Q for atheists: should we campaign?

[cerealkiller182]

I just dont care enough to campaign against God. As long as religions behave and keep their **** to themselves I dont care who they believe.

 

[Kent]

I don't really see a problem with this kind of campaign personally.
First of all it's a really soft statement, designed to get people to think and lighten up a bit.
Second of all, it's a response to another bus campaign in Britain. Said campaign used Bible-quotes and a link to a web-page where you could read, among other things, that unbelievers would burn in a lake of fire for all of eternity.

Most importantly though, I don't think we (anyone of any position on the subject of religion) should have to keep our opinions to ourselves, at least not in the sense that we should never mention them or argue for them. There's a difference between making your opinion known and forcing it on people.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Here's my question:

Why?

Why would you campaign for Atheism? You're fooling yourself if you think that it will actually make a difference and in the long run no one's eternal salvation or inifinite peace or anything is on trial by being religious.

Let them be happy and foolish and believe in a God or a demon or a Nirvana or whatever their belief's don't change anything at all so why is it so important for them to have them or not have them?

 

[huskerwebhead]

Ok I can't speak for other's faith but I can of the one I know about and here's the thing, the whole point of Christianity is to proselytize. That is, to make their beliefs known and make believers of others. By doing that they are following the tenets of their faith, they are just doing what is required of them as Christians.

There is a fine line between "proselytizing" and cramming a religion down my throat. I have no problems with someone in asking me if I'd like to read this pamphlet or if I have a second to talk about such-and-such. But the second I say "No Thank You" they should move on. Following up with "You'll burn in hell!!!" or "You need to find Jesus and SAVE YOUR SOUL!!!" pisses me off. They're just pushy salesmen at that point. Just like those ***holes in electronics departments that try and sell me the extended warranty 6 times while I am checking out. I turn into Samuel L. Jackson...Say "Extended Warranty" one more time Mother******!!!!

Atheists in essence are those who believe in nothing. What are they accomplishing by advertising that there is no god? By speaking against Christianity or whichever religion, what exactly are you trying to accomplish except to generate hate or be the real world equivalent of a troll.

Playing Devil's advocate here...So because the "book" tells them to spread the word it's OK, but since Atheists have no book they shouldn't be speaking about their beliefs?? I've seen plenty of religious signs and advertisements that are far more hate inducing that this ad campaign....by a longshot.

I feel I know what it means to be an atheist. agnosticism, that's different, many people hodl different ideas to what that means. However, small point, but isn't a lack of belief in god the same as a belief that there is NO god? "I don't believe in god" = "I believe there is no god." It's like "I don't believe the book is on the shelf" = "I believe the book is not on the shelf."

It's not so much as there is a lack of belief in God but that there is a lack of belief in a "specific" God or a specific religion's interpretation of said God. Most Agnostics believe there may be/is something out there but not the God that is described in the Bible, etc.

 

[Ugfugly]

Ok Husker, help me understand here then. My point was that there is a driving force behind a Christian trying to convert others. What's the driving force behind an atheist, who doesn't believe in the existence in a deity, trying to convert others into becoming an atheist?

Christians are convinced that non-believers will go to Hell. Their driving force is to prevent that from happening. What would an atheist's end goal be in "converting" others?

 

[Majic Walrus]

Ok Husker, help me understand here then. My point was that there is a driving force behind a Christian trying to convert others. What's the driving force behind an atheist, who doesn't believe in the existence in a deity, trying to convert others into becoming an atheist?

Christians are convinced that non-believers will go to Hell. Their driving force is to prevent that from happening. What would an atheist's end goal be in "converting" others?

Playing devil's advocate I can see that many atheists believe that atheism allows them to be altruistic. Many irreligious atheists might also posit that religious organizations are a source of unrest, hate, war, pain, suffering, and corruption. The would be justified in that belief.

 

[huskerwebhead]

Ok Husker, help me understand here then. My point was that there is a driving force behind a Christian trying to convert others. What's the driving force behind an atheist, who doesn't believe in the existence in a deity, trying to convert others into becoming an atheist?

Christians are convinced that non-believers will go to Hell. Their driving force is to prevent that from happening. What would an atheist's end goal be in "converting" others?

Playing devil's advocate I can see that many atheists believe that atheism allows them to be altruistic. Many irreligious atheists might also posit that religious organizations are a source of unrest, hate, war, pain, suffering, and corruption. The would be justified in that belief.

I'm not an Atheist myself...so I can't speak to their motives...it was simply a question to debate. Walrus, it seems, is on the right track. Working with an Atheist I know one of his biggest beefs is that he sees most Religions as simply control. The ideal behind them being positive, but it's mostly been perverted as a means of control. Thus, his driving force is to wake them up and free them from this "control." His words....

 

[Majic Walrus]

I can certainly understand that. As an atheist myself I don't really support that idea. Hoping that the world will reject religion is about as hopeful that we'll reject hate. Regardless of whether religion is an outlet for evil it doesn't change that evil is already present. There's literally no hope for a perfect world so it's best to be self-actualizing and work toward your immedate and local goals and be less concerned with the world peace and more concerned with personal peace.

 

[Kent]

Here's my question:

Why?

Why would you campaign for Atheism? You're fooling yourself if you think that it will actually make a difference

Among other things, I think it has it's place just like internet atheism and the new books on the subject written by people like Dawkins or Hitchens in generating awareness. There's a surprising amount of people who don't know what atheism really is, what attitudes it encompasses, or even that there is indeed a good amount of atheists out there.
I think these are all things that should get out there.

So, yes, I do think it makes a difference.

Let them be happy and foolish and believe in a God or a demon or a Nirvana or whatever

No one is forcing anyone. If they don't want to read the books or pay attention to the bus banners, then they don't have to.

their belief's don't change anything at all

Example: Prop8.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

The only way this can work is if violent protests are utilized.

 

[terry78]

But if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

If an athiest falls off a cliff, and no one is there to catch them, does that unholy heathen's soul burn in the fiery chasm of despair?

 

[moraldeficiency]

hehe, campaigning is for people that don't like sex.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Among other things, I think it has it's place just like internet atheism and the new books on the subject written by people like Dawkins or Hitchens in generating awareness. There's a surprising amount of people who don't know what atheism really is, what attitudes it encompasses, or even that there is indeed a good amount of atheists out there. I think these are all things that should get out there.

So, yes, I do think it makes a difference.

But campaigning is different then sharing. I've got no problems sharing my ideas with individuals who can make their own choice, but not to campaign for atheism like it's some sort of noble cause.

No one is forcing anyone. If they don't want to read the books or pay attention to the bus banners, then they don't have to.

You sound like a Christian evangelist.

Example: Prop8.

Not all atheists are enlightened individuals, just most of them. Just because we campaign for atheism isn't the same as campaigning for our political ideas. If you seek political change then you should campaign for those things. Against prop8 for example. Not against God. The first will reap much larger rewards than the second.

 

[The Spawn]

This is 10x better than the religion thread...there should be an anti religion thread...I just can't think of a name for it.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Uh, no.

That's like saying a painting doesn't exist unless you have eyes.

Images are generated by light bouncing off objects. Sounds are generated by the waves reaching your eardrums and being turned into audible noises.

I mean, a science professor told me this... I think I'll take his word over yours.

 

[The Battousai]

Images are generated by light bouncing off objects. Sounds are generated by the waves reaching your eardrums and being turned into audible noises.

I mean, a science professor told me this... I think I'll take his word over yours.

While you are describing one of the definitions of sound, you're missing the basic physics of it entirely.

sound: noun

1 a: a particular auditory impression : tone b: the sensation perceived by the sense of hearing c: mechanical radiant energy that is transmitted by longitudinal pressure waves in a material medium (as air) and is the objective cause of hearing

The sound waves are vibrating the medium (air) and causing sound regardless of whether or not someone can audibly hear it.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

While you are describing one of the definitions of sound, you're missing the basic physics of it entirely.

sound: noun

1 a: a particular auditory impression : tone b: the sensation perceived by the sense of hearing c: mechanical radiant energy that is transmitted by longitudinal pressure waves in a material medium (as air) and is the objective cause of hearing

The sound waves are vibrating the medium (air) and causing sound regardless of whether or not someone can audibly hear it.

"According to Merriam-Webster, sound is the sensation perceived by the sense of hearing. So that means that vibrating air is just that, mechanical vibrations of air molecules. When those vibrations are perceived by the sense of hearing, then they become a sensation; the sensation of sound. That is why we have an auditory cortex in the neocortex of the brain that interprets those vibrations as a tree falling, a bird singing, or the wind whistling through the leaves.

Here is an example: If you never heard a tree fall as it crashed to the ground and you were standing in the woods blindfolded as one fell, you would hear noise. The noise would be the vibrations in the air of the tree hitting the ground. Most likely you would hear something, but you would not know what it was. But, if you had heard enough similar noises before, your brain would then be able to identify the vibrations as being produced by a tree falling. Then it would be a sound.
So, going by the Merriam-Webster definition, the tree would make air molecules vibrate, but would not make a 'sound' if it fell in the woods and nobody was there to hear it."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/If_a_tree...one_is_around_to_hear_it_does_it_make_a_sound

Basically saying, there's no doubt that there's sound waves in this event. But for those waves to be turned into actual SOUND, perceptors have to be present to do it.

 

[Addendum]

Regarding this campaign, I don't think it's trying to "convert" anyone or make anyone give up their belief in any god-claim. It's just another way of saying "lighten the f*** up"

 

[michephantom]

This is 10x better than the religion thread...there should be an anti religion thread...I just can't think of a name for it.

The problem with an anti-religion thread is it will probably be just like the religion thread- two differing sides beating their heads against a wall. We should have a head beating wall smilie.

 

[The Battousai]

"According to Merriam-Webster, sound is the sensation perceived by the sense of hearing. So that means that vibrating air is just that, mechanical vibrations of air molecules. When those vibrations are perceived by the sense of hearing, then they become a sensation; the sensation of sound. That is why we have an auditory cortex in the neocortex of the brain that interprets those vibrations as a tree falling, a bird singing, or the wind whistling through the leaves.

Here is an example: If you never heard a tree fall as it crashed to the ground and you were standing in the woods blindfolded as one fell, you would hear noise. The noise would be the vibrations in the air of the tree hitting the ground. Most likely you would hear something, but you would not know what it was. But, if you had heard enough similar noises before, your brain would then be able to identify the vibrations as being produced by a tree falling. Then it would be a sound.
So, going by the Merriam-Webster definition, the tree would make air molecules vibrate, but would not make a 'sound' if it fell in the woods and nobody was there to hear it."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/If_a_tree...one_is_around_to_hear_it_does_it_make_a_sound

Basically saying, there's no doubt that there's sound waves in this event. But for those waves to be turned into actual SOUND, perceptors have to be present to do it.

So it's a semantics game - terrific

 

[huskerwebhead]

Images are generated by light bouncing off objects. Sounds are generated by the waves reaching your eardrums and being turned into audible noises.

I mean, a science professor told me this... I think I'll take his word over yours.

But then, if there are no eyes (specifically the rods and cones in the eye) to interpret that light bouncing off the painting....does it exist? Does the color exist?

 

[Cunning Stunts]

So it's a semantics game - terrific

If that's what you want to call it, go for it. But no, it's not.

There's a distinct difference between sound waves and sound. If you don't want to accept the fact that you were wrong, you don't have to. It's only the internet, so I'm not going to push any further to try to convince you, since you likely wouldn't listen regardless.

 

[Spider-X]

as long as religions behave and keep their **** to themselves i dont care who they believe.

qft

 

[Star]

Sometimes, when I'm ranting about how much I am against organized religion, I feel a little bit wrong.

I feel like I'm becoming what I hate, someone who preaches their beliefs

 

[Spider-X]

The idea of Atheists campaigning is just as stupid as people handing out bibles.

If you are pushing your beliefs on someone (even if those believes are the absences of biblical beliefs) are you the exact same as those pushing their religious beliefs on people.

No, I don't want to be "saved" and no i don't want to "follow your way of things"...i don't care. I've come to my own conclusions based on the things I've experienced in life and will continue to do so. When i see someone heal a blind person then I'll start thinking Christianity may be on to something...but until than, unless I come to you wanting to know something...I don't care who you are, just shut up and leave me, and others, alone.

The. End.