The Dark Knight Rises Paralleles between Nolanverse and Burtonverse

[Frodo]

Wearing what could be the worst wig in modern cinematic history.

More cowbell !

 

[Brother Jack]

In both series Batman goes from wearing a more organic-looking suit in the first film to wearing a more obviously armored one in the sequel. In both cases this apart of the protagonist's character arc, in which he moves away from being a half-believed urban legend to being a mainstay of a city (if not uncomfortable).

 

[AnneFan]

Alright, I think this is pretty much everything.

"I'm Batman"
Driving Rachel to the batcave in BB.
Gassing the city.
Joker meeting the mob, and killing the man on the other end of the table.
Rachel resists The Joker, and Batman arrives to rescue her.
"Hit me!"
Joker falling from a building.
Batmobile separating itself (batmissile and batpod)
Batman becoming a wanted enemy of Gotham (explored in much greater depth in TDKR)
Masked ball sequence.

 

[Aesculapius]

A Batsuit so shiny and effeminate it probably was the inspiration for the entire Twilight Saga.

No wait. Haven't seen that in Nolan Batman. =p

 

[DACrowe]

-Bruce and Selina dancing in a masquerade ball and at least Bruce chooses not to wear a mask at either one.

-In the second film of each franchise, Batman destroys the Batmobile to make a smaller getaway vehicle.

-Batman Returns and Batman Begins both feature the police in a car chase with the Batmobile.

-The third of act of the first film in each series involves the villain planning to destroy Gotham City through a dangerous/deadly gas of some kind with a gimmick.

-The second act of each's first film features the intrepid love interest being cornered by the villain and rescued at the last minute by the hero who flies her away to the Batcave.

-The Joker's initial scenes in both Batman (1989) and The Dark Knight revolve around him killing major mobsters that Harvey Dent/the GCPD are targeting.

-At both the end of B'89 and TDK, the Joker is knocked by Batman off a skyscraper. In B'89 he dies and in TDK, in almost a clear repudiation of the previous film, Batman saves him.

-The Joker releases threatening videos on TV in both films he's featured, though they're far more creepy and much less comical in TDK.

-The Joker telling Batman to hit him while standing on a street while Batman approaches with a potentially lethal vehicle. In B'89 he misses by accident, in TDK he misses on purpose.

-Alfred chastises Bruce on his life choices in B'89 and in BB, and from the trailer, TDKR as well.

-The Joker and (I'm guessing) Catwoman steal the movies they are in.

I'm sure there are more.

 

[DKDetective]

The only real nods I believe Nolan was knowingly paying homage to, are the masquerade ball in TDKR & the Joker falling in TDK. Like MagnarTheGreat said, I believe Nolan was using the Joker falling as a direct comparison between the two versions, where one has a moral code he at least tries to adhere to, while the other, not so much.

And the masquerade ball is just classic psychological context, obviously showing how Wayne thinks of himself, and what he considers his true identity. Other than that, I think alot of the stuff happening were just comic idiosyncrasies of a character, like the Joker calling Batman out, battling him in public etc., that's just how he operates more than anything IMO. I mean, it's all right there from his very first appearance.

The Joker falling is also directly out of Batman # 1 which was clearly an influence on Goyer and the Nolans when writing TDK. I'm more inclined to say that the "Hit Me!" is an homage.

Also, am I alone on these boards in hating Batman Returns?

 

[Frodo]

The Joker falling is also directly out of Batman # 1 which was clearly an influence on Goyer and the Nolans when writing TDK. I'm more inclined to say that the "Hit Me!" is an homage.

Also, am I alone on these boards in hating Batman Returns?

No but I think that make's two of us.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Batman charging down Joker on/in a Bat-vehicle, on a large narrow street.

89: Batwing
TDK: Batpod

Plus, let's not forgot Joker shooting him down in 89

I did this a few months ago. It's the Joker/Batpod scene but with Elfman's score.

 

[SE7EN]

No but I think that make's two of us.

Well parts are absolutely fantastic while others are ridiculous. Better than the Schumacher ones.

 

[Frodo]

Well parts are absolutely fantastic while others are ridiculous. Better than the Schumacher ones.

Well, I liked BF far more then I ever did BR , but overall, I agree with you. Then again the Burton and Schumacer films looks quite poor in comparisson to the Nolan films and even the Animated Series films of the 90's and the 00's. They just seem so lazy and sloppy in terms of storytelling and characterization that its hard to take them seriously. B89 is still the best of the old francise imo, but even that has alot of problems.

 

[Fabian]

Batman has ears on his mask.

But seriously:i also found all those comparisons in TDK and B89 and now with TDKR with BR.
I dont know why,but Nolan def have enjoyed Burtons versions.

 

[zman]

glad the topic caught on!! not sure if it was mentionned, but TDKR and BR seem both to use the approach of: one villain ''attacks'' Batman's heart, the other, disfigured or weird looking, has a gang of thugs and causes mayhem throughout the city. Even the titles have somewhat of a structural similarity.

 

[バット人]

Spoiler

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Parallels between Nolanverse and Burtonverse?

Not being in Schumacher's Gotham City.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

But seriously - i think this is a great thread! Subscribing, and starting to think.

I always likened Batman to The Dark Knight and Batman Returns to Batman Begins. At least with the latter pair, you get this very artistic depiction of Gotham City (Gothic vs. Noir). Most of the parallels have already been noted here, but yes, there are bound to be more.

 

[croboy82]

I'd rather see this with the Schumacher verse

 

[Ibn]

Hate to bust up everybody's little fantasy about Christ Nolans "moral" Batman,
but the biggest similarity between the two franchises is that Batman is a VERY prolific murderer. The difference is, Burton's Batman is completely unapologetic. Whereas Nolan's is completely confused. BOTH were MASS murderers.

Keaton blew up a chemical plant with a ton of thugs in it.

Bale blew up a monastery PACKED with ninjas (and possibly prisoners) in it.


Keaton "assisted" in killing the Joker (i.e. the center of the movie).

Bale "assisted" in killing Two-Face (i.e. the center of the movie).


Keaton let somebody die.

Bale let somebody die.



Clooney is the only live action Batman (someone correct me if I'm wrong) NOT to kill ANYONE.

 

[Greens]

One thing many people seem to ignore is that Bale SQUASHED the driver of the garbage truck in TDK, unless the driver mysteriously disappeared from the driver's seat.

Although the ''hit me'' scenes and the scenes where the Joker falls from a high building look similar, I don't think they're meant as an homage.

The ''hit me'' situations were quite different. Jack's Joker had a gun to KILL Batman with. The only reason Jack survived is because the Batwing did the opposite of what Batman asked it to do.

Heath's Joker genuinely wanted Batman to hit him. This fits into the movie perfectly.

The fact both Jokers ended up on a high building is coincidental. It was the set-up to Jack's death, and Heath controlled the ferry boats from up there.

Chris Nolan isn't the person who would reference something JUST to please fanboys. Sure, he MAY have drawn inspiration from 1989's Batman, but it's not meant as an homage. I know this thread is meant to point out similarities, but some people think Nolan deliberately tweaks old Batman scenes.

I do know one thing that ALL Batman films share. They never explain the black around Batman's eyes. I know it's probably just make-up, but they've never shown Batman putting it on. Most of the times the bat signal shines, Batman is in a hurry, so where does he find the time to apply the make-up perfectly around his eyes? Burton avoided this issue in Batman Returns, by just removing the black make-up in the shot where Batman rips off the mask, even though the make-up was there 5 seconds ago.

 

[KalMart]

Hate to bust up everybody's little fantasy about Christ Nolans "moral" Batman,
but the biggest similarity between the two franchises is that Batman is a VERY prolific murderer. The difference is, Burton's Batman is completely unapologetic. Whereas Nolan's is completely confused. BOTH were MASS murderers.

Keaton blew up a chemical plant with a ton of thugs in it.

Bale blew up a monastery PACKED with ninjas (and possibly prisoners) in it.


Keaton "assisted" in killing the Joker (i.e. the center of the movie).

Bale "assisted" in killing Two-Face (i.e. the center of the movie).


Keaton let somebody die.

Bale let somebody die.



Clooney is the only live action Batman (someone correct me if I'm wrong) NOT to kill ANYONE.

He killed the franchise instead. Actually, the movie did more than him.

 

[Frodo]

Hate to bust up everybody's little fantasy about Christ Nolans "moral" Batman,
but the biggest similarity between the two franchises is that Batman is a VERY prolific murderer. The difference is, Burton's Batman is completely unapologetic. Whereas Nolan's is completely confused. BOTH were MASS murderers.

Keaton blew up a chemical plant with a ton of thugs in it.

Bale blew up a monastery PACKED with ninjas (and possibly prisoners) in it.


Keaton "assisted" in killing the Joker (i.e. the center of the movie).

Bale "assisted" in killing Two-Face (i.e. the center of the movie).


Keaton let somebody die.

Bale let somebody die.



Clooney is the only live action Batman (someone correct me if I'm wrong) NOT to kill ANYONE.

Its been a while since i've seen BB but I don't remember Bale's Bruce purposely blowing up the monistary. In fact he did save Ras (Ducard) from the explosion, and Ras made a point of that at the dinner party.

There's also a difference between not saving some one and killing them. The only comparrison I would concede is Harvey's death in TDK and BF.


The fact of the matter is, Burton and the writers of the final B89 didn't really consider the not killing thing essential to the film. It's that simple. We can question it was the right thing to do , but the fact of the matter it wasn't Burton focus, and I doubt he lost sleep over it.

Nolan took a different approach and decided to use the not killing credo as a major plot point to challange the protagonist. To be fair to Burton though, the two francises were made in different times and in different contexts .

You also have to very different directors with different sensibilities and storytelling styles. They both looked at the same source material and put their own spin on it , highlighting certain things and minimizing others.

 

[Ibn]

He killed the franchise instead. Actually, the movie did more than him.

...............Nope i cant dispute fact.

 

[Ibn]

Its been a while since i've seen BB but I don't remember Bale's Bruce purposely blowing up the monistary. In fact he did save Ras (Ducard) from the explosion, and Ras made a point of that at the dinner party.

There's also a difference between not saving some one and killing them. The only comparrison I would concede is Harvey's death in TDK and BF.


The fact of the matter is, Burton and the writers of the final B89 didn't really consider the not killing thing essential to the film. It's that simple. We can question it was the right thing to do , but the fact of the matter it wasn't Burton focus, and I doubt he lost sleep over it.

Nolan took a different approach and decided to use the not killing credo as a major plot point to challange the protagonist. To be fair to Burton though, the two francises were made in different times and in different contexts .

You also have to very different directors with different sensibilities and storytelling styles. They both looked at the same source material and put their own spin on it , highlighting certain things and minimizing others.

It was strange actually. Bale, in what I guess was supposed supposed to be in an attempt to distract everyone, threw the hot coal (with stunning accuracy for someone who didnt mean for things to transpire the way they did) that, conveniently landed in the perfect position to kill everyone.
It was wierd.

However, this Batman still has the habit of being completely oblivious to the fact that he, at the very least, is directly responsible for putting ALOT of people in some pretty crappy predicaments that completely contradicts the standards he set for himself. I think Bale and Keatons Batmen are actually equal in their reckless abandonment in regards to human life.

 

[Frodo]

It was strange actually. Bale, in what I guess was supposed supposed to be in an attempt to distract everyone, threw the hot coal (with stunning accuracy for someone who didnt mean for things to transpire the way they did) that, conveniently landed in the perfect position to kill everyone.
It was wierd.

However, this Batman still has the habit of being completely oblivious to the fact that he, at the very least, is directly responsible for putting ALOT of people in some pretty crappy predicaments that completely contradicts the standards he set for himself. I think Bale and Keatons Batmen are actually equal in their reckless abandonment in regards to human life.

I think Bale's Bruce is more reckless in terms of not understanding the consiquences of his actions , i.e. becoming Batman. In BB and TDK he is naive and he miscalculates which results plunging Gotham into madness and killing Rachel and Harvey. But , I think that's Nolan's point. Bruce's ideology is applied to the real world and it fails in alot of ways. He is on an impossible misson despite what Bruce's intentions are. He is quite flawed , and purposely so.

Keaton's Batman didn't have any standards because , it wasn't something the writers really cared about. Its not as if they had Keaton's Batman talking about standards and coming to the conclusion that he needs to kill. It wasn't an issue Burton dealt with.

 

[OutRiddled]

*Both Batman and The Dark Knight feature Joker and Harvey Dent

Michelle Pfieffer looks better in that scene. Anne Hathaway looks a little weird.

Jack Nicholson's Joker invented the 'pencil trick'.

 

[El Payaso]

And the masquerade ball is just classic psychological context, obviously showing how Wayne thinks of himself, and what he considers his true identity.

It is classic after 1992.

A Batsuit so shiny and effeminate it probably was the inspiration for the entire Twilight Saga.

No wait. Haven't seen that in Nolan Batman. =p

I have seen the clasps, the giant bat, the techno armour design and the annoying habit of keeping the cape behind the shoulders in Nolan mvoies though.

-Batman Returns and Batman Begins both feature the police in a car chase with the Batmobile.

Except that in BR Batman was trying NOT to smash the police cars!

Its been a while since i've seen BB but I don't remember Bale's Bruce purposely blowing up the monistary. In fact he did save Ras (Ducard) from the explosion, and Ras made a point of that at the dinner party.

I certainly remember that he threw the burning steelbar against the gunpowder sacks to create a diversion. Bad thing that the fake Ra's died as a consequence, dozens of ninjas were thrown away by the explosions and the burglar who was to be executed was tied up. At the very least he caused some fatalities and endangered dozens of lives.

He wasn't so much saving the burglar's life as he was avoiding being an executioner.

And yes, Bruce saved Ducard when he thought he was his friend. When he was the bad guy, he just left him to die, forgetting all that 'compassion' he claimed was what separate 'them' from the criminals.

There's also a difference between not saving some one and killing them. The only comparrison I would concede is Harvey's death in TDK and BF.

That's true. but again, Bruce himself stated that compassion was what separate him from criminals. And he forgot that in the end.

The fact of the matter is, Burton and the writers of the final B89 didn't really consider the not killing thing essential to the film. It's that simple. We can question it was the right thing to do , but the fact of the matter it wasn't Burton focus, and I doubt he lost sleep over it.

Nolan took a different approach and decided to use the not killing credo as a major plot point to challange the protagonist. To be fair to Burton though, the two francises were made in different times and in different contexts .

That's all true. Problem is that Buerton's Batman killed, period. Nolan's Batman said he wouldn't kill and yet he did all kind of things to endager other people's lives.

Jack Nicholson's Joker invented the 'pencil trick'.

Lol yes. Now I can get how a pointy feather can be stuck into someone's neck. But the hell I don't get how a pen can be stuck in a table.