Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

Discussion in 'Thor: The Dark World' started by elizah72, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    See http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24749779&postcount=259

    (I had found links for Aug 29 and Aug 30, though I didn't include those in my post).

    Regarding length of time on location, I agree that it is somewhat correlated to length of scene in the movie. But scenes involving stunts and practical effects likely will take longer to shoot because of all the setup and precautions. So use of locations involving fight scenes (such as at Greenwich University) are going to be overrepresented compared to their screen time in the final film.
     
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  2. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    A very good point American Maid, and thanks to you and Elizah72 for letting me know about the Stonehenge. I am glad it will be appearing in the movie.

    Can't wait!

    Surfer
     
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  3. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    As I posted in the other thread, I just found a listing for a tv reporter at Stonehendge for "Thursday Mourning" directed by Alan Taylor so... that would certainly mean the scene takes place on modern day earth... naked guy or no. LOL
     
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  4. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    To be devil's advocate, it could be that they shoot more than one scene there, with one of the other scenes located elsewhere in the cosmos.

    But Earth definitely is represented!
     
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  5. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    this is true, I was sort of hoping it was something else, as you know. could be both if it's meant to be a portal that is the same as on another world. :) but it doesn't sound like they filmed much there so might be just Earth. LOL
     
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  6. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    True.
     
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  7. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    just responding back to this, yes. And think about it, there was a big battle scene involving Thor and Loki and probably Dark Elves in Iceland, so that would require some time for stunts, etc, and then they still went to at least 2 other places in Iceland in 6 days time? That'll be a short battle, certainly not nearly as long as Bourne or Greenwich.

    actually 4 locations in Iceland apparently... according to this article.

    http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/search/news/Default.asp?ew_0_a_id=394327
     
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  8. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    Just to refresh my memory, how do we know there is a battle in Iceland?
     
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  9. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    well the quote above up to 300 crew plus another 200 Icelanders, is an indicator, it was also reported on the site you linked in the What we know thread, and other places that there was large battle scene filmed in Iceland, involving Thor and Loki, and we know AAA and Chris Eccleston was there also. I seem to remember reading somewhere the location of that was in a valley that sounded like it might be representing Svartalfheim. Possibly that Dómadalur Valley mentioned above.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, I guess hte link does say that. Plus there are all those baddies there.

    Sorry, I'm not feeling well, and my brain seems to have shifted down a gear.

    What had prompted me to pose the question was that it sounded like they weren't saying there were 500 people in front of the camera, just 500 people involved in the filming at that location. So I thought maybe what's happening there was smaller in scope. But it does sound like there was indeed a battle filmed there.
     
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  11. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    at the moment I'm thinking Iceland battle might end up being a flashback scene with Thor and Loki (Warriors 3 and Sif probably too) vs Malekith and Algrim and the Dark Elves in the past. It seems a bit much for it to be Thor vs Malekith Algrim/Kurse AND Loki and again it seems likely to be a short scene based on the on location filming time.

    Yes it is similar to Odin vs The Frost Giants in Thor 1, but this could accomplish a few things at once.

    1) potentially show how Malekith got messed up and what he is vengeful about (which I think will need to be shown for the GA)
    2) potentially they could have Algrim fight Thor and be betrayed by Malekith as he is in the comics there, and then be returned years later all Kursed up. This may make more sense to do with the pacing for the movie, and explain why Algrim/Kurse doesn't appear to be present during the Greenwich fights.
    3) Show Thor and Loki fighting side by side as they had in the past, which at least some of us want to see more of and may be important to the story arcs to remind people about that.
    4) Potentially we could have Thor vs Algrim and Loki vs Malekith which again at least some of us want to see, and seeing Thor vs Malekith twice in one film is apt to be too repetitive.
    5) Potentially show us Svartalfheim

    As I posted in the regular news thread, I'm leaning towards the Stonehendge scene with the news reporter being a scene at the end where the reporter is reporting on whatever just happened, not unlike Avengers, and there is a scene where at some people are returning to the "old ways" and worshipping Thor. ;)
     
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  12. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if they would use the setting in Iceland for some establishing shots and do more of the fight on a soundstage.

    I agree with the points you enumerated, especially your comment about the pacing of the movie. Since Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje and Christopher Eccleston were both in Iceland, I agree it's likely it's a Thor-Algrim confrontation.

    I was going to comment on the idea of Algrim changing to Kurse off-camera, but in thinking about it some more, I think they still will show it. It's too important to the story, it would add to the overall spectacle, and would feel like a deus ex machina if someone is just explaining it later: "Oh, that used to be Algrim, but now it's Kurse. Srsly."

    The idea of people going to Stonehenge to worship Thor still strikes me as making them look ignorant (since it's two different belief systems). But, as CherokeeSam said, there are people these days who engage in religious syncretism. So maybe they would mash these two belief systems together.
     
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  13. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    very possibly. certainly if it contains everything that I have listed above then it would seem they should have more filming to do than just a couple days in Iceland working on it.

    oh they'll definitely have to show it. yes.
     
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  14. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    We were looking at the new poster for Thor (work in progress) in the news thread and someone mentioned the o in Thor looks like an eclipse. I wanted to repost this part here as I think I am onto something. It connects to my idea earlier that Malekith wants to make the Earth dark so that the Dark Elves can come out all the time (as mentioned before in the myths they cannot go out in the daylight, or turn to stone)

    could be that he causes a permanent eclipse on Earth to keep it in darkness. In the release from the studio made regarding filming at Butlers Wharf, when they filmed at the River Thames they wanted it at high tide.

    from CBM

    I think Greenwich Meantime/Meridian line could be connected to this idea as well (although this is all not admittedly an area I am particularly knowlegable about :( more of an arts than science girl :p )

    Edited to add:
    http://www.mreclipse.com/Special/SEprimer.html

    Okay so not so much the entire Earth in this scenario but a 100 mile wide area is where the eclipse would be experienced, there could be some piece to the puzzle we're still missing where he is making the Earth dark using the moon though. I do think I'm onto something. I suppose if he both stops the moon at solar eclipse and the stops the Earth from turning as well then that would leave the majority of the Earth permanently in darkness, although that would unleash a hell of a lot of other issues, but this is a fantasy movie after all! lol

    anybody have any other ideas in regards to this? It would seem a solar eclipse is involved judging by that poster.


    [​IMG]
     
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  15. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    If the Earth stops turning, you wouldn't have the majority of the Earth's surface plunged into darkness. You also wouldn't prevent the eclipse from being transitory--it's the Earth's orbit around the Sun (and the Moon's orbit about the Earth) that cause the eclipse to come to an end. All the bodies involved move out of alignment.

    To say that Malekith means to make the eclipse permanent is problematic. The movement of these bodies is a consequence of their relative positions and their gravitational pull on one another. As CherokeeSam pointed out, they did filming with the helicopter over the Thames on October 21, when the tide would be high. Tides are caused by the Moon's gravitational pull on the Earth. So on the one hand, we want to include the real effect of gravity, yet on the other hand, we want to override that through magic. It seems like we can't have it both ways. And science fiction/fantasy generally works better if they minimize the number of scientific laws they bend or break. That way, regular science can lend elements of verisimilitude to the story.

    If we're to have an eclipse, it seems more likely that it's just to give the Dark Elves freedom of movement, as you suggested earlier. It could also be a timing thing, as CherokeeSam suggested in the main spoilers thread. My one caution about that would be to be careful it doesn't wind up evoking the plot of The Dark Crystal: "When single shines the triple sun/What was sundered and undone/Shall be whole, the two made one/By Gelfling hand or else by none."

    Another idea with eclipses is to cause general panic on Earth. We know enough about the movements in our solar system that we can predict these eclipses well in advance (I have friends who are planning a trip to where the eclipse will be in 2017, for example). So if one were to occur that we did *not* predict, that might be more frighting for our modern society than they would have been back in the day.

    Isaac Asimov had a short story, "Nightfall", about a planet with six suns that generally does not know darkness. Once in a thousand years, night falls, and the people panic, riot, and set their civilization back, well, 1000 years. Scientists on the eve of sundown are trying to preserve enough scientific knowledge to allow future generations to break this cycle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightfall_(Asimov_short_story_and_novel)
    Hmmm, that has parallels to the Ragnarok. :yay:

    But it may be that there is no actual eclipse in this film, just metaphorical ones.
     
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  16. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    okay I can see that now, yes. (after second cup of coffee my brain is starting to function a bit better. LOL)

    I do think that the solar eclipse as pictured on the poster will be connected to what happens in the film and not just a metaphor, but it'll take a smarter person than me to figure out how. LOL

    Actually I pointed all of that out when I quoted the text from the studio's release in regards to the filming, before his reply. (knowing the moon and the tides are connected is why I quoted all of that). This again lends to the idea that the moon may have something to do with whatever Malekith's plans are.

    yes at least partially that I'm sure.

    true

    Hmmm. interesting... yes.
     
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  17. jaqua99

    jaqua99 ....I need a horse!

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    Well I'll be! I was just about to go on a nice long astronomical lesson..but you just took the words right out of my mouth :D ironic, since this is what we were talking about haha
     
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  18. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to steal your thunder, dude! :woot:

    (Actually, when I was writing it, I thought, "I sure hope I get this right 'cause I know Jon will be able to correct me!" lol)
     
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  19. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    I just knew if I wrote something wrong about it one or both of you would correct me! :oldrazz: It's okay, again, not a "science" girl, I have other talents and redeeming qualities though. ;)

    Perhaps you two geniuses could figure out for us then how the hell the moon, and tides, and an eclipse might figure into Malekith's plans? Hmmm?
     
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  20. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    Sticking this stuff in here for possible discussion so we don't keep bogging up the News thread with this ( I know some people don't care for my ramblings on possible plots but... whatever! :p )

    As translated by Bing...

    http://www.bestmovie.it/news/thor-the-dark-world-presentata-la-prima-clip-in-anteprima-mondiale/191652/
     
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  21. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    Okay so some thoughts on the promo trailer summaries....

    creatures that are pale with black elongated and sunken eyes: probably Dark Elves without the masks. We saw Malekith at Greenwich with some dots around his eyes indicating there may be some CGI to do with the eyes, and he was certainly pale (at least on one side...)

    The clash with the enemy army that is neither Earth nor Asgard is likely Thor vs Dark Elves on Svartalfheim, which was rumored to be filmed in Iceland.

    The voice over at the beginning of Thor becoming King as was discussed in the other thread, could mean that Odin dies, or it may not. It may simply be another coronation as was done at the beginning of Thor 1 (lets hope it doesn't get interrupted again! lol) . As I pointed out elsewhere, Odin/Anthony seems to have quite a bit to do in the film (scenes with different actors), despite him saying he wasn't in it much, so I doubt it's early on if he does die. However I DO think the fact that they released that in the promo indicates that it is early on that the coronation happens again, otherwise I think it's revealing too much in the trailer. But I could be wrong. :whatever:

    The promo description sounds like lots of angry, irrational, furious, "bag of cats" Loki... me thinks this is a bit of a mislead by the editors of what's to come, since showing anything else would again, be giving too much away, but we shall see. :oldrazz:

    Regarding him being wounded, the description above makes it sound like Thor wounds him physically, and he should be over the Hulk smashing, but I found an alternate review interpretation on one of those pages which would indicate we'd see him more "emotionally" wounded, which makes sense too.

    "Loki first wounded, imprisoned, undone, very far from the royalty that has so far stood out ... "

    :csad: (yeah, yeah... jaqua99 I know what you are thinkin' :oldrazz: )

    That page also had an alternate interpretation of this line...
    "In between, there are images of an epic battle on horseback, who seems to have left an epic cloak-and-dagger. "

    instead they have...

    "In between, we witness the filming of an epic battle, also on horseback, which seems to come from a swashbuckling epic. "

    I think of Cloak and Dagger and Swashbuckling as two different things, so... :huh: I think swashbuckling is more likely though I wouldn't mind some cloak and dagger too. Can somebody say, bring it on Fandral?! :word:


    "The rest of the images show glimpses of the great palaces of Asgard"

    as I mentioned elsewhere, palaces plural, and since I don't think they necessarily have a ton of palaces on Asgard, I suspect this actually refers to showing different palaces in the 9 realms, which is exciting if correct. :)

    PS: I want to see lots of worlds! :)

    "a black spaceship looks like a threat to Asgard." Well, I was plenty skeptical of the whole idea of having a spaceship crash into a (probably Odin's) palace (as tweeted by a stuntman a while back) but this certainly sounds like it may be true. Hm. and there was some reports that the Dark Elves crash land in Greenwich. But how many times can they crash land their ships in one film? :huh: Besides the fact that I know you guys have said that they are not particularly technically advanced, though I suppose they could have spent the years collecting and building up technology, if Malekith believed the day would come when Odin and the Asgardians may be weakened enough for them to take advantage.

    "we see the feverish fight scenes involve Thor and an enemy army, and who might remember the atmosphere of a game of Thrones or some war predicaments of the Star Wars Saga. Against the backdrop of a forest, in the middle of a clearing, among the dust, we in fact face off anthropomorphic creatures, but also a big "gorilla" krosan tusker: a rather alien fauna varies so, although not extreme in size."

    So this and the swashbuckling horseback fights certainly points to Bourne Woods, which we are quite certain now are not Dark Elves (unless they are in the armor, which seems very doubtful). I am still thinking the Vanir for the horseback horned helmet warriors, and as for the other creatures I was supposing there may be an attack on Nornheim, but it may instead be that the Vanir have added to their army these creatures and other nasty looking warriors to fight the Asgardians. Like with the Dark Elves, probably seeing that the Asgardians and Odin are at a weak point, and trying to take advantage of it. Or perhaps trying to take advantage of a new and unchallenged King Thor. ;)

    "[Jane] then alongside Thor lying on the ground, probably overwhelmed in a clash.”

    Now if they do yet another Thor "dies" and Jane rushes over to him crying and suddenly he gets up and is ok and saves the day AGAIN?! Well now that is repetitious and boring.
     
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  22. jaqua99

    jaqua99 ....I need a horse!

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    I like this. And it does seem likely with Odin off the throne, it may give the appearance of a weakened asgard, or hell, Oh oh, what if Odin hands the throne over to Thor, and at the end of the movie, Thor abandons it for midgard!? THAT could be a moral sacrifice, cause he is not only abandoning Agard, he is abandoning the realm he is ruling over. Then Odin ends back on throne at the end of the movie. After credit, surtur. 3rd movie, Odin gets killed in battle, and Thor HAS to take over the throne now, as Asgard could be destroyed with out his help. That is one way I could see it happening, him giving up his position as king to defend midgard.

    And as for the part I bolded, literally lol'd for a good 2 minutes.


    Here is something I have pondered, a possible goof. How many times has Thor been to Earth? is being there once really enough to determine that earth is "the world I love" (as he says when talking to Loki)

    Here is the goof I think. Thor says to fury, in my first time coming to earth, Loki's rage has followed me here, and now again.

    HOWEVER, in the first movie when they are trying to go to jotenheim, fandral says to thor "This isn't like a journey to earth, where you summon a little thunder and lightning and the mortals worship you as a god, this is jotenheim"

    Despite what Thor said in the avengers, it seems like he has indeed been on earth before, probably in more ancient times? Then why say he's only been there twice? Unless he was probably just talking about what fury could refer to.

    actually he HAD to have been on earth before. he EXISTS in the MCU. and in MCU, there are tales of him in ancient times, so what fandral said, and the fact that some norse people worship him, he MUST have been on earth multiple times before Thor 1, and the avengers, right?
     
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  23. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    possible, i could go along with that. I think there is clearly too much going on with this other (non Dark Elf) army as well as the Dark Elves, and whatever happens with Jane, and with Loki to have the Surtur/Ragnarok thing happen in this one too.

    As AM said a while back, the dark elves are apparently crappy pilots... maybe they learned to fly the same place Jane learned to drive? :p


    yup. that would appear to be a goof all right. :csad: He's definitely been here before that, he may have only been referring to what Fury knows I suppose. But then if Thor is in Earth's Norse mythology then Fury and Coulson certainly should know that (BW knew it) , and then one of them should have said, what about these stories?!?! So... yeah... goof. Bad Joss Whedon! Bad!
     
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  24. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    Me too!!

    Yeah, I don't think it's as it appears for that very reason. Now, maybe Jane is grieviously wounded (a lot more likely, given the circumstances), and they get to turn that scene on its head ("It's over"/"It's not over"), or maybe this is just some intermediate blast, everyone is fine, and they'll get up and run to the next thing in a minute.



    He would not have legitimacy to rule Asgard in that event. The Asgardians would not accept him as king if he abandoned them once. imo.

    hahahaha You guys are too quick for me. Actually, I was going to say in response, "How many times can a woman hit a man with her car?" (Choose your words wisely, Jon Aqua.)

    Yes, absolutely. It's a goof. Whedon may have been trying to tie the movies together with that line.

    But Thor also says, "In my youth, I courted war." In his youth, which was one year prior :oldrazz:

    Actually, the first time I saw Thor1, at the scene where Thor first kisses her hand (in town, when Selvig has talked her out of helping him), my first thought was to shake Jane's shoulders and say, "Jane! Wake up! This is not the first time he's been to Earth!" :yay:

    But the whole premise is that these Asgardians really have been to Earth, and that was the foundation for these stories. Another goof, from Thor1, is that Thor and Loki are supposed to have been born in the mid-900's CE. But the Norse myths go back to the first century CE at least. So how could the Midgardians know about Thor (and his cohort) before Thor was born? Another oops.
     
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  25. elizah72

    elizah72 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding that, I have wondered before if what will be revealed is previous incarnations of Thor etc have been to Earth, (due to the whole Ragnarok thing), setting up the mythology in the MCU, but not necessarily THESE versions (or not so much). Based on Thor's behavior, if he's been to Earth it probably wasn't recently, due to his lack of savvy. But Loki on the other hand, I could see having been to Earth MANY times in recent past.
     
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