Perversion of Liberty

[Emrys]

So what.

It has no affect on me at all. Someone tells me about jesus, god, allah, vishnu or the rock from Africa that they worship, I simply say "good for you" and continue on with my life.

If they would stop at telling fine but they actually try to change society and that is something I cannot accept I don't wanna live in their idea of society. They day society changes into a christian or muslim one is the day I kill myself, period.

 

[maxwell's demon]

you're right if there wouldn't be christians around but since there are and since they can't stop trying to change society into something that adhers to their idiotic world view I eventually have to put up with it.

they aren't the only ones who do that, yknow.

 

[Emrys]

Then you are completely misinformed. You are no better than what you accuse christians and Islamic beliefs to be, in fact, from a non christian standpoint, I'd say you're worse. At least people of faith have a reason to believe and believe that they do so for good. You're obviously just acting on hate. You're the kind of person who goes on to kill people and smile while doing it.

under the right circumstances I can see me doing that, yes.

 

[twylight]

you're right if there wouldn't be christians around but since there are and since they can't stop trying to change society into something that adhers to their idiotic world view I eventually have to put up with it.

But all religions do that to a certain extent.

Even people who don't believe in a 'God' or 'Higher being' do that.

 

[Emrys]

they aren't the only ones who do that, yknow.

yep but their world view is the one I absolutely don't want to have any influence on my live.

 

[cass]

under the right circumstances I can see me doing that, yes.

You're far worse than any Christian or Muslim that I know then.

 

[Daisy]

yep but their world view is the one I absolutely don't want to have any influence on my live.

And what if your world view is the one they absolutely don't want to have any influence on their lives?

 

[Emrys]

But all religions do that to a certain extent.

Even people who don't believe in a 'God' or 'Higher being' do that.

jepp but with those I can find a common ground with muslims and christians I can't ... allthough I'm not sure about Hinduists, don't know that many but I have heard a few things I certainly don't like about them.

 

[maxwell's demon]

But all religions do that to a certain extent.

and not just religions. Danalys sent me this link a couple days ago about a scientist who, amongst other things, claimed proof that ther was no god.
this is what i said to him about it:

i have a hard time accepting any one singular point of view that claims to explain *all* phenomena, ESPECIALLY when, in order to do so, this is its rule numero uno:

1. OK, READY? OK...FIRST we just have to invalidate a few other views in order to make it work.





doesn't that seem both ironic and obfuscatory to you?

i saw this buddhist guy on some tv show the other day, and he said something that DID make sense to me. he said "the number and quality of things science can explain is actually very miniscule".

it might *seem* to explain a lot, but i find that whenever you get too caught up in one way of thinking, you wind up missing out on an awful lot.

At least thats how i feel right now.

 

[twylight]

jepp but with those I can find a common ground with muslims and christians I can't ... allthough I'm not sure about Hinduists, don't know that many but I have heard a few things I certainly don't like about them.

So in many way's, you're just as bias against them as they seem to be against the world. Correct?

 

[Daisy]

You're far worse than any Christian or Muslim that I know then.

You're fortunate then.

 

[Emrys]

And what if your world view is the one they absolutely don't want to have any influence on their lives?

well interesting dillema, that's why i like an unbiased secular system that allows both worldviews to co-exists but christians obviously don't like such a thing therefore i see no reasong to give them any courtsey

 

[Daisy]

jepp but with those I can find a common ground with muslims and christians I can't ... allthough I'm not sure about Hinduists, don't know that many but I have heard a few things I certainly don't like about them.

I suggest if you didn't paint all Christains and Muslims with the same brush, there would be many with whom you could find common ground.

 

[Emrys]

So in many way's, you're just as bias against them as they seem to be against the world. Correct?

correct, lets just say I was so irritaed by their actions that the bumped me right off the center to the extreme or tp put it differently if extremism is what is needed to fight the etremism of the enemy I'm ready to play the game.

It's nothing more than simple polarisation really, the line in the sand is drawn and I have chosen my side, that's all.

 

[Emrys]

I suggest if you didn't paint all Christains and Muslims with the same brush, there would be many with whom you could find common ground.

Ah you see, that's where the respective writting comes in again. i read the bible as well as the Quran and my impression is. Anyone who can remotely accept these teaching is a vile and evil being. The only christian or muslim I could find a common ground with is one who denouces the bible or the quran.

 

[Daisy]

well interesting dillema, that's why i like an unbiased secular system that allows both worldviews to co-exists but christians obviously don't like such a thing therefore i see no reasong to give them any courtsey

And what is an 'unbiased' secular system in your view.

There are many Christains who don't have a problem with the separation of church and state, but they start to get a bit nervous when it begins to feel that any public display of their faith is called into question.

Might I remind you that 'public' and 'state' are, in our system' not the same thing.

 

[Daisy]

Ah you see, that's where the respective writting comes in again. i read the bible as well as the Quran and my impression is. Anyone who can remotely accept these teaching is a vile and evil being. The only christian or muslim I could find a common ground with is one who denouces the bible or the quran.

I'd guess you didn't go into your readings with an open mind, that you saw what you wanted to see.

Why do they have to denounce their beliefs if they don't impose them on you?

 

[jaguarr]

And what is an 'unbiased' secular system in your view.

There are many Christains who don't have a problem with the separation of church and state, but they start to get a bit nervous when it begins to feel that any public display of their faith is called into question.

Might I remind you that 'public' and 'state' are, in our system' not the same thing.

That's improper use of a " ' ", young lady. Say twenty hail mary's and go rub your rosary a lot.

jag

 

[Emrys]

And what is an 'unbiased' secular system in your view.

There are many Christains who don't have a problem with the separation of church and state, but they start to get a bit nervous when it begins to feel that any public display of their faith is called into question.

Might I remind you that 'public' and 'state' are, in our system' not the same thing.

unbiased secular system, the law making process is not influenced by doctrines and ideologies, rational thought is the one and only meassurement by which to make laws.

Government places as well as judical places remain ideology free, no crosses, burquas, ten commandments etc.

other public places can display whatever they want to display.

That means though that one week you can have your bible rally but the next week there can be a pride parade on the same spot, period.

 

[Daisy]

That's improper use of a " ' ", young lady. Say twenty hail mary's and go rub your rosary a lot.

jag

Are you supposed to kneel and bow when you say Hail Marys?

And where exactly is my rosary?

 

[Emrys]

I'd guess you didn't go into your readings with an open mind, that you saw what you wanted to see.

Why do they have to denounce their beliefs if they don't impose them on you?

If they don't impose them on me there is no problem. No need for a common ground then. If they do however I'll not concede to bible morality that is absolutely out of question to me.

what I saw for example was Leviticus which to me is nothing more than a call for the murder of for example homosexuals and since some of my best friends are gay i consider that evil, especially since I know what motivates my friends, I can see true love when it's in front of me and if god according to the bible is unable to see and understand something even I as a mere mortal can clearly see I can only come to two conclusions, either that god is an idiot or that he's pure evil and denies people true love.

 

[Daisy]

unbiased secular system, the law making process is not influenced by doctrines and ideologies, rational thought is the one and only meassurement by which to make laws.

Government places as well as judical places remain ideology free, no crosses, burquas, ten commandments etc.

other public places can display whatever they want to display.

That means though that one week you can have your bible rally but the next week there can be a pride parade on the same spot, period.

See when you start saying no burqas, for example, you're interfering with the free exercise of religion, which shouldn't happen except when the government has a compelling reason - such as an taking an official governmental ID photo. Requiring someone to remove religious dress (which is not an imposition on others) simply because they enter a government building is not a compelling reason for the state to interfere with free exercise.

Beyond that, there are actually many Christians who would not have a problem with that.

 

[twylight]

correct, lets just say I was so irritaed by their actions that the bumped me right off the center to the extreme or tp put it differently if extremism is what is needed to fight the etremism of the enemy I'm ready to play the game.

Your moral highroad must not be used very much.

 

[jaguarr]

Are you supposed to kneel and bow when you say Hail Marys?

I'm not sure. I was never a Catholic, but we'll just say "yes".

And where exactly is my rosary?

You will be instructed on that when the time is appropriate.

jag

 

[Daisy]

If they don't impose them on me there is no problem. No need for a common ground then. If they do however I'll not concede to bible morality that is absolutely out of question to me.

what I saw for example was Leviticus which to me is nothing more than a call for the murder of for example homosexuals and since some of my best friends are gay i consider that evil, especially since I know what motivates my friends, I can see true love when it's in front of me and if god according to the bible is unable to see and understand something even I as a mere mortal can clearly see I can only come to two conclusions, either that god is an idiot or that he's pure evil and denies people true love.

You have such a narrow view of Christainity. None but the smallest minority of extremist groups would say that it's okay to murder homosexuals because Leviticus says so. Furthermore, there is debate among various Christain groups even, whether homosexuality is forbidden.