Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

[American Maid]

I feel like 90% sure that Nornheim will be involved, with our without Karnilla being shown (or played by Krige)

Maybe Karnilla is his mom

 

[elizah72]

Maybe Karnilla is his mom

LOL!!! I left myself wide open for that one. I admit it.

 

[jaqua99]

I just found something of interest, in regards to a question I posted a little while ago...





Just found this...



source: http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/k/karnilla.htm

not that I think Balder will be in this, but I do think Nornheim is a strong possibility due to the mix of characters in those Bourne Woods scenes, and Karnilla could just be a small part (maybe Alice Krige)

i personally still think balder is dead

 

[elizah72]

i personally still think balder is dead

either that or never existed in MCU. (sorry Balder fans! )

Another thing regarding Tyr. I just realized that he's supposed to be Frigga's son, (like Balder) but the actor playing him is 9 years older than Renee! So I guess he definitely won't be her son! LOL

Incidentally, Tom is 2 year olders than Chris. LOL

 

[Vartha]

i personally still think balder is dead

I don't. I think he's hidden away like a relic because maybe he DOES control a power that can destroy the universe and it can't be roved from him.

 

[elizah72]

LOL okay here we go, opening to Thor 2, and it's straight from the comics.

 

[American Maid]

^LOL! "*He* started it!"

 

[elizah72]

^LOL! "*He* started it!"

I know, typical brothers... "Did not! Daaaaaaad! Loki's lying again!"

and then Frigga is all...

(not my image, obviously, but )

and then this happens...

[YT]-cPyvPgIp4w[/YT]

 

[American Maid]

and then this happens...

HA! That's really funny.

 

[elizah72]

Loki: "Hey... are you awake?"

Thor: "Yeah."

Loki: "I hate your guts"

Thor: "As soon as your eyes shut I'm going to punch you square in the face."

ROFL

I suppose we should get back to business. LOL

What you guys are talking about in the other thread with the Einstein-Rosen bridges/wormhole research is interesting and that seems very likely she end up in danger and possibly kidnaped ala Lorelei in the comics, due to that, not just being Thor's sorta girlfriend. I can see where he'd be very interested in gaining new ways to get his Elf army onto other worlds to conquer.

Question, Erik appeared to be experiencing some mind control/connection with Loki at the end of Thor (when Loki spoke through him), and of course he seemed a little wacked out by the power of the scepter and/or Tesseract. How do you think that might play into how he acts in Thor 2?

 

[jaqua99]

Something worth pondering, but why do you think the MCU does opposites?

For example, Thanos and the IG, in the comics, it's on his left hand. Though in the MCU it seems like it will be on the right. Malekith's left side of his face is dark in the mcu, and in the comics, its dark on the right. Hmm, there have been a few others I noticed as well, but have you guys noticed this?

And Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! I expect the hype to be dead today!

 

[elizah72]

Something worth pondering, but why do you think the MCU does opposites?

For example, Thanos and the IG, in the comics, it's on his left hand. Though in the MCU it seems like it will be on the right. Malekith's left side of his face is dark in the mcu, and in the comics, its dark on the right. Hmm, there have been a few others I noticed as well, but have you guys noticed this?

And Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! I expect the hype to be dead today!

I did notice Malekith, yes. I think I've seen Odin's eye patch on the opposite side sometimes in the comics too, but I could be wrong about that. I dont know.

Yes, the picture of the IG from the movie looks like a right handed glove so, you are right there.

here is an article with pictures of some of the items in Odin's vault, including the IG for anyone interested.

http://screenrant.com/thor-movie-odins-vault-artifacts-rob-115931/all/1/

In here, at least one of the items is tied to Dr. Strange which Stan Lee recently confirmed will have his own movie (2016 according to IMDB) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1211837 . So that item could certainly be mentioned or tie in with Thor 2 or Thor 3, to foreshadow that. I know a Dr. Strange cameo was rumored for Thor 2, was there ever an actual confirmation of that? I know there's not been any word on casting.

And Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

 

[elizah72]

And actually, regarding the Dr. Strange item listed in the link above: The Orb of Agamotto

On at least one occasion, it has been used to open a dimensional portal, to the realm of Agamotto.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orb_of_Agamotto

so that could be what Odin is using to get Thor back to Earth in Avengers and they may show that in Thor 2 possibly.

 

[American Maid]

What you guys are talking about in the other thread with the Einstein-Rosen bridges/wormhole research is interesting and that seems very likely she end up in danger and possibly kidnaped ala Lorelei in the comics, due to that, not just being Thor's sorta girlfriend. I can see where he'd be very interested in gaining new ways to get his Elf army onto other worlds to conquer.

Question, Erik appeared to be experiencing some mind control/connection with Loki at the end of Thor (when Loki spoke through him), and of course he seemed a little wacked out by the power of the scepter and/or Tesseract. How do you think that might play into how he acts in Thor 2?

Elizah, your first paragraph made me think of a variant of your earlier plot line. Suppose Malekith (or somebody) swaps spirits between Jane and someone (maybe some dark elf). So then Jane, the body, is possessed by a spirit associated with the dark elves and Jane, the spirit, is taken to Svartalfheim via the other body. Maybe they think they could more easily get her to build a portal that way. What doesn't fit is why they would take Jane, the body, on the journey to the Dark World. Just playing with ideas here

As for Erik, I have been thinking for a while that he is not yet free of the Tesseract. So that's why I wondered a while back whether they might work the Tesseract sentience into a part for Alice Krige. I dunno, maybe the Tesseract changes Kurse, channeling through Erik (in a similar way that Loki worked through Erik at the end of Thor1). Maybe the Tesseract, through Selvig, is able to intervene and do the exorcism on Jane (if she is just possessed, or swap her back if it's like in my above paragraph). Maybe the Tesseract is able to provide a power boost to one of the portals they are trying to open somewhere along the line.

 

[elizah72]

I believe Shield probably has Loki's scepter which is powered by the Tesseract, (since we didnt see it return with Thor) and I'm thinking if Jane and Erik have access to the scepter for their experiments with opening portals, then that could be how the Tesseract's "personality" and power gets transferred to Jane, to then become the Beyonder character and change Kurse. I really feel the "she" references Erik makes in Avengers are hinting that there is a sentient being in there. A scenario like this would seem to tie everything in nicely, I think. When the possession happens, don't know but I would guess late in the film, just before transforming Kurse, since otherwise you dont get much if any Thor-Jane time.

And on Thor taking Jane to the Dark world, well see this is where I think that guy is confusing some things he may know, and trying to connect the dots and not quite getting it right (guessing just like the rest of us ). For instance, the "Dark world" is not Valhalla. I seriously dont think they are going to Nifleheim/Hel to recruit warriors. They are definitely going to Valhalla if that part is remotely true. And in that case Thor may not feel it is dangerous for Jane to go there (but Hel certainly would be)... since this is where the good guys go to die. So that is one thing I am pretty sure that guy is confusing/guessing about. (Like maybe he has a vague idea about some aspects of the story, but doesn't know the myths or comics well enough to make a better guess)

 

[American Maid]

I believe Shield probably has Loki's scepter which is powered by the Tesseract, (since we didnt see it return with Thor) and I'm thinking if Jane and Erik have access to the scepter for their experiments with opening portals, then that could be how the Tesseract's "personality" and power gets transferred to Jane, to then become the Beyonder character and change Kurse. I really feel the "she" references Erik makes in Avengers are hinting that there is a sentient being in there. A scenario like this would seem to tie everything in nicely, I think. When the possession happens, don't know but I would guess late in the film, just before transforming Kurse, since otherwise you dont get much if any Thor-Jane time.

And on Thor taking Jane to the Dark world, well see this is where I think that guy is confusing some things he may know, and trying to connect the dots and not quite getting it right (guessing just like the rest of us ). For instance, the "Dark world" is not Valhalla. I seriously dont think they are going to Nifleheim/Hel to recruit warriors. They are definitely going to Valhalla if that part is remotely true. And in that case Thor may not feel it is dangerous for Jane to go there (but Hel certainly would be)... since this is where the good guys go to die. So that is one thing I am pretty sure that guy is confusing/guessing about. (Like maybe he has a vague idea about some aspects of the story, but doesn't know the myths or comics well enough to make a better guess)

I agree; I think the Tesseract actually is sentient. One of the Marvel pages I read said that sentient cubes tend to take on the personalities of their wielders. But I can also see the Tesseract being a little bit more neutral, more removed (ie, like the Beyonder).

On the other hand, Lawden said this is a spirit affiliated with the Dark Elves, and the Tesseract would not be that.

You're right about the need for Thor-Jane time, although I still tend to think that any leaks sanctioned by the studio would be of elements early in the film. (And that's the problem with the idea I put forward above--how to get in Thor-Jane time?)

And, BTW, by "Dark World" I meant Valhalla--the part where they recruit the army.

 

[cherokeesam]

What you guys are talking about in the other thread with the Einstein-Rosen bridges/wormhole research is interesting and that seems very likely she end up in danger and possibly kidnaped ala Lorelei in the comics, due to that, not just being Thor's sorta girlfriend. I can see where he'd be very interested in gaining new ways to get his Elf army onto other worlds to conquer.

I like this idea, because it gives Malekith a bigger reason to kidnap Jane other than the standard "use the hero's girlfriend as bait" schtick that Lorelei was part of. If Jane/Selvig have figured out how to open portals, there's a *lot* of people on *lots* of different worlds who will suddenly be interested in these scientists, not least of which is Malekith the Accursed.

Question, Erik appeared to be experiencing some mind control/connection with Loki at the end of Thor (when Loki spoke through him), and of course he seemed a little wacked out by the power of the scepter and/or Tesseract. How do you think that might play into how he acts in Thor 2?

I think Selvig should have some good scenes in this movie. On the one hand, he's going to have to deal with the guilt of "turning to the dark side," albeit unwillingly, and should experience the same kind of soul-searching that Hawkeye did after he was de-programmed; and on the other, he's probably been blessed/cursed by the Cube with a ****load of esoteric knowledge of things, places, people, events, technology, and physical laws that are far beyond human understanding.

 

[elizah72]

I agree; I think the Tesseract actually is sentient. One of the Marvel pages I read said that sentient cubes tend to take on the personalities of their wielders. But I can also see the Tesseract being a little bit more neutral, more removed (ie, like the Beyonder).

As I posted a while back the Beyonder, Cosmic Cube/Tesseract, and a female character called Kosmos are linked in the comics. So a variation on that for the MCU, and using Jane as the host (or Selvig I suppose) is plausible, especially with Loki's scepter, which is linked to the Tesseract/Cosmic Cube still in Shield's possession, and Jane and Selvig working for Shield.

On the other hand, Lawden said this is a spirit affiliated with the Dark Elves, and the Tesseract would not be that.

again, here is where I think he might be guessing. sorry to say. He assumes it's to do with the Dark Elves because as far as he knows those are the major villains in the piece.

You're right about the need for Thor-Jane time, although I still tend to think that any leaks sanctioned by the studio would be of elements early in the film. (And that's the problem with the idea I put forward above--how to get in Thor-Jane time?)

here's an idea, maybe it is early on that this effects/attacks her but she's still herself for a time and it sort of grows and grows more in control of her over the course of the film? Instead of instantaneous. That could work. That's the only way I could make it work if it happens early in the film. Could give Thor reason to go down and get her and bring her back to see if Odin can help her, and maybe that's what Odin is busy with part of the time.

 

[American Maid]

As I posted a while back the Beyonder, Cosmic Cube/Tesseract, and a female character called Kosmos are linked in the comics. So a variation on that for the MCU, and using Jane as the host (or Selvig I suppose) is plausible, especially with Loki's scepter, which is linked to the Tesseract/Cosmic Cube still in Shield's possession, and Jane and Selvig working for Shield.

Oh yeah, you did say that! I'll have to read up on her when I get back home.

I think maybe Jane and Selvig are no longer working for S.H.I.E.L.D. I think they are working for the university.

I recognize that makes it less likely that they have access to teh scepter. But it seems like both those characters would have reasons to resent S.H.I.E.L.D. and no longer want to be so closely associated with them.

here's an idea, maybe it is early on that this effects/attacks her but she's still herself for a time and it sort of grows and grows more in control of her over the course of the film? Instead of instantaneous. That could work. That's the only way I could make it work if it happens early in the film. Could give Thor reason to go down and get her and bring her back to see if Odin can help her, and maybe that's what Odin is busy with part of the time.

That's a very interesting idea. Being with Odin would give the scene(s) Hopkins mentioned. On the other hand, that's not much Thor-Jane time.

Maybe they both (all) know she is possessed, and she struggles to maintain control over the course of the film. Maybe hanging over Jane's and Thor's heads is what will have to happen if Jane is not able to maintain control.

 

[elizah72]

Oh yeah, you did say that! I'll have to read up on her when I get back home.

I think maybe Jane and Selvig are no longer working for S.H.I.E.L.D. I think they are working for the university.

I recognize that makes it less likely that they have access to teh scepter. But it seems like both those characters would have reasons to resent S.H.I.E.L.D. and no longer want to be so closely associated with them.

This is Nick Fury and Shield. They may not have a choice.

That's a very interesting idea. Being with Odin would give the scene(s) Hopkins mentioned. On the other hand, that's not much Thor-Jane time.

Maybe they both (all) know she is possessed, and she struggles to maintain control over the course of the film. Maybe hanging over Jane's and Thor's heads is what will have to happen if Jane is not able to maintain control.

of course this is all assuming that she does get possessed at all, and I havent seen anything in the pictures and vids so far to indicate that she is.

 

[elizah72]

I thought I'd put this reply over here because I think there are some possible plot points to be explored more in this.

Regarding the stuff about Time travel in the regular news/spoiler thread. I'm rather afraid that they really have enough to explore without bringing time travel into it. It's all very interesting but I'm thinking too it might be too much/too confusing for the General Audience to grasp along with everything else about the 9 realms to explore and understand. (as I'm having trouble grasping some of what is being said there about time travel. LOL... I guess it's for smarter people than me to figure out how to work all that out into a script. )

in regards to some video I remember seeing with the Dark Elves surrounding Thor, but they all had robes with hoods on:

I believe those are dark elves, because I remember last week i saw a video of hemsworth and eccleston rehearsing, and eccleston was wearing those dark robes and hood.

the heads look like they might be yes, I just questioned why the robes and then no robes. I dont think they'd have robes on to hide the costumes and then show them the next day.

Interesting that the Meridian Line is playing a part in this.

here's something, that goes along with the Meridian Line and the 2 worlds in one space bit and the Dark Elves wanting to "plunge the universe back into darkness", as well as those robes I saw on them.

I have found reference in the Norse Mythology at least that the Dark Elves cannot come to the surface in daylight because they will turn to Stone. Now yes, I know, they've been fighting in daylight here, however, there was several pictures in the spoiler thread of Malekith with his arms in the air standing on a walkway, and it was sort of dusk shots, with a large light behind him. My thought is some of them arrive in the robes, and Malekith works his magic to start to turn Earth dark, changes the sun or the way it hits the Earth or whatever (again smarter and cleverer people than me will figure that out ) and so Earth is changed along that Meridian line to make two worlds, one in the light and one in the dark, and maybe it's ongoing. So when Thor shows up he's confronted by the elves in the robes, but then later the light has changed and more arrive via the spaceship, and the elves are able to run around without the robes. As for the fighting scenes we've seen filmed, I'm assuming end result with be there is still some light but a CGI effect changes the light in the process of showing the two different worlds so that more elves can come in and they can walk around without their robes to protect them. All very vague I know but I think could work. And actually maybe that's how Malekith gets that way on the one side, in the process of doing that he has to go out in the sun and it partially changes him to stone or burns him. This idea could also go along I think with the videos shot of people watching something come over the water and then running and looking up. That bothered me because I was afraid they may have more aliens on flying machines, but it could be instead the world turning dark and people being terrified... maybe....

This is what I was referencing there, hiding behind a spoiler button only because the pictures are quite large.

Spoiler

Different angles & rehearsal of the Malekith solo scene
[YT]857p3oYXuAk[/YT]
[YT]3OL1R3M0cWk[/YT]
[YT]MN8ESD5yXGE[/YT]

 

[cherokeesam]

One thing to keep in mind regarding darkness on film: a ton of scenes in movies that are supposed to be set at night/in darkness are actually filmed in broad daylight, just with a dark filter on the camera lens. The end result always simulates a moonlit night quite nicely. Hollywood has been doing this since the beginning of filmdom.

 

[elizah72]

One thing to keep in mind regarding darkness on film: a ton of scenes in movies that are supposed to be set at night/in darkness are actually filmed in broad daylight, just with a dark filter on the camera lens. The end result always simulates a moonlit night quite nicely. Hollywood has been doing this since the beginning of filmdom.

Yes. Thank you for that.

 

[American Maid]

LokiDionysos has been posting some very interesting ideas about what could happen in Phase 2 in general and Thor 2 in particular. I thought I would make a post here collecting links to all of those posts for easy reference.

I'll also put some tags here in case this thread gets long, burying this post, and we want to quickly find this post on a "thread search": LokiDionysos TimeTravel KangConqueror

Re: What is Jane's gadget? What are Einstein-Rosen bridges? How is Jane woven into the story? http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24718713&postcount=454

Who is The Other? How does Ant Man fit in? What role do Jane & Co play in Thor2? What's on offer for Thor3? http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24720567&postcount=458

What is the nature of magic in the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Who are the Masters of Evil? How does the Mandarin figure in? What is the nature of some of the Nine Realms? Thor's choices and the roles of the supporting characters in Thor2. What is the nature of the malevolent spirit possessing Jane? Plot outline for Thor2. http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24729117&postcount=473

More on what is the nature of magic in the MCU: http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24738801&postcount=517

What dimensions do the various realms occupy? What are the origins of the conflict between Hela and Surtur on the one side and Odin on the other? Why would Hela and Surtur need Jane and Darcy anyway? http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24740185&postcount=526

 

[Rock Sexton]

I seriously doubt Feige will take the MCU in the time travel route. It represents too many inconsistencies/difficulty in story-telling ..... and as we've seen by all the movies thus far they try to keep things simplistic.