had been at full power, and everyone except for Thor, Dr. Strange, and Iron Man stayed out of the direct confrontation the same as Spidey did.


I always enjoyed when Spidey, while briefly "dead", decided to slug Thanos (weilding The Infinity Gauntlet at the time) just to spite him.


Oh, and Figgnuts, Bendis himself said pretty much the exact same thing in his Wizard interview.


-Jimmy

 

[Chris Wallace]

They've done that already somewhere in the '70's. The reason that he didn't get abducter in the Avenger's ranks is b-cuz he has too many feredal warrants or something to that effect.

It's "inducted". I read that story not too long ago. Has no real bearing on now, though.

 

[jaydawg]

This notion of spidey as a loner and rookie is simply foolish. This from the character that in canon, started at 15 and is currently 28. Thats 13 years of experience, in which he's had the most team-ups in marvel history. Hell, most of the time Marvel Team-up was around, it might have been called Spider-man team-up (and for a while it was). This guy has been at it since before the Avengers were even formed. Hell, the only modern heroes predating Spidey are the F4, Hulk and Antman. To say he's still learning is utter bull****. Ultimate Spidey is still learning, 616 is in his prime.

Still in awe of real heroes? I didnt know Spidey was Kyle Rayner. Hell, Spidey outclasses most of his peers when you think about he's great feats (he owned the X-men, beat down Galactus' former herald, beating Carnage ALONE and even KOed the Hulk). His rogues are no joke either. These days Electro could easily take on Superman (damn you Bendis!), since his earliest adventures hes been routinely battling the Sandman, Ock's intellegence is worthy of Iron Man or even Reed Richard's attention and the Goblin has put him through more crap than any villain ever has done to their respective hero.

Perphaps Spidey works better alone, but I just find it a nice change of pace. Like I said before, I just wish Bendis chose a better roster.

 

[JMT]

I'm gonna go with bad.
He never struck me as the type to be apart of a team.

 

[Chris Wallace]

This notion of spidey as a loner and rookie is simply foolish. This from the character that in canon, started at 15 and is currently 28. Thats 13 years of experience, in which he's had the most team-ups in marvel history. Hell, most of the time Marvel Team-up was around, it might have been called Spider-man team-up (and for a while it was). This guy has been at it since before the Avengers were even formed. Hell, the only modern heroes predating Spidey are the F4, Hulk and Antman. To say he's still learning is utter bull****. Ultimate Spidey is still learning, 616 is in his prime.

Still in awe of real heroes? I didnt know Spidey was Kyle Rayner. Hell, Spidey outclasses most of his peers when you think about he's great feats (he owned the X-men, beat down Galactus' former herald, beating Carnage ALONE and even KOed the Hulk). His rogues are no joke either. These days Electro could easily take on Superman (damn you Bendis!), since his earliest adventures hes been routinely battling the Sandman, Ock's intellegence is worthy of Iron Man or even Reed Richard's attention and the Goblin has put him through more crap than any villain ever has done to their respective hero.

Perphaps Spidey works better alone, but I just find it a nice change of pace. Like I said before, I just wish Bendis chose a better roster.

Loner? Yes. Rookie? No. He's oftne been treated like one, mainly by the more "hard-edged" heroes like Wolverine & DD. Now the vet Avengers still never cease to impress him, as shown when they came to help him against the Hydra knock-off Avengers.

 

[hulkamania85]

I like it. It is something new and interesting as opposed to Spider-Man always fighting throwaway villains we never see again.

 

[Spectre722]

at first i was a little unkeen on the whole idea but the rationale they gave to it was pretty good and amazing in its simplicity. cap goes "hows that been working for you? the whole solo hero thing?" it makes sense because spidey's had such a bad rap and now he's part of the avengers. plus i really like the rapport he's struck up with cage. bendis said in wizard that we'd see alot of good moments between the two of them.

my only problem is that bendis writes him too much like an immature horn-dog. Meanwhile Straczinsky writes him like a tragic downer.

 

[Jimmy-San]

I'm still unsure what scenes from New Avengers made Spidey look like the team's "comic releif". He isn't hogging all the attention in a team book, sure, but I dont see how he's been treated as inferior to anyone else on the team. He was certainly able to hurt The Wrecker, and hold him with his webbing, which he was unable to do in his 80's confrontation with The Wrecker, so if anything, Bendis is writing a good Spidey in effectiveness ... He also looked to be the "last man standing" of the heroes The Void was actively fighting in #9, and in #4, Cage couldn't break his webbing. In #1-3, he took a massive beating from like 30 or so villains piling on him, and was still standing and kept fighting after help arrived. So what is it?


Daredevil and The Sentry's comments boost Spidey's own strength of character, and we've seen his bravery. Seems like it's the fact that he's talking and joking all the time, without the deep inner monologues. Lots of writers had Spidey's text like that before, especially in team books without so many thought bubbles and with guest appearances, but IMO that doesn't make him "comic releif", since joking's part of his character.


"I am The Void! I am the bringer of death and destruction to this world!"

"Aw, man, I'm sorry, we weren't really looking for a bringer of destruction ... But leave an application and we'll let you know if there's an opening"


Best line of the entire series there.


-Jimmy

 

[moffball]

This guy has been at it since before the Avengers were even formed. Hell, the only modern heroes predating Spidey are the F4, Hulk and Antman.

Honest question: wasn't Cap around before Spidey?

 

[LobokDaikon]

Cap was, but the Avengers weren't. Cap was before everybody as he's from the Golden Age.

 

[Brainiac 8]

That's not the original portrayal of Spidey, Gragatron, and IMO that Byrne FF issue was RIDICULOUS! Spidey being like "I'm useless" while THE FRIGGIN' WASP helps out against Galactus??? That was beyond weak.


Spidey shouldn't be limited (and most writers, including Stan Lee, haven't limited him in this way) to fighting one power level or being in one set of situations.


He should range from fighting street levellers way below him in alloes, to guys like Ock and Venom who face him on a grander scale, to cosmic menaces. Of those, the middle option is the most at home for him. He should feel like he's playing in the junior leagues at the time whenever he fights Bullseye, but should know he's out of his league when tackling Magneto.


IMO, Spidey actually gets elevated in how interesting he is when he's facing things out of his element, which is why I beleive Stan Lee gave him such a varied rogue's gallery.


-Jimmy

I agree, some writer limit his abilities, especially his mind. He's a SCIENTIST, not quite up to Reed Richards standards, but they really need to utilize that in the Avengers. (by the way as long as it is written well, I think a change of pace in a team situation is fine for Spidey)

As far as his strength goes, they sometimes forget how strong spidey can be, Remember, he has fought one of the heralds of Galactus by himself once...and won. It took him a while and wore him down, but he beat him. So give Spidey some respect sometimes.

 

[Jimmy-San]

It should be noted Firelord opted againsta big city-destroying blast because he wanted to beat Spidey in "personal combat". Spidey also stunend The Silver Surfer with a wear-down, when SS was hindered by the Carnage symbiote.

He's actually beaten a good deal of folks at the level of power, but with speed and intelligence mainly, or webbing. I can give a list of references if need be, but this place doesn't really strike me as much of a "versus" type board.



I think Spidey has about as much a chance of beating someone in The Silver Surfer's class as, say, The Punisher has of beating Spidey himself. Of course, some characters have the numbers of other characters who are more powerful, as certain power-sets and mentalities match up better or worse with others ... I'm just speaking generally, however.



Anyway, you know, Spidey's really had the best one-liners of anyone in New Avengers.


-Jimmy

 

[i_play_SEGA]

i think its very cool.