Patty Jenkins & Gal Gadot reunite for ‘Cleopatra’

[moviefreak]

Isn't Cleopatra Greek? She certainly wasn't black or Arabic. Gal can look the part.

There was no real evidence as to Cleopatra's ethnicity. However, she's descent from the Ptolemies who were originally Macedonian Greek and in past Ptolemy I grew up at the court of Alexander’s father in Macedonia. Until the time of Cleopatra’s great-grandfather, the ethnic makeup was still pure Macedonian Greek. It's Cleopatra’s grandfather where uncertainties developed as he had two wives of traditional Macedonian background, but also at least one concubine of uncertain origin. Additionally, Cleopatra’s father also had several wives.

About 2500+ yeats ago the Greek historian Herodotos wrote that ethnicity was regularly turned to political ends. Cleopatra was proably a victim of this. While Gadot is fine, Cleopatra according to many account was not beautiful -- it was probably Roman propaganda about woman's wiles & asset manipulation relating to Octavian and Mark Antony's Civil War. Afterall, Cleopatra was a very powerful & intelligent politican, so she had everything to gain by making an ally of Julius Ceasar and later Mark Antony.

 

[Dark Raven]

The queen of the Nile:

 

[samsnee]

Are they gonna make her a warrior queen?

 

[Dark Raven]

Don't see why not. But if she is a warrior queen and has armour, is it going to look similar to WW's golden armour?

 

[samsnee]

So basically remake Wonder Woman with a different name?

 

[Dark Raven]

Gal Gadot as Cleopatra makes archaeological sense

 

[DKDetective]

There was no real evidence as to Cleopatra's ethnicity. However, she's descent from the Ptolemies who were originally Macedonian Greek and in past Ptolemy I grew up at the court of Alexander’s father in Macedonia. Until the time of Cleopatra’s great-grandfather, the ethnic makeup was still pure Macedonian Greek. It's Cleopatra’s grandfather where uncertainties developed as he had two wives of traditional Macedonian background, but also at least one concubine of uncertain origin. Additionally, Cleopatra’s father also had several wives.

About 2500+ yeats ago the Greek historian Herodotos wrote that ethnicity was regularly turned to political ends. Cleopatra was proably a victim of this. While Gadot is fine, Cleopatra according to many account was not beautiful -- it was probably Roman propaganda about woman's wiles & asset manipulation relating to Octavian and Mark Antony's Civil War. Afterall, Cleopatra was a very powerful & intelligent politican, so she had everything to gain by making an ally of Julius Ceasar and later Mark Antony.

I was going to come in here to say most of this, but I am glad to see many here are pretty well versed in history.

I think the outrage and allegations of whitewashing over this casting is ridiculous.

What knowledge we have of Cleopatra's racial background was that it was Greek and the Ptolemaic dynasty had a well-noted history of inbreeding. It may be that some Egyptian heritage may have entered the bloodline in the last couple generations before Cleopatra, but there is no serious evidence or consensus regarding that.

Criticising a film for casting a Middle Eastern woman of white descent to portray a Middle Eastern women of most likely white descent on the basis of some minor speculation that she may have had some North African heritage is ridiculous. It is only harmful to the credibility of criticism against actual white washing.

If people want to criticize the casting, they should criticise Gal's unrealistic Hollwood beauty versus the actual Cleopatra's more unique appearance and strong nose. I thought the HBO series Rome did an excellent job with casting Lyndsey Marshall. Her features seemed evocative of what little we know from the historic record, such as statues and coins and the like:

EDIT: This image is more accurate as it depicts Cleopatra dressed in Greek style and with her hair styled in bun as is her trademark on coins and statues from her lifetime:

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The real Cleopatra, for comparison.

 

[Frodo]

I don't know enough about Cleopatra's racial make up to really take one side or another on the whether Gadot accurately reflects the real Cleopatra..

I do think ,whoever was cast, was going to be caught in a damned if they did, damned if they don't situation.

With Gadot's casting , Jenkins and her are basically being accused of Hollyowood "Whitewashing".

But, had they cast WOC in the part, I can't help but think there would be another group of people complaining that the producers were " SJW's! being too PC!" in that casting.

 

[Fincher]

There isn't even agreement on which non-white race the actress is supposed to be. I've seen Egyptian, black, Arabic. It makes me want to start ranting that Cleopatra was a proud Inuit woman, and I will accept no substitute. She didn't have all those giant igloos built in her honor just so she could be played by a white woman.

 

[TheFuture]

There was no real evidence as to Cleopatra's ethnicity. However, she's descent from the Ptolemies who were originally Macedonian Greek and in past Ptolemy I grew up at the court of Alexander’s father in Macedonia. Until the time of Cleopatra’s great-grandfather, the ethnic makeup was still pure Macedonian Greek. It's Cleopatra’s grandfather where uncertainties developed as he had two wives of traditional Macedonian background, but also at least one concubine of uncertain origin. Additionally, Cleopatra’s father also had several wives.

About 2500+ yeats ago the Greek historian Herodotos wrote that ethnicity was regularly turned to political ends. Cleopatra was proably a victim of this. While Gadot is fine, Cleopatra according to many account was not beautiful -- it was probably Roman propaganda about woman's wiles & asset manipulation relating to Octavian and Mark Antony's Civil War. Afterall, Cleopatra was a very powerful & intelligent politican, so she had everything to gain by making an ally of Julius Ceasar and later Mark Antony.

I've no idea what direction Patty and Gadot will take, but it's entirely possible that they're aware that Cleopatra did not match any unrealistic beauty standard. It's entirely possible that Gal will undergoe a physical transformation for the role (much like Theron in Monster) but people haven't considered that, as they don't view Gadot as capable.

I think Jenkins is the key here, as I don't believe she'd sign up for some fluff piece that would have Gal on parade for 2 hours showing how beautiful she is. That's not what WW was about so I don't see why people think this will be a hollow venture.

On the whitewashing accusations, all the criticism can be conflated to "we don't know what ethnicity Cleopatra was ergo Gal Gadot is a terrible choice to play her" and "she's an Israeli Zionist!" It's the type of thinking you see on film twitter that irritates me that I even have to address it with an opinion.

 

[moviefreak]

If people want to criticize the casting, they should criticise Gal's unrealistic Hollwood beauty versus the actual Cleopatra's more unique appearance and strong nose. I thought the HBO series Rome did an excellent job with casting Lyndsey Marshall. Her features seemed evocative of what little we know from the historic record, such as statues and coins and the like:

I remember Lyndsey Marshall's role in Rome and thinking that's how I believe that Cleopatra would have looked --she looked a bit Greek. She looked like one of the Greek gal I used to date lol. Due to genetics most have nose that's straight from base to tip and a bump on the bridge of the nose, only a few were different & unique. I used to live with a couple --a Greek gal with classical face & deep olive / brown skin while the guy is blond and more normal, almost Anglo-Saxon in appearance. Matter of fact, I used to live & work with a lot of Greek people, most now back home.

I've no idea what direction Patty and Gadot will take, but it's entirely possible that they're aware that Cleopatra did not match any unrealistic beauty standard. It's entirely possible that Gal will undergoe a physical transformation for the role (much like Theron in Monster) but people haven't considered that, as they don't view Gadot as capable.

I think Jenkins is the key here, as I don't believe she'd sign up for some fluff piece that would have Gal on parade for 2 hours showing how beautiful she is. That's not what WW was about so I don't see why people think this will be a hollow venture.

On the whitewashing accusations, all the criticism can be conflated to "we don't know what ethnicity Cleopatra was ergo Gal Gadot is a terrible choice to play her" and "she's an Israeli Zionist!" It's the type of thinking you see on film twitter that irritates me that I even have to address it with an opinion.

I believe that Jenkin will do the film justice much more than the writer Laeta Kalogridis (Alita: Battle Angel, Terminator Genisys, Shutter Island, Alexander). I had hoped that she would have made Wonder Woman more substantial like her previous effort with 'Monster', maybe she will do it with Cleopatra. lol

 

[Dark Raven]

I don't want them to go entirely the Monster route and dull her down. I want to see Gal in the classic Cleopatra costume and hairstyle.

 

[antsman41]

Should have been Rami Malek, in drag.

 

[terry78]

The queen of the Nile:

That'll get you up in the morning.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

May it be a good peplum, it has been a long time since I saw one.

 

[Schlosser85]

Should have been Rami Malek, in drag.

Hey, he is of Egyptian extraction and a gender-bending performance as Cleopatra? Oscar #2, baby!

 

[terry78]

And he was a queen once.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Has there been another historical figure always get an upgrade look wise? From Liz Taylor to Monica Bellucci, and now Gal.

 

[Schlosser85]

Most real people portrayed in movies get an upgrade in the looks department, unless they’re someone considered a “villain”.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Most real people portrayed in movies get an upgrade in the looks department, unless they’re someone considered a “villain”.

Yes, I don't see Brad Pitt playing Hitler any time soon!

 

[Dark Raven]

Most real people portrayed in movies get an upgrade in the looks department, unless they’re someone considered a “villain”.

In Dragon: the Bruce Lee story, Bruce Lee became more muscular and his wife more attractive. And suddenly the way he hurt his back was in a fight instead of lifting weights improperly.

 

[Schlosser85]

The Walk cast JGL as Philippe Petit who was a pretty fugly dude.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Most real people portrayed in movies get an upgrade in the looks department, unless they’re someone considered a “villain”.

Real Life Julius Caesar:



Hollywood Julius Caesar:

 

[terry78]

It's like vladimir putin and james cromwell had a baby.