Overrated Batman writers

[silentflute]

But media coverage does not equal quality. In fact, I'd say media coverage plays a large part in making something overrated.

Agreed.I'm not stating that it does, but in DKR's case the stars must have been aligned where the coverage was justified.


But what is the truth?

I was refering to those who state that YO was more about Gordon than Bruce.

 

[SpideyInATree]

When I say Miller is overrated as a Batman writer I'm not saying that all the stories he wrote were bad. Yeah, Year One and Dark Knight Returns are solid Batman stories and all around good but they are not the say all/end all of Batman stories.

Name some that have had equal impact on the character.



If you ask me Paul Pope did a better futuristic Batman story in Year 100.

Yeah ok.


Matt Wagner did a better early Batman with his solid stories in Monster Men and The Mad Monk.

You're joking, right?

Just because the guy wrote Year One, which was more focused on Commissioner Gordon than Batman, doesn't mean that he's the greatest Batman writer.

Year One was not more focused on Gordon.The focus was even on both characters, so it may have seemed Gordon got more time than Batman.Batman magz usually don't give any focus on anyone other than Batman, so the effect was multiplied.


So, yeah, he's overrated as a Batman writer because he isn't the God of Batman like the way a lot of Batman fans treat him.

He got the character the most recognition and respect (other than Kane , Robinson and Finger)

I love you so much that I want to plug your butt with my magic meat wand.

 

[silentflute]

I love you so much that I want to plug your butt with my magic meat wand.

It's good that you're in touch with you're feelings.

 

[CConn]

It's good that you're in touch with you're feelings.

The funniest thing is it looks like you said it.

 

[SpideyInATree]

The funniest thing is it looks like you said it.

Hahahaha! BRILLIANT~!

 

[CConn]

Personally Miller has his moments, but the majority of the time his work just makes me wonder just how much acid he took in his formative years.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, though.

I mean, most of Grant Morrison's **** seems like it's written by someone high on LSD and it's still as awesome as all ****ing get out.

 

[CConn]

His legendary Daredevil run, Sin City, Ronin, DKR, and 300 was ruined by his art?

Remember, Frank Miller was originally an artist. And a pretty good one too. Sure, he went off the handle with DKSA. But that's hardly a fair representation of his overall work.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

Why the f~ck are people here such tight a~ses? I did not mean you princess, so you can start breathing normal again. Relax, OK? It's like you never had an opposing view on this board.
Get it through your head I am not making the claim of "overrated Morrison" based solely on issue #663, I REALLY think the majority of his Batman contribution is OK-ish at best. Here:
- Arkham Asylum is hardly a Batman novel. Much like Batman Returns. All around fun to watch but not a Batman related movie by a long shot. Yet people throw it in your face while screaming THIS IS THE DEFINITE BATMAN AND JOKER; And I couldnt care less if YOU have not heard it on THESE boards, (repeating myself) if I had not witnessed it to a sickening degree I would not bring it up now WOULD I?
- Gothic felt like a Fritz Lang rip-off;
- Batman & Son I hated...
- Issue 663... well you know.

And I am telling you, it does not matter HOW MUCH he wrote. The point being people lick the sweat of his dick for all he has done, and I feel that it is undeserved, thus I have all the right to call Grant Morrison and overrated Batman writer. If you still do not get it, THAT is ignorance and plain stupidity at it's purest.

Hey man, relax a little. It's not healthy to get so worked up about comic books and people will make a target out of you real quick. Not to say you make good points, just that you might want to tone it down a bit.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Gordon want' characterized more than Batman.That's a myth.Folks seem to think that because Gordon got an equal amount of time as Batman.That needed to be there in order to make the story work.There were parallels between Gordon's idealism and Bruce's.The story would have been much weaker if we hadn't gotten the Gordon characterization.

In my opinion, Gordon was more characterized in Year One than Batman. But that doesn't matter because I really liked Year One and I liked that it was done mostly from Gordon's viewpoint with Batman fleshing out the story a bit more.

 

[CConn]

I think one of the thematic elements of Year One is that we see Batman through Gordon's eyes as much - if not more - than we see him through Bruce Wayne's eye. Which is probably why the book begins and end's with Gordon's narratives.

 

[trustyside-kick]

I don't view Year One as a Gordon story only because he is characterized. I mean, he is characterized really well also in TLH and DV so that isn't it.

What makes me view Year One as a Gordon story is because of when you look at the length of the story/book...he has equal or more panel time as Batman with his thoughts and dialogue being shown.

Also, to be honest, I simply don't see how Batman was characterized at all to begin with in Year One. That is another huge factor in me seeing Year One as more about Gordon. Maybe I should re-read it since its been a while but when I did read it last, I still felt that way; same as when I first read it.

--------------------

Side-note about YO: I was never impressed with Year One to be even more honest anyway. Could be because I did not read comics at the time of its release, but...even so there are a crapload of other stories I've read several years after its release and I love them.

So to me, that's when a story is good...you don't have to "be there to love it" if that's a good analogy. I just don't see how it characterizes Batman. The only reason I would ever tell someone new to the Batman franchise to read YO is because the fact that it's an origin story to an extant; not cause I liked it or was like "wow".

That's another reason I feel Miller is overrated as a Batman writer. Before I only mentioned my feelings towards his DKR.

 

[silentflute]

What makes me view Year One as a Gordon story is because of when you look at the length of the story/book...he has equal or more panel time as Batman with his thoughts and dialogue being shown.

[So,because he has equal time,it makes it strictly a Gordon story? [RI



Also, to be honest, I simply don't see how Batman was characterized at all to begin with in Year One. That is another huge factor in me seeing Year One as more about Gordon. Maybe I should re-read it since its been a while but when I did read it last, I still felt that way; same as when I first read it.

Please do reread.Chapter 1 is mostly narrated by Bruce,as well as chapter 3.That alone gives him half the book.

--------------------

Side-note about YO: I was never impressed with Year One to be even more honest anyway. Could be because I did not read comics at the time of its release, but...even so there are a crapload of other stories I've read several years after its release and I love them.

Kids these days,no respect for history.Or real mastery.

So to me, that's when a story is good...you don't have to "be there to love it" if that's a good analogy. I just don't see how it characterizes Batman.

Sounds like you're rading but not comprehending.

The only reason I would ever tell someone new to the Batman franchise to read YO is because the fact that it's an origin story to an extant; not cause I liked it or was like "wow".



That's another reason I feel Miller is overrated as a Batman writer. Before I only mentioned my feelings towards his DKR.

Do you understand that all these books that you 'loved' would NOT exist witout Year One and DKR?Until you come to terms with that,tis converstaion is pointless.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Was expecting those results from you to be honest; so not surprised. Don't take that as negative though...I just knew since all those talks in the Allstar Batman and Robin thread.

I got no arguement with you though since there isn't anything else to really say. We just have different opinions. I'll respect the two stories and all, but...I just don't set them "high up" like some other people including yourself. Nothing wrong with that, just different opinions.

 

[silentflute]

Spoken like a real champ Trusty.You may find it hard to beleive,but you are one of the folks I like around these parts.

 

[Ibn]

I've hated Greg Rucka for what he did to Talia, and Ra's and Bruce's relationship.

I don't like Grant Morrison's new Batman.

And I think Geoff Johns should stay as far the **** away from Batman as humanly possible. **** Johns.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Spoken like a real champ Trusty.You may find it hard to beleive,but you are one of the folks I like around these parts.

I saw this post the morning you posted it, so there isn't a real excuse as to why I haven't replied to it. Not sure you were expecting a reply, but I figured I should give one. I do take it as a compliment cause the memories of the original Allstar Batman and Robin thread will never die, and I remember all of the tension between everyone, especially you and the others.

So I've been trying to think of how to respond to such a compliment. Should I try to be witty, or funny, or should I try to try to play it "cool" and just respond with the slick sun glass wearing smilie...but this is what I came up with 3 weeks later:

Thanks.

 

[The Batman]

I've hated Greg Rucka for what he did to Talia, and Ra's and Bruce's relationship.

I don't like Grant Morrison's new Batman.

And I think Geoff Johns should stay as far the **** away from Batman as humanly possible. **** Johns.

A FREAKING MEN on the Greg Rucka thing. Talia is much better when she's not straight up good or bad...and Ras is much better when he's alive and not replaced by inferior new daughter characters who end up getting blown to smithereens

 

[itsthebatman]

A FREAKING MEN on the Greg Rucka thing. Talia is much better when she's not straight up good or bad...and Ras is much better when he's alive and not replaced by inferior new daughter characters who end up getting blown to smithereens

Ah, Ra's will return, mark my words. He's too good a character to stay dead. He's gone years before between appearnces - he's never been as ubiquitous as Joker.
Apart from that, what did you think of Death and the Maidens?

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

Sorry people, but I happen to think Jeph Loeb is BY FAR the most overrated Batman writer. He is the Bryan Singer of Batman writers.

I have to agree with the sentiment that Frank Miller is generally overrated as well. DKR is a masterpiece. But I honestly think Year One is easily the most overrated comic I've ever read. Seriously, it's way too short, hardly anything happens, and Batman is barely in it. The only good thing that really came out of it was that it served as inspiration for Batman Begins.

As for Grant Morrison, I honestly haven't read any of his Batman run. However, I loved Arkham Asylum, and I really loved his JLA run, so I'm interested to see his Batman stuff.

 

[Agentsands77]

I thought DEATH AND THE MAIDENS was one of the best Batman stories. Batman meeting his parents in the afterlife (okay, it's ambiguous...) was one of the best scenes in any Batman graphic novel. Ever.

And Ra's is deliciously ruthless.

 

[Da_Joka]

Wow, are you guys hating on The Long Halloween? Die.

 

[Cain]

Anybody who said Jeph Loeb gets a co-sign from me. In the 19 years that I've been reading Batman I've never seen one Bat writer get so overhyped in a small period of time (Miller's prime era was when I was a baby so...). I liked The Long Halloween it had some flaws but for the most part it was satisfactory however I don't think it's the be all end all that some people make it out to be either. I thought Dark Victory was alright but it was too predictable and convoluted for my tastes. For a long time and keep in mind that I grew up reading 80% of the 90's Batman stuff which is a pretty mixed bag no Bat arc pissed me off more than Hush did.

I don't want to single anybody out but from personal experience I've found that those who praise Loeb the most are people who just got into the character and ignored the rest of the character's history in comics. Matt Wagner should be getting all the props that Loeb has in his two Bat mini's he did a lot more with getting basic fundamentals of silver age and modern age Batman than Loeb did in one mini series.

 

[The Empire Ape]

I don't want to single anybody out but from personal experience I've found that those who praise Loeb the most are people who just got into the character and ignored the rest of the character's history in comics. Matt Wagner should be getting all the props that Loeb has in his two Bat mini's he did a lot more with getting basic fundamentals of silver age and modern age Batman than Loeb did in one mini series.

You are right. Most of his fans are those who watched Batman Begins and bought TLH afterwards.

 

[Agentsands77]

Jeph Loeb is overrated to a certain degree - he's not the saviour of graphic novels - but he is certainly good, and he's had a few moments of greatness along the way (THE LONG HALLOWEEN and SUPERMAN: FOR ALL SEASONS are truly fantastic pieces of work).

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

Jeph Loeb is overrated to a certain degree - he's not the saviour of graphic novels - but he is certainly good, and he's had a few moments of greatness along the way (THE LONG HALLOWEEN and SUPERMAN: FOR ALL SEASONS are truly fantastic pieces of work).

See, that's just the thing. The Long Halloween always gets put up there as a masterpiece. I just never thought it was that great. It was worth a read, sure, but didn't really offer anything special. It works as an origin story for Two-Face, but didn't really give anything else. It certainly didn't give us any real insight on any of the characters, Two-Face included, nor was the plot very interesting at all IMHO. As is the case with Hush, what we have is an long, drawn out, bland story in which nearly every villain in Gotham has a cameo, but has no dramatic purpose in the story whatsoever.

It does have a nice, somewhat down-to-earth noir feel to it, which isn't often found in comics anymore. That alone gives it some appeal, and Dent's transformation into Two-Face is interesting enough. But that was about it for me. So again, yeah, it was worth a read, but I've never once felt compelled to read it again (as opposed to books like DKR, Killing Joke, and No Man's Land, all of which I've read several times.)