Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

[elizah72]

As Jaqua said, I didn't mean to imply that people who were fans of *just* the films weren't "true" fans; but that it's great to see people who are fans of the film start delving into the comics to become "true" fans of the comic book canon as well.

Not to worry....I got a minor in Comparative Mythology back in '87 . I've studied every mythos out there, pretty much --- Norse, Greek, Celtic, Mesopotamian, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Egyptian, Mayan, Aztec, even plenty of tribal religions, including my own tribe and other Native Americans, Africans, Vodoun, etc.

S'okay. Glad we straightened that out. t:

Okay this guy is interesting in a creepy psychotic way AM. He is Odin's brother in a storyline which I was at one point considering they may do something similar with Tyr in the movie, AND ties in with the World Serpent.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Cul_Borson_(Earth-616)

I still think that Odin dealing with an *ahem* problematic brother in his past, to parallel the Thor-Loki story, could be really interesting backstory at least for the MCU.

 

[American Maid]

Not to worry....I got a minor in Comparative Mythology back in '87 . I've studied every mythos out there, pretty much --- Norse, Greek, Celtic, Mesopotamian, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Egyptian, Mayan, Aztec, even plenty of tribal religions, including my own tribe and other Native Americans, Africans, Vodoun, etc.

Wow, how interesting!! I would love to know more about all these mythologies, how they are similar, how they are different, but of course there is so much to do and each day is short.

Since you have this knowledge, I have a question for you. It basically boils down to, "what bones does the story's skeleton need (in T:TDW)?"

I'm sure we're all familiar with Tom Hiddleston's letter to _The Guardian_ in defense of the superhero film (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2012/apr/19/avengers-assemble-tom-hiddleston-superhero). In it, he says:

uperhero films offer a shared, faithless, modern mythology, through which these truths can be explored. In our increasingly secular society, with so many disparate gods and different faiths, superhero films present a unique canvas upon which our shared hopes, dreams and apocalyptic nightmares can be projected and played out.

I largely agree with Hiddleston, though not having had a survey of world myths like you, for example, have had, it's hard for me to say how universal such a film can be.

But what mythic elements make Hiddleston's statement true (to the extent that it is)? And what mythic elements should the story of Thor: The Dark World have to make it successful as a story and as modern mythology? (especially since it is a sequel)

Can such modern mythology be universal?

 

[American Maid]

Okay this guy is interesting in a creepy psychotic way AM. He is Odin's brother in a storyline which I was at one point considering they may do something similar with Tyr in the movie, AND ties in with the World Serpent.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Cul_Borson_(Earth-616)

I still think that Odin dealing with an *ahem* problematic brother in his past, to parallel the Thor-Loki story, could be really interesting backstory at least for the MCU.

Yeah, I believe that's the Fear Itself storyline, which they did just a couple of years ago.

I think the idea is that Cul Borson is not Jörmungandr, the World Serpent, but rather Yet Another Serpent Who Also Kills Thor (But Totally Different).

I love parallels in stories, so a parallel to Thor-Loki would certainly be interesting. And it's likely to be, well, dark, perhaps even psychotic like this guy. I have the impression that the reviews of Fear Itself were mixed, so I'm not certain they will use that exact story.

 

[elizah72]

Yeah, I believe that's the Fear Itself storyline, which they did just a couple of years ago.

I think the idea is that Cul Borson is not Jörmungandr, the World Serpent, but rather Yet Another Serpent Who Also Kills Thor (But Totally Different).

I love parallels in stories, so a parallel to Thor-Loki would certainly be interesting. And it's likely to be, well, dark, perhaps even psychotic like this guy. I have the impression that the reviews of Fear Itself were mixed, so I'm not certain they will use that exact story.

probably not, no, but I just came across it and made me think of what I was thinking when Tyr was first cast.

Btw, the actor playing Tyr is 6 ft 5! That will make for a pretty intimidating figure whatever he is doing!

Looked at the Nidhogg image in Cap. Am. and it really looks like a snake/serpent, not a dragon, oh well... I guess it doesn't matter, since that's a "mortal's" imagining to create that image in the film, and two different artists from Cap and Avengers for that matter, but would have been cool if it matched! I still think that could be Nidhogg on Loki's armor though, thats' definitely not a wolf's tail there.

Jaimie in a new interview says more of everyday life on Asgard. Hm.. Laundry? Baking? Hanging out by the water cooler and talking smack about Loki?

sounds like Sif may have a few new weapons.

Also when asked if Sif spends time on Earth, or other realms she says she can't answer that, the snipers will get her. LOL

 

[jaqua99]

As Jaqua said, I didn't mean to imply that people who were fans of *just* the films weren't "true" fans; but that it's great to see people who are fans of the film start delving into the comics to become "true" fans of the comic book canon as well.



Not to worry....I got a minor in Comparative Mythology back in '87 . I've studied every mythos out there, pretty much --- Norse, Greek, Celtic, Mesopotamian, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Egyptian, Mayan, Aztec, even plenty of tribal religions, including my own tribe and other Native Americans, Africans, Vodoun, etc.

as for the thor stuff, I am curious, which "Thor world" do you prefer the most? Movie version, 616 version, or the mythological versions?

 

[cherokeesam]

Wow, how interesting!! I would love to know more about all these mythologies, how they are similar, how they are different, but of course there is so much to do and each day is short.

Since you have this knowledge, I have a question for you. It basically boils down to, "what bones does the story's skeleton need (in T:TDW)?"

I'm sure we're all familiar with Tom Hiddleston's letter to _The Guardian_ in defense of the superhero film (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2012/apr/19/avengers-assemble-tom-hiddleston-superhero). In it, he says:



I largely agree with Hiddleston, though not having had a survey of world myths like you, for example, have had, it's hard for me to say how universal such a film can be.

But what mythic elements make Hiddleston's statement true (to the extent that it is)? And what mythic elements should the story of Thor: The Dark World have to make it successful as a story and as modern mythology? (especially since it is a sequel)

Can such modern mythology be universal?

That's a great quote from Hiddie, and I agree with him 100%. Even since the Golden/Silver Age of comics, the superhero genre is really the new mythology. It essentially takes what storytellers have done for ages --- create tall tales and larger-than-life heroes, give them messianic and/or demonic implications, and plop them down into the contemporary world and pretend that it's all supposed to make perfect sense.

As far as the bare bones and mythic elements needed to create a mythology: I think you start with the most basic of structures, and create a beginning, middle and end to the world as we know it. A creation story, an apocalypse cycle, death and rebirth, all that. In the MCU, Thor is uniquely positioned over *any* other Marvel property to effectively embody that, and it, of course, already comes with a built-in pre-made mythos that's thousands of years old. It just remains to be seen how far Marvel Studios wants to go in applying that --- I mean, are they going to say that the Nine Realms are actual dimensions, or just different faraway planets? Will they risk offending Christians and other monotheists by implying that the Norse creation and Ragnarok myth are "accurate," and that Thor is, indeed, a god? Do the magical and supernatural elements of Asgard actually work, or will they be "Clarke's Law-ed" away as just a sufficiently advanced technology? Is there an actual underworld and an afterlife, as described in Norse myth?

I don't know. But I'm positive that TDW will address these questions a lot closer than Thor's "campfire scene" in Thor 1 where he just kind of brushed over everything with "your ancestors called it magic, but you call it science; where we come from, it is one and the same."

as for the thor stuff, I am curious, which "Thor world" do you prefer the most? Movie version, 616 version, or the mythological versions?

616. Kirby and Stan did a lot to romanticize and glamourize Norse myth into something I feel is "competitive" with the all-stars on Olympus.

But honestly, my favorite literary description of Norse myth comes from a very obscure sci-fi novella called "The Roaring Trumpet," written by L. Sprague De Camp and Fletcher Pratt back in the 1940s. It was part of an absolutely EXCELLENT series (that got revived in the 1990s) called the Incomplete Enchanter. It was about a scientist in our world who found a way to travel to the worlds of mythology and legendary fiction. Very funny stuff, too, but De Camp and Pratt also got all "srs bsns" about the relationship of magic and science in a very scholarly way as well.

I highly, HIGHLY recommend that anybody and everybody read that series, if you get a chance to check them out. As Thor fans, I especially recommend "The Roaring Trumpet." You'll never look at our Asgardian heroes and villains the same way again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roaring_Trumpet

 

[elizah72]

Some interesting scans from time that Tyr and Loki banded together against Odin, because Loki thinks Odin is cheating on Frigga. Midgard Serpent is seen chewing on the roots of Yggdrasil (instead of Nidhogg so again, the two dragons/serpents stories and looks may be combined for MCU)

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/3071406.html

Thor #324-327

 

[American Maid]

That's a great quote from Hiddie, and I agree with him 100%. Even since the Golden/Silver Age of comics, the superhero genre is really the new mythology. It essentially takes what storytellers have done for ages --- create tall tales and larger-than-life heroes, give them messianic and/or demonic implications, and plop them down into the contemporary world and pretend that it's all supposed to make perfect sense.

I can see that. Thanks!

As far as the bare bones and mythic elements needed to create a mythology: I think you start with the most basic of structures, and create a beginning, middle and end to the world as we know it. A creation story, an apocalypse cycle, death and rebirth, all that. In the MCU, Thor is uniquely positioned over *any* other Marvel property to effectively embody that, and it, of course, already comes with a built-in pre-made mythos that's thousands of years old.

The fact that it is based on an older myth naturally enhances its credibility as a modern myth.

It just remains to be seen how far Marvel Studios wants to go in applying that --- I mean, are they going to say that the Nine Realms are actual dimensions, or just different faraway planets?

I guess that means that using multiple dimensions is more mythic than using multiple planets?

Will they risk offending Christians and other monotheists by implying that the Norse creation and Ragnarok myth are "accurate," and that Thor is, indeed, a god? Do the magical and supernatural elements of Asgard actually work, or will they be "Clarke's Law-ed" away as just a sufficiently advanced technology? Is there an actual underworld and an afterlife, as described in Norse myth?

I think it will be a mixed bag. As I commented many months back in the News/spoilers thread, it seems to me that in the MCU, they are positioning the Asgardians as aliens with extraordinary (relative to humans) powers who were mistaken for gods in the Viking Age. I think they will have Ragnaroek have the effect of destroying Asgard (and perhaps some of the other 7 realms), but not Midgard. Midgard will be spared so that they don't have to involve their other properties if they do Ragnarok in, say, Thor3.

I said the other day I don't think they are going to do the march to Hel plot from the Simonson run, but I think they will say that Niffelheim and Hel exist, and the afterlife is more or less as described in the Norse myth (they probably won't do Folkvangr, for example). Elizah and I are batting a lot of ideas around, one of which is that Hela will make some sort of appearance, if not the one she does in the Simonson run. So yeah, I think they will do this part.

Your comment about magic vs. Clarke's Third Law suggests that it is more mythical for such phenomena to be supernatural, magical in the sense of manipulating various sources of energy not supported by (current) scientific knowledge. It's a comment that is very interesting for me, because, as I mentioned a while back, the idea of magic being explained as sufficiently advanced technology had captured my imagination when I first saw Thor1. Using the mythology framework you outlined above, I think the reason why I was so excited about that idea was that, for me, making the magical phenomena grounded in science that is not (yet) understood by humans makes the phenomena *more* real to me, *more* grounded in the actual, contemporary world. I'm sure you have the more accurate interpretation of what makes something mythical; I don't mean to subtract from that. I just found it interesting that I had a different response to that element in the film but that perhaps comes back to the same thing.

So for me, I will be happy no matter which way they go on this point.

As for whether Christians and other monotheists would be offended, of course, Christians are not a monolithic block and are numerous enough that I'm sure someone will be offended and someone else will not be. As I've said before, I am surprised at what people *are* offended by, and what they are *not* offended by. My guess is that the overwhelming majority will not be.

I don't know. But I'm positive that TDW will address these questions a lot closer than Thor's "campfire scene" in Thor 1 where he just kind of brushed over everything with "your ancestors called it magic, but you call it science; where we come from, it is one and the same."

It has to be that way, since the film will spend most of its time somewhere besides Earth.


<Jon asked you which continuity you prefer>

616. Kirby and Stan did a lot to romanticize and glamourize Norse myth into something I feel is "competitive" with the all-stars on Olympus.

I'm curious: is your preference specifically when Kirby and Lee worked on the title, or the whole of 616?

But honestly, my favorite literary description of Norse myth comes from a very obscure sci-fi novella called "The Roaring Trumpet," written by L. Sprague De Camp and Fletcher Pratt back in the 1940s. It was part of an absolutely EXCELLENT series (that got revived in the 1990s) called the Incomplete Enchanter. It was about a scientist in our world who found a way to travel to the worlds of mythology and legendary fiction. Very funny stuff, too, but De Camp and Pratt also got all "srs bsns" about the relationship of magic and science in a very scholarly way as well.

I highly, HIGHLY recommend that anybody and everybody read that series, if you get a chance to check them out. As Thor fans, I especially recommend "The Roaring Trumpet." You'll never look at our Asgardian heroes and villains the same way again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roaring_Trumpet

Thanks for the tip!

ANd thanks for the very interesting post!

 

[elizah72]

Okay so I am through Mighty Thor 362 now and I will say there is some very very interesting things in there in relation to Thor 2 and the Lawden spoilers!!

I asked earlier if some characters might take on part of Balder's part in the stories, for the film, and I've been thinking that it seems likely a death figure like Hela might appear in Thor 2 due to the war and death going on, among other things I was guessing at, so.....

in the Lawden spoilers, he says that Thor needs Loki to go to the dark side of Asgard, and only Loki can get there. In 360, it is revealed that because Balder was once dead, only he knows "the way home from the dismal halls of death." Now, in the MCU who have I been hypothesizing *might* have actually died and escaped that fate through charm or trickery? BINGO. So, if that part of the Simonson stuff is used, then Loki is filling in the Balder part there, by being the one who can help Thor get in and out of Hel. Why would he do this, is my question though. Maybe if it's a mission to save Frigga from Hel and get her to Valhalla? (and yes I know Hel is not on Asgard, but there is a pathway to Hel there, and that and Lawden may have confused it with being part of Asgard.)

Also, revealed in my readings and mentioned by AM, the mortals who eat Dark Elf food, become slaves to the Elves, with their souls going to Hel. So that ties in Hela with the Dark Elves, and also, if this has happened to Jane at some point, then that goes along with Lawden's spoiler that Jane is possessed, and why he brings her along with him on that trip, and he has to go there to face Hela to free Jane and other mortal souls from Hel. In the comics, the mission is to do this ,but also Thor hopes to find Odin who is thought dead after battling Surtur, so this instead could be a search for Frigga and saving those mortal souls combined.

I don't see the saving Jane/mortal souls thing as being Loki's reason for risking all by going back to Hel. Although I suppose, 1) Loki knows he has favor and possibly relation to Hela, and will get out okay, but hoping Thor does not, or 2) he is biding his time to get away from Thor and imprisonment, or 3) He genuinely wants to rectify his wrongs (which he does seem to want to do in the panel with Tyr that I linked last post I made)

While in Hel, Balder reveals that he had to fight those who he'd slain in battle in order to escape, if something similar happened to Loki (but with a different effect on him than it had for Balder), then that gives greater weight to his speech to BW in Avengers when he says that it will always be a part of you (what she's done), since he would have realized that about himself in Hel.

There is a ship of the damned that has been in the making "since the dawn of time", Naglfar, which could be the irregularly shaped ship mentioned in the Italian footage and could be the ship that crashes into the palace per a stunt man's tweet a while back.

Hela refers to her warriors as "red reavers" and could be some of the warriors at Bourne (maybe)

It takes them 9 days travel just to get to the entrance to Hel. So not a quick easy trip, for sure. Note, as I've pointed out before some caves and waterfalls were in the past seen as passageways to the underworld ... so think that huge waterfall they used in Iceland for an entrance/exit from Asgard.

During their trip to Hel, they are met with loved ones that are dead. This could be a place to revisit Frigga after her death.

As for Tyr, in the panel I linked, Odin forgives Loki but says that for Tyr no redemption is possible. IF for the sake of the MCU Tyr has been left at that point in his relationship with Odin, whether it be as a son, or a brother or what have you, then that would certainly put him on the side of evil. Also, I see in the Fear Itself JIM series that Tyr is in the service of Hela, so if Tyr is dead, after doing something unforgivable in Odin's eyes in the past, and he's now Hela's henchman, then that could be that scenario in Thor 2.

Along that lines, If Krige is Hela, and she's saying she has a small part, if Tyr is her henchman then that could explain that. That would also make her appearances more impactful since she's sure to have an interesting and probably creepy appearance, but still have her presence felt through Tyr following her orders.

She also could be the one who Algrim dies and comes into contact with, and then she at some point decides she wants to use him to kill Thor, and so changes Algrim to Kurse to do that. Makes more sense to me than Surtur doing it, since Algrim is likely to have direct contact with Hela once he dies in the pit.

And if, as I've been wondering, they decide to use Hela, maybe with a few changes on her background, as Thanos' love interest in future stories (instead of having 2 female embodiments of Death), then they could give Mistress Death's backstory to Hela, and maybe some of her powers. In that way making her more likely to be that shadowy enemy that predates the universe, that neither Odin nor the Asgardians can withstand, as mentioned in the synopsis.. And then she's be introduced in the MCU and ready to come back in a story with Thanos at a later date.

RE: the last stand of Skurge, if Executioner is not introduced, then it occurred to me this could actually be a pretty impressive way to go out for Hogun.

 

[American Maid]

Okay so I am through Mighty Thor 362 now and I will say there is some very very interesting things in there in relation to Thor 2 and the Lawden spoilers!!

t:

in the Lawden spoilers, he says that Thor needs Loki to go to the dark side of Asgard, and only Loki can get there. In 360, it is revealed that because Balder was once dead, only he knows "the way home from the dismal halls of death." Now, in the MCU who have I been hypothesizing *might* have actually died and escaped that fate through charm or trickery? BINGO.

Yes, I had been thinking that when you were writing about that, and I was at that point in the book. (Does that mean I can claim to have gotten a "BINGO" from you?)

So, if that part of the Simonson stuff is used, then Loki is filling in the Balder part there, by being the one who can help Thor get in and out of Hel. Why would he do this, is my question though. Maybe if it's a mission to save Frigga from Hel and get her to Valhalla? (and yes I know Hel is not on Asgard, but there is a pathway to Hel there, and that and Lawden may have confused it with being part of Asgard.)

They could play it either way. Either there is a portal to the dimension that contains the realm of Hel, or it could be like it's shown in the Simonson run, where they travel overland and eventually get to Garm and the passage toward Hel.

(After Garm, they travel 9 days and 9 nights. Nine, as I understand, is an important number in Norse mythology. Maybe CherokeeSam knows the significance of it?)

Also, revealed in my readings and mentioned by AM, the mortals who eat Dark Elf food, become slaves to the Elves, with their souls going to Hel. So that ties in Hela with the Dark Elves, and also, if this has happened to Jane at some point, then that goes along with Lawden's spoiler that Jane is possessed, and why he brings her along with him on that trip, and he has to go there to face Hela to free Jane and other mortal souls from Hel.

Yeah, I had thought that (but try not to bring Jane up myself in these threads). When the spoiler first came out, I thought Jane was possessed in a kicking and screaming sort of way. It didn't make sense for her to be dragged around to all these other realms. And if a disembodied spirit takes possession of her, then that spirit would need to be willing to go wherever Thor and crew were headed. And if it's a sorcerer controlling her remotely, he or she would either need to be near at hand, or be very powerful (or be boosted by a talisman).

Something like this makes more sense for Jane being in the party. In the book (#346), Thor knocks out a bunch of ensorceled mortals with some lightning then calls the authorities. One gets the impression the mortals are pretty docile until Thor brings their souls back. So it makes more sense for Jane to be tagging along.

Now, the one thing about the fight in Hel that doesn't seem to fit with bringing Jane along is this: that was a pretty dangerous fight down there. Hela employed a lot of dangerous trickery, and used the Hand of Glory on Thor as well. So for an ensorceled mortal body to be wandering around right in Hela's realm, where she could literally lay her hands on her, seems a bit risky. Why wouldn't they leave her in, for example, Asgard, and then bring her soul to her?

(Just thought of this: maybe Lawden had some awareness of Portman being in these journey scenes. Maybe Portman was playing Jane's disembodied soul at that point, and those scenes are the journey back)

In the comics, the mission is to do this ,but also Thor hopes to find Odin who is thought dead after battling Surtur, so this instead could be a search for Frigga and saving those mortal souls combined.

Thor is struggling with his grief over Odin, and yes, he wants to see if he is there. Loki had told him back in #355 I believe that Odin cannot possibly be dead, because otherwise they would have inherited the Odinforce. But Thor I think finds that hard to accept, since Odin is no where to be found on Asgard (and not able to be sensed in any of the nine realms by those who have that sort of power).

I don't see the saving Jane/mortal souls thing as being Loki's reason for risking all by going back to Hel.

Hel, no!

Although I suppose, 1) Loki knows he has favor and possibly relation to Hela, and will get out okay, but hoping Thor does not, or 2) he is biding his time to get away from Thor and imprisonment, or 3) He genuinely wants to rectify his wrongs (which he does seem to want to do in the panel with Tyr that I linked last post I made)

or 4) wants a marker on Thor that he can call in at some future time.

While in Hel, Balder reveals that he had to fight those who he'd slain in battle in order to escape, if something similar happened to Loki (but with a different effect on hm than it had for Balder), then that gives greater weight to his speech to BW in Avengers when he says that it will always be a part of you (what she's done), since he would have realized that about himself in Hel.

Dead Jotunn, I suppose. Do Jotunn go to Hel when they die? He wouldnt' have met the humans he has killed because he would not yet have killed them.

As for Tyr, in the panel I linked, Odin forgives Loki but says that for Tyr no redemption is possible. IF for the sake of the MCU Tyr has been left at that point in his relationship with Odin, whether it be as a son, or a brother or what have you, then that would certainly put him on the side of evil. Also, I see in the Fear Itself JIM series that Tyr is in the service of Hela, so if Tyr is dead, after doing something unforgivable in Odin's eyes in the past, and he's now Hela's henchman, then that could be that scenario in Thor 2.

I'll be interested to hear what you think after/if you read that Fear Itself arc.

Along that lines, If Krige is Hela, and she's saying she has a small part, if Tyr is her henchman then that could explain that. That would also make her appearances more impactful since she's sure to have an interesting and probably creepy appearance, but still have her presence felt through Tyr following her orders.

Now, Hela is a major figure, and a powerful opponent to Thor. So an appearance from Hela may not be a small part. So that's one piece of information that works against this idea (unless Krige was downplaying her role. . .)

She also could be the one who Algrim dies and comes into contact with, and then she at some point decides she wants to use him to kill Thor, and so changes Algrim to Kurse to do that. Makes more sense to me than Surtur doing it, since Algrim is likely to have direct contact with Hela once he dies in the pit.

True. ANd Hela has that power (to give life to a mortal). Apparently, she rarely uses it. COme to think of it, I don't know if she has the power to change someone's form, though.

And if, as I've been wondering, they decide to use Hela, maybe with a few changes on her background, as Thanos' love interest in future stories (instead of having 2 female embodiments of Death), then they could give Mistress Death's backstory to Hela, and maybe some of her powers, making her more likely to be that shadowy enemy that predates the universe, that neither Odin nor the Asgardians can withstand, as mentioned in the synopsis... and then she's be introduced and ready to come back in a story with Thanos at a later date.

Well, death is indeed something that no Asgardian can withstand, eventually.

RE: the last stand of Skurge, if Executioner is not introduced, then it occurred to me this could actually be a pretty impressive way to go out for Hogun.

Actually, I had been thinking of Kurse defending the Gjallerbru (or something equivalent, if they don't march into Hel). We had talked in the Kurse thread about the idea of there being more to his character, a redemption arc. Maybe he becomes peaceful and leads his people in a new direction. Or maybe he's the one that protects the party's retreat.

Skurge says: They made a fool of me, Balder. They laughed at me. Everybody laughs at Skurge. Hela, Mordonna, even the Enchantress I love. They all laugh at me. Except you. Balder is too kind to laugh at Skurge. But whenever they laugh, I hurt inside. Maybe I die a little. Now I think I am dead already. And my axe was destroyed with Naglfar. I will stay behind and the last laugh will be mine.

Algrim is used carelessly by Malekith. So maybe he's dead inside. (He's actually dead already.)

Now, if they do use this march to Hel and it appears early in the story, it may be too early for Kurse to be at a point where he's read to do such a thing (also, if Hela changes Algrim to Kurse, maybe it happens here). Anyway, when I suggested circling back when you got to this scene, this is what I was thinking of.

I have a couple of new ideas for Alice Krige casting too. But I want to get a little further along before I post over in that thread.

And I'm waiting to read more of it before I firm up my opinion on how much will be used.

It's all fun in any event!

 

[jaqua99]

Okay so I am through Mighty Thor 362 now and I will say there is some very very interesting things in there in relation to Thor 2 and the Lawden spoilers!!

I asked earlier if some characters might take on part of Balder's part in the stories, for the film, and I've been thinking that it seems likely a death figure like Hela might appear in Thor 2 due to the war and death going on, among other things I was guessing at, so.....

in the Lawden spoilers, he says that Thor needs Loki to go to the dark side of Asgard, and only Loki can get there. In 360, it is revealed that because Balder was once dead, only he knows "the way home from the dismal halls of death." Now, in the MCU who have I been hypothesizing *might* have actually died and escaped that fate through charm or trickery? BINGO. So, if that part of the Simonson stuff is used, then Loki is filling in the Balder part there, by being the one who can help Thor get in and out of Hel. Why would he do this, is my question though. Maybe if it's a mission to save Frigga from Hel and get her to Valhalla? (and yes I know Hel is not on Asgard, but there is a pathway to Hel there, and that and Lawden may have confused it with being part of Asgard.)

Also, revealed in my readings and mentioned by AM, the mortals who eat Dark Elf food, become slaves to the Elves, with their souls going to Hel. So that ties in Hela with the Dark Elves, and also, if this has happened to Jane at some point, then that goes along with Lawden's spoiler that Jane is possessed, and why he brings her along with him on that trip, and he has to go there to face Hela to free Jane and other mortal souls from Hel. In the comics, the mission is to do this ,but also Thor hopes to find Odin who is thought dead after battling Surtur, so this instead could be a search for Frigga and saving those mortal souls combined.

I don't see the saving Jane/mortal souls thing as being Loki's reason for risking all by going back to Hel. Although I suppose, 1) Loki knows he has favor and possibly relation to Hela, and will get out okay, but hoping Thor does not, or 2) he is biding his time to get away from Thor and imprisonment, or 3) He genuinely wants to rectify his wrongs (which he does seem to want to do in the panel with Tyr that I linked last post I made)

While in Hel, Balder reveals that he had to fight those who he'd slain in battle in order to escape, if something similar happened to Loki (but with a different effect on him than it had for Balder), then that gives greater weight to his speech to BW in Avengers when he says that it will always be a part of you (what she's done), since he would have realized that about himself in Hel.

There is a ship of the damned that has been in the making "since the dawn of time", Naglfar, which could be the irregularly shaped ship mentioned in the Italian footage and could be the ship that crashes into the palace per a stunt man's tweet a while back.

Hela refers to her warriors as "red reavers" and could be some of the warriors at Bourne (maybe)

It takes them 9 days travel just to get to the entrance to Hel. So not a quick easy trip, for sure. Note, as I've pointed out before some caves and waterfalls were in the past seen as passageways to the underworld ... so think that huge waterfall they used in Iceland for an entrance/exit from Asgard.

During their trip to Hel, they are met with loved ones that are dead. This could be a place to revisit Frigga after her death.

As for Tyr, in the panel I linked, Odin forgives Loki but says that for Tyr no redemption is possible. IF for the sake of the MCU Tyr has been left at that point in his relationship with Odin, whether it be as a son, or a brother or what have you, then that would certainly put him on the side of evil. Also, I see in the Fear Itself JIM series that Tyr is in the service of Hela, so if Tyr is dead, after doing something unforgivable in Odin's eyes in the past, and he's now Hela's henchman, then that could be that scenario in Thor 2.

Along that lines, If Krige is Hela, and she's saying she has a small part, if Tyr is her henchman then that could explain that. That would also make her appearances more impactful since she's sure to have an interesting and probably creepy appearance, but still have her presence felt through Tyr following her orders.

She also could be the one who Algrim dies and comes into contact with, and then she at some point decides she wants to use him to kill Thor, and so changes Algrim to Kurse to do that. Makes more sense to me than Surtur doing it, since Algrim is likely to have direct contact with Hela once he dies in the pit.

And if, as I've been wondering, they decide to use Hela, maybe with a few changes on her background, as Thanos' love interest in future stories (instead of having 2 female embodiments of Death), then they could give Mistress Death's backstory to Hela, and maybe some of her powers, making her more likely to be that shadowy enemy that predates the universe, that neither Odin nor the Asgardians can withstand, as mentioned in the synopsis... and then she's be introduced and ready to come back in a story with Thanos at a later date.

RE: the last stand of Skurge, if Executioner is not introduced, then it occurred to me this could actually be a pretty impressive way to go out for Hogun.

While it seems plausible, I am not sure I am on board with this. Especially the Hela taking death's place role. IF Thanos' role does involve with a love for an embodiment of death, then I believe that should be left alone. Let death be death. A universal abstract only. There are other ways to tie these films together. there needs to be some independence to them. And again, with this movie being based on that malekith arc in the simonson run, and the fact that that arc leads to surtur, and the fact that the synopsis mentions of said enemy, Surtur seems like the logical idea. Even if it is death, why? death isn't a "villain". It's a universal abstract. Again, this seems to be branching off the idea of tying the films to Thanos, when it doesn't necessarily have to stay that way. Thanos' love is the universal abstract, death embodied. While i did suggest a while back having thanos be in love with hela, as she could sorta be altered into death (yes, that was me who suggested it originally, ironic I know lol) I am not fond of that idea anymore. Death is an abstract being, I don't see a reason for it to be the behind the scenes antagonist of Thor: The Dark World. Not when there is a more logical villain that fits into the puzzle peice personally.

And again, Thanos lure will most likely be unfolded in guardians of the galaxy. IF we find out about Thanos' love for death, and if death truely has a form, it will probably appear when Thanos' has a role.

I think think movie is mostly going to stick to Thor stuff

 

[elizah72]

While it seems plausible, I am not sure I am on board with this. Especially the Hela taking death's place role.

Then ignore that part. It's not important anyway, just trying to tie it in neatly with what we know about Thanos, otherwise they have to introduce Hela AND Lady Death in the MCU, and that seems like that might be confusing, but maybe not.

And again, with this movie being based on that malekith arc in the simonson run, and the fact that that arc leads to surtur, and the fact that the synopsis mentions of said enemy, Surtur seems like the logical idea

BUt there IS a tie in for Hela and Malekith due to the souls of those who eat the Elf food going to Hel, and that ties in with another part of the Simonson run where they go to Hel to rescue those mortal souls, and that ties in with multiple spoilers that we've been given. So... I'm thinking that Surtur might not be the right guess. Besides let me remind you, of a quote not long ago where Feige said something to the effect that the comic book fans have the advantage of knowing the past material and try to guess where it will go, but sometimes they guess wrong. So the obvious choice, may not be THE choice, for the sake of surprising the established fans, if nothing else. And I still think Surtur is likely for Thor 3, and we may get a glimpse or at least mention of him in 2 as well, to foreshadow it.

And again, Thanos lure will most likely be unfolded in guardians of the galaxy. IF we find out about Thanos' love for death, and if death truely has a form, it will probably appear when Thanos' has a role.

and maybe Death will be separate from Hela as you say, but they can still make some adjustments to Hela, as they see fit to work into the story better for the film, it's just a thought.

 

[elizah72]

t:Yes, I had been thinking that when you were writing about that, and I was at that point in the book. (Does that mean I can claim to have gotten a "BINGO" from you?)

Yes indeed!

They could play it either way. Either there is a portal to the dimension that contains the realm of Hel, or it could be like it's shown in the Simonson run, where they travel overland and eventually get to Garm and the passage toward Hel.

It seems likely given the Lawden spoilers and the trip to beautiful parts of Iceland that they will probably take the long way.

Now, the one thing about the fight in Hel that doesn't seem to fit with bringing Jane along is this: that was a pretty dangerous fight down there. Hela employed a lot of dangerous trickery, and used the Hand of Glory on Thor as well. So for an ensorceled mortal body to be wandering around right in Hela's realm, where she could literally lay her hands on her, seems a bit risky. Why wouldn't they leave her in, for example, Asgard, and then bring her soul to her?

yeah that bothers me, maybe either he is wrong about her tagging along, and she is left behind, or when they get to the entrance it's decided to have her stay behind there maybe with someone protecting her. (I'd assume if this is all the case then we may get Warriors 3 and Sif along for the trip as well)

(Just thought of this: maybe Lawden had some awareness of Portman being in these journey scenes. Maybe Portman was playing Jane's disembodied soul at that point, and those scenes are the journey back)

that's a possibility yes, although Id' think the spirit wouldn't need to travel back with anyone ,it would simply go back. Otherwise they'd have to travel back with any other souls as well and find their bodies wherever they are. Too complicated and boring.

or 4) wants a marker on Thor that he can call in at some future time.

Yup. that's another possible reason.

Dead Jotunn, I suppose. Do Jotunn go to Hel when they die? He wouldnt' have met the humans he has killed because he would not yet have killed them.

If that is where the Jotunn go, maybe, also he's been fighting at Thor's side for 1000 years so there is sure to be lots of red on his ledger due to that even before Thor 1. And maybe he isn't as successful as Balder was in defeating them and then he has to use his bargaining skills etc with Hela. (and if he is some relation to her, then that makes her more likely to give him a break anyway)

Now, Hela is a major figure, and a powerful opponent to Thor. So an appearance from Hela may not be a small part. So that's one piece of information that works against this idea (unless Krige was downplaying her role. . .)

she may not need to be in it that much, if Tyr is used as her mouthpiece with the living for the most part, then she can remain in the shadows for much of it. She may also not realize how big a villain she is in Thor's world maybe.

Well, death is indeed something that no Asgardian can withstand, eventually.

Exactly.

Actually, I had been thinking of Kurse defending the Gjallerbru (or something equivalent, if they don't march into Hel). We had talked in the Kurse thread about the idea of there being more to his character, a redemption arc. Maybe he becomes peaceful and leads his people in a new direction. Or maybe he's the one that protects the party's retreat.

possible. that's another thought. I was trying to give one of the Warriors 3 a big moment.

Skurge says: They made a fool of me, Balder. They laughed at me. Everybody laughs at Skurge. Hela, Mordonna, even the Enchantress I love. They all laugh at me. Except you. Balder is too kind to laugh at Skurge. But whenever they laugh, I hurt inside. Maybe I die a little. Now I think I am dead already. And my axe was destroyed with Naglfar. I will stay behind and the last laugh will be mine.

Algrim is used carelessly by Malekith. So maybe he's dead inside. (He's actually dead already.)

Now, if they do use this march to Hel and it appears early in the story, it may be too early for Kurse to be at a point where he's read to do such a thing (also, if Hela changes Algrim to Kurse, maybe it happens here). Anyway, when I suggested circling back when you got to this scene, this is what I was thinking of.

ok, that's interesting. So what you are proposing is that Algrim dies and goes to Hel, and then Thor and co are in Hel, and maybe Hela decides to change him to Kurse then and there and fight Thor? And then in the course of that Kurse realizes how Malekith (and maybe Hela too) betrayed him, and he helps Thor and co get away by fighting as Skurge does at the bridge? That would take away that revenge moment with Malekith maybe, unless he somehow survives that and is able to leave Hel somehow.

I have a couple of new ideas for Alice Krige casting too. But I want to get a little further along before I post over in that thread.

And I'm waiting to read more of it before I firm up my opinion on how much will be used.

It's all fun in any event!

Yup!

 

[American Maid]

One comment I forgot to make earlier: as I recall, Lawden also talks about going to the dark side and training an army. In the battle of New York, the Einherjar, the dead warriors in Valhalla, play a role. I looked back through the issues and couldn't find explicitly how they get called up. However, in the little Last Viking storyline (#342-343), Odin is actually in Valhalla dining with the warriors (per myth). So it's likely he calls them up personally.

If these warriors show up in Thor2 as reinforcements, perhaps Odin is not able to call them up, leading to the Lawden spoiler. I had long supposed that Odin must be incapacitated or otherwise occupied to require assistance. So this piece fits with that as well.

 

[jaqua99]

Then ignore that part. It's not important anyway, just trying to tie it in neatly with what we know about Thanos, otherwise they have to introduce Hela AND Lady Death in the MCU, and that seems like that might be confusing, but maybe not.

Personally I don't think Lady death will appear at all. Or maybe it will be like the grim reaper. Or just a hallucination Thanos has, showing he's psychotic. Gotcha :P

BUt there IS a tie in for Hela and Malekith due to the souls of those who eat the Elf food going to Hel, and that ties in with another part of the Simonson run where they go to Hel to rescue those mortal souls, and that ties in with multiple spoilers that we've been given. So... I'm thinking that Surtur might not be the right guess. Besides let me remind you, of a quote not long ago where Feige said something to the effect that the comic book fans have the advantage of knowing the past material and try to guess where it will go, but sometimes they guess wrong. So the obvious choice, may not be THE choice, for the sake of surprising the established fans, if nothing else. And I still think Surtur is likely for Thor 3, and we may get a glimpse or at least mention of him in 2 as well, to foreshadow it.

I think Surtur is for Thor 3 as well. I think the villain in the synopsis will stay behind the scenes the ENTIRE movie.

And this movie will mostly revolve around villains Malekith, and Kurse, and if she has a role, Hela. that's what I think this movie will be, with hints of surtur through out, and Surtur will be revealed after the credits, leading into Thor 3.

It is the synopsis I suppose. That villain in the synopsis, I don't think that villain will be the primary antagonist ofthe movie, I think that villain will stay in the backround. Which is why I think the villain is Surtur. Just for some clarity, and to make it brief

I think the villain in the synopsis won't actually appear until after the credits, and will be the primary villain in the 3rd movie. Which is why I think it will be Surtur :P

again, I know I know, my typical unexplained POV

though on a side now, while the obvious choice may not be the one they go with, one that leads into surtur, a villain like that for Thor, he's expected to appear eventually, and 2, I feel like some people would be let down, filling in his role with something else.

So I think this may be the rare time where the obvious choice is indeed, the obvious choice :P, but we can of course agree to disagree.

shocker lol

I wish more of my friends were into comics, conversations would be so much more fun, this is fun lol

and maybe Death will be separate from Hela as you say, but they can still make some adjustments to Hela, as they see fit to work into the story better for the film, it's just a thought.

[/QUOTE]

yeah. It's just making her death, well I mean, that would sorta pull Thanos into the Thor world. And that's just a weee bit too much :P

 

[American Maid]

<Do I get a "BINGO"?>

Yes indeed!

Hooray!

<Which way to Hel?>

It seems likely given the Lawden spoilers and the trip to beautiful parts of Iceland that they will probably take the long way.

That's true. You had mentioned going behind a waterfall at one point. That makes it convenient to step through the waterfall. . .and onto a soundstage, where they can meet an oversized beast (Garm or something else)

<Why is Jane going to a dangerous place?>

yeah that bothers me, maybe either he is wrong about her tagging along, and she is left behind, or when they get to the entrance it's decided to have her stay behind there maybe with someone protecting her. (I'd assume if this is all the case then we may get Warriors 3 and Sif along for the trip as well)

But of course, Natalie Portman was not on location in Iceland, we're fairly certain. . .

<Maybe Lawden was referring to scenes in which Jane's disembodied spirit travels along>

that's a possibility yes, although Id' think the spirit wouldn't need to travel back with anyone ,it would simply go back. Otherwise they'd have to travel back with any other souls as well and find their bodies wherever they are. Too complicated and boring.

Well, circle back after you've seen #362 and #363.

possible. that's another thought. I was trying to give one of the Warriors 3 a big moment.

Which is good, except for the dying part

ok, that's interesting. So what you are proposing is that Algrim dies and goes to Hel, and then Thor and co are in Hel, and maybe Hela decides to change him to Kurse then and there and fight Thor? And then in the course of that Kurse realizes how Malekith (and maybe Hela too) betrayed him, and he helps Thor and co get away by fighting as Skurge does at the bridge? That would take away that revenge moment with Malekith maybe, unless he somehow survives that and is able to leave Hel somehow.

Well, I wasn't proposing that (hadn't quite connected the two thoughts when I wrote it). But that is an interesting turn of events.

I haven't read the whole way through the Kurse arc, so maybe I'll have a different view a little bit later.

 

[elizah72]

I'm not convinced yet that they'd bring in Valhalla yet, and it's a bit confusing since they've called the Einherjar the living Asgardian warriors in past film, so not sure how they'll make that distinction. I could see Thor go in with a smaller group this time, in a way that's smarter because if each warrior has to battle someone he's slain in battle, then the less warriors going in, the less dead warriors to battle (if that's how it's done and I'm understanding correctly)

 

[jaqua99]

<Do I get a "BINGO"?>


Hooray!

<Which way to Hel?>


That's true. You had mentioned going behind a waterfall at one point. That makes it convenient to step through the waterfall. . .and onto a soundstage, where they can meet an oversized beast (Garm or something else)

<Why is Jane going to a dangerous place?>


But of course, Natalie Portman was not on location in Iceland, we're fairly certain. . .

<Maybe Lawden was referring to scenes in which Jane's disembodied spirit travels along>

Well, circle back after you've seen #362 and #363.



Which is good, except for the dying part



Well, I wasn't proposing that (hadn't quite connected the two thoughts when I wrote it). But that is an interesting turn of events.

I haven't read the whole way through the Kurse arc, so maybe I'll have a different view a little bit later.

idk about Skruge yet. Maybe later. Hell I hope he and amora does get introduced. God knows what the hell they are doing with Kurse. Seriously. lol I sometimes forget he is even suppose to be in this movie

 

[American Maid]

I wish more of my friends were into comics, conversations would be so much more fun, this is fun lol

Yeah, this IS fun!! Thanks for being a part of it. t:

 

[elizah72]

Personally I don't think Lady death will appear at all. Or maybe it will be like the grim reaper. Or just a hallucination Thanos has, showing he's psychotic. Gotcha :P

yeah one possibility is he is in love with the concept of death, but not an actual entity.... he's just a psychotic bastard.

And this movie will mostly revolve around villains Malekith, and Kurse, and if she has a role, Hela. that's what I think this movie will be, with hints of surtur through out, and Surtur will be revealed after the credits, leading into Thor 3.

agreed, the synopsis could still point to him and have it not be more than a hint here and there and maybe a cameo at the end leading up to Thor 3... sort of like what happened in the comics too.

though on a side now, while the obvious choice may not be the one they go with, one that leads into surtur, a villain like that for Thor, he's expected to appear eventually, and 2, I feel like some people would be let down, filling in his role with something else.

although if it's filled with something else, and something else being something as kickass as Hela (hardly a let down, I think), but with other hints and maybe a cameo it is made clear that Thor 3 will have Surtur, would that be all that disappointing? Wouldn't it make you more excited to see the next installment?

Did you see Big Bang Theory tonight btw? Yay for girls talking about Thor and Mjolnir! LOL

That's true. You had mentioned going behind a waterfall at one point. That makes it convenient to step through the waterfall. . .and onto a soundstage, where they can meet an oversized beast (Garm or something else)

Or Nidhogg!

Which is good, except for the dying part

All the more future screentime for Loki

idk about Skruge yet. Maybe later. Hell I hope he and amora does get introduced. God knows what the hell they are doing with Kurse. Seriously. lol I sometimes forget he is even suppose to be in this movie

I know, I do that too. I get the feeling that Skurge and Amora are kind of overused though in the comics and cartoons though. I sort of hope they use some of the lesser used characters, I think that'll keep things more interesting and more room to write a new story. It was fun to see Enchantress flirting with Heimdall though. LOL I bet Idris wouldn't mind some of that. And again we have the problem with Amora that we have with Loki and Odin, they've hardly had them show any magic, and so then that's adding another character that they can show not using magic. Although, it certainly sounds like they were very interested in using Karnilla (with Balder) in the first film so it'll be interesting if they do revisit that somehow.

 

[jaqua99]

although if it's filled with something else, and something else being something as kickass as Hela (hardly a let down, I think), but with other hints and maybe a cameo it is made clear that Thor 3 will have Surtur, would that be all that disappointing? Wouldn't it make you more excited to see the next installment?

I would be dissappointed of Hela replaced Surtur's role completely. meaning no Surtur at all. While I do think Hela will be in the movie, I don't think she is the villain in the synopsis. Even if she is, as long as surtur is lead to, then I am okay with it. I thought you meant completely replacing Surtur's role with hers.

Did you see Big Bang Theory tonight btw? Yay for girls talking about Thor and Mjolnir! LOL

Don't watch that show :/

I know, I do that too. I get the feeling that Skurge and Amora are kind of overused though in the comics and cartoons though. I sort of hope they use some of the lesser used characters, I think that'll keep things more interesting and more room to write a new story. It was fun to see Enchantress flirting with Heimdall though. LOL I bet Idris wouldn't mind some of that. And again we have the problem with Amora that we have with Loki and Odin, they've hardly had them show any magic, and so then that's adding another character that they can show not using magic. Although, it certainly sounds like they were very interested in using Karnilla (with Balder) in the first film so it'll be interesting if they do revisit that somehow.

It depends. I hope magic is recognized as, well, magic. Asgardian magic is simply what it is stated to be. Magic.

 

[elizah72]

I would be dissappointed of Hela replaced Surtur's role completely. meaning no Surtur at all. While I do think Hela will be in the movie, I don't think she is the villain in the synopsis. Even if she is, as long as surtur is lead to, then I am okay with it. I thought you meant completely replacing Surtur's role with hers.

Oh, I think we'll get a glimpse of him at least, just not sure we need more than a glimpse and a hint at this point. They probably want to sot of keep him hidden in Thor 2, so the anticipation is greater to see him in Thor3. Otherwise if he's seen in all his glory in Thor 2, then that audience anticipation is already gone. They seem to like to hide the "monsters" and such leading up to these types of films for that reason.

Don't watch that show :/

watch the episode that aired tonight online or whatever if you can. It will make you t:

 

[elizah72]

But of course, Natalie Portman was not on location in Iceland, we're fairly certain. . .

actually, if all they needed of her there were distance shots of them travelling, then her stand in body double could have covered that.

and btw, I'm laughing at the fact that one of my first posts in here was about Hela and her Ship, and how I was thinking her army would be involved, and then thought no, it's something else, and now I'm back to Hela and her ship and army again. LOL

Though still actually not sure about Bourne woods, still thinking the Vanir are some of what is there, with some other realms teaming up. I think that would be a great side story, just maybe much more minor involvement than what I was thinking earlier. I think we might get multiple realms hitting Asgard at once, possibly through the manipulations of Hela and/or Malekith.

 

[elizah72]

Okay so I'm through Balder The Brave 4 (but not started 363 This Kursed Earth yet)

In both this and another part I see that there is a muzzle put on magic users to prevent them from using their spells. I had supposed that at the end of Avengers they muzzled Loki to keep him from trying to talk his way out of trouble, but now I see that it may have to do with that. So it would seem likely that he'll have a muzzle on to prevent his use of magic to start out, probably.

In this the plan of the Frost Giants is, after they find out that "Old One Eye" is gone, they decide to attack the allies of Asgard first and then make their way to Asgard. In my summary I was supposing that the attackers might hit the outskirts of Asgard first, possibly Nornheim, and possibly Midgard at the same time, to draw Thor away, for a simultaneous attack on the palace. That could be, or it could be that we have several realms attacking Asgards allies all at once, drawing them out, perhaps drawing Odin to Alfheim for example, and then that leaves Frigga with not a lot of protection in the palace (this is if Asgards enemies are smart enough and willing to band together, and attack all at once). This being said, I do have some rethinking of strategy to do on my last beginning summary. Hm...

The fabled Sword of Frey appears in this story... and I've been speculating that the Vanir is at Bourne Woods and possibly Frey is the guy on white horse (with a sword). As mentioned earlier, in another more recent Thor comic JIM Everything Burns they have Surtur backing/manipulating the Vanir in an attack on Asgard (I think Hela is to do with this as well, but I'm getting that series next month to read when it comes out in book form).

So we may have the Vanir, plus Surtur and/or Hela's army, plus Dark Elves, plus maybe Jotunheim is in on it too, all against Asgard, Nornheim, Alfheim, and Midgard. Not sure how they are all getting around to attack these different places though. Hm. again.

Utgard-Loki says to Karnilla: " So you see Karnilla, The merest addition of shredded Ram's bladder completes the universal solvent. I should say in another centure of two-"
I laughed out loud at this because... he's talking about his magic as if it's science.

 

[American Maid]

Did you see Big Bang Theory tonight btw? Yay for girls talking about Thor and Mjolnir! LOL

Don't watch that show :/

watch the episode that aired tonight online or whatever if you can. It will make you t:

Here's the link to the show. http://www.cbs.com/shows/big_bang_theory/video/6AAACCA1-38C1-CB70-8C9B-2268EC0D6F3F/the-big-bang-theory-the-bakersfield-expedition
The specific episode is called "Bakersfield Expedition". Hopefully CBS will serve it to people accessing from outside the U.S. as well.

It's especially amusing considering CherokeeSam's and Jon's comments about how pleased they were at our reading comic books. (And I confess I have had the Hulk-wielding-Thor conversation)

And in an effort to tie this to the topic, the quote I'll cite here is "Are we talking about me or are we talking about Thor?"