Question for Atheists

[Bill]

to get back on topic. yes it is perfectly fine for an atheist to take part in all holidays (religous or not). But You are still not really ceberating the REAL holiday. That is the point I am tring to make. You can have your X-Mas but without Christ you can't have Christmas. You can have you celebration of spring with egg hunts, but without Christ it just isn't Easter.

Get mad at me all you want. I know what you all are saying but you don't seem to understand me. I am not being closed minded in the least. I am saying that although you may think you are celebrating the holiday, you are not celebrating the reason it started. If Jesus was never born would we have Christmas today? Or if no one would have followed him and his teachings would we have Christmas? How about if he never rose from the dead, would there be an Easter? Do you see my point? I think somewhere deep down you want to believe in him and follow him. It is foolish pride that stops you.

You're in the wrong thread, Bubba. Go here.

 

[Symbiote Hulk]

On a related note: My aunty's atheist. SHe's married to a catholic. My four cousins aren't baptised. They still go to church but they'll choose when there 18 if they want to get baptised or not. They get along fine with themselves and with us. We still always invite them to our Christmas, Easter etc. parties. I think my unlcle asked her once if she wanted to join the catholic church. She said no, she explained why and he was ok with that. They've been married for over 20 years now. No marriage problems. The point is, you guys are ALL acting like juveniles. Quit arguing and accept other people for who they are, and what they do and don't believe them. Jeez!

 

[batnkevlar]

Did anyone mention that shepherds don't herd in the winter time? Or something to that degree...

anyways, under all the thought processes and such, I can't believe in a dogmatic Christian God for one thing and one thing only:

A loving and caring God would never send my mother to Hell because she's Buddhist... and if that's true, i'll go to Hell with her...

 

[squeekness]

Did anyone mention that shepherds don't herd in the winter time? Or something to that degree...

anyways, under all the thought processes and such, I can't believe in a dogmatic Christian God for one thing and one thing only:

A loving and caring God would never send my mother to Hell because she's Buddhist... and if that's true, i'll go to Hell with her...

Not all Christians feel this way. I certainly don't. If that makes me a bad Christian, then so be it.

 

[batnkevlar]

Exactly... my dad's Christian, and he believe good people go to Heaven and bad people go to Hell... but yeah, most Christians believe you have to believe in God to go to Heaven, whether or not you've been good or bad...

 

[squeekness]

Buddists don't believe in a creator of some kind?

 

[JinnSato]

Ah. Who cares if someone is atheist or not. I'm a devote Christian but I'm not going to question someones way. Sure I might not like the fact that you don't believe in anything and I may try to get you to change your ways. (And I have before.) but people need to get along no matter the religion.

 

[squeekness]

I like the idea that you are judged by your behavior. It does no good to say you believe in Christ but then act like an idiot. Conversion should be reflected in the behavior of the individual. I fail to see why God would fry a decent, kind and loving Buddist. They are so passive and loving.

 

[Superhobo]

Buddists don't believe in a creator of some kind?

Well, it's a common misconception that they worship the Buddha Siddartha Gautama, but that's not true. In Buddhism, the Supreme Creator of the universe isn't a deity, but a series of causes and conditions that are obscured by time. It's certain Mahayana Sutras that give the idea to see Buddha as an omniscient godlike presence.

 

[Addendum]

Ah. Who cares if someone is atheist or not. I'm a devote Christian but I'm not going to question someones way. Sure I might not like the fact that you don't believe in anything and I may try to get you to change your ways. (And I have before.) but people need to get along no matter the religion.

But how does someone's non-belief affect your belief?

 

[squeekness]

Well, it's a common misconception that they worship the Buddha Siddartha Gautama, but that's not true. In Buddhism, the Supreme Creator of the universe isn't a deity, but a series of causes and conditions that are obscured by time. It's certain Mahayana Sutras that give the idea to see Buddha as an omniscient godlike presence.

Okay. I was just asking because there are some folks who do believe in a sort of creator, even if they do not call him God. I wasn't sure of Buddists were one of those.

 

[batnkevlar]

I believe in the universe, and science, but i don't wanna believe everything is random...

 

[Superhobo]

Think of it as 'improvisational sequence.'

 

[Ring Deacon]

Actually all it takes to get into heaven is to repent for your sins. Even a mass murderer can go to heaven if he repents for his sins and asks for forgiveness. That is what a loving God does. That is what my God does. In a sense an atheist could repent on his death bed and still go to heaven. But as for me I would rather not take that chance.

Am I perfect? heck no! In fact I was an atheist from the age of 13 till I was 27. And wasn't baptized till I was 32, but I have been trying to change my life for the better. I see now that God is very real.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

I believe in the universe, and science, but i don't wanna believe everything is random...

why not.
how would it affect you? that would actually be up to you.....

 

[Superhobo]

Actually all it takes to get into heaven is to repent for your sins. Even a mass murderer can go to heaven if he repents for his sins and asks for forgiveness. That is what a loving God does. That is what my God does. In a sense an atheist could repent on his death bed and still go to heaven. But as for me I would rather not take that chance.

Am I perfect? heck no! In fact I was an atheist from the age of 13 till I was 27. And wasn't baptized till I was 32, but I have been trying to change my life for the better. I see now that God is very real.

I want you to listen to me very, very carefully. EVERYTHING that both you and moviefan say (though admittedly, he's worse than you) I've heard thousands of times before, and so has everyone else. Putting 'actually' at the top of your post, and let me say I have no prior ill will towards you, makes me want to conduct a scientific experiment with your head and a very sharp rock.

You're both saying things that we already have heard, that we already understand that you guys believe. It's like you're stuck on a broken record that keeps going 'Repent...repent...repent..." we get that, man. Say something new already, for chrissake.


And, moviefan, to you, I ask this: do you think that Ghandi went to hell, as a Hindu?

 

[Ring Deacon]

And, moviefan, to you, I ask this: do you think that Ghandi went to hell, as a Hindu?

Not to that I know how he will answer, but IMO it all depends on what him and God said to each other at the time of his death. It sounds weird even unbelieveable to an Atheist, but when you die you get judged for the life you lived. So if in the presence of God Ghandi said "I don't believe in you" then he went to Hell, but if moved by the presence of God he would go to Heaven. Once again ( I know broken record ) it all comes down to faith, you either have it or not.

You want Christians to tell you something different, but you fail to understand there is nothing different to tell. To a Christian, God is truth and there is only one truth. I can see where this can upset because as an Atheist you have millions of different scientific therories to go by and that makes you feel better. But with millions of therories none of which are the same, isn't that a bit confusing? I would rather have one truth then a million therories.

You can say what you will about what you believe compared to myself, but you can still find no fault in our beliefs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having faith in a loving God and trying to live by his son's example. Even if you try to find fault with it it would be unfounded. Now if you were talking about Radical Islamic Fundamentalists that believe in killing all non - Muslims and by doing so you go to Heaven then there is a problem. And I am not saying that all Muslims are like this because they are not. But if a group of ANY religon promotes killing people because they are different, then that group is at fault not the whole faith.

So you can say what you will about reasons to be an Atheist, but you can't find a reason to say being Christian is a bad thing to do.

Oh and I think everyone will find this funny. At my a local church a pastor and an Atheist had a debate. The debate was going well and to everyone's surprise the Atheist was winning, but in a surpising twist the Pastor won the debate when the Atheist ( in his closing arguement ) said "THANK GOD I AM AN ATHEIST". t:

 

[squeekness]

^^LOLs.

 

[Dark Carnage]

the Pastor won the debate when the Atheist ( in his closing arguement ) said "THANK GOD I AM AN ATHEIST".

That's not a win on the Pastor's part, but an intentionally ironic statement by the Atheist.

Even if it wasn't intentional, it still doesn't mean a thing. I still say "Oh my God" and "Jesus Christ" in response to surprises, doesn't mean I believe God exists or that Jesus really was divine. All it means is that it's an expression that's become so popular in everyday language that most people use without dependence on their faith or lack there of.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Not to that I know how he will answer, but IMO it all depends on what him and God said to each other at the time of his death. It sounds weird even unbelieveable to an Atheist, but when you die you get judged for the life you lived. So if in the presence of God Ghandi said "I don't believe in you" then he went to Hell, but if moved by the presence of God he would go to Heaven. Once again ( I know broken record ) it all comes down to faith, you either have it or not.

You want Christians to tell you something different, but you fail to understand there is nothing different to tell. To a Christian, God is truth and there is only one truth. I can see where this can upset because as an Atheist you have millions of different scientific therories to go by and that makes you feel better. But with millions of therories none of which are the same, isn't that a bit confusing? I would rather have one truth then a million therories.

You can say what you will about what you believe compared to myself, but you can still find no fault in our beliefs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having faith in a loving God and trying to live by his son's example. Even if you try to find fault with it it would be unfounded. Now if you were talking about Radical Islamic Fundamentalists that believe in killing all non - Muslims and by doing so you go to Heaven then there is a problem. And I am not saying that all Muslims are like this because they are not. But if a group of ANY religon promotes killing people because they are different, then that group is at fault not the whole faith.

So you can say what you will about reasons to be an Atheist, but you can't find a reason to say being Christian is a bad thing to do.

Oh and I think everyone will find this funny. At my a local church a pastor and an Atheist had a debate. The debate was going well and to everyone's surprise the Atheist was winning, but in a surpising twist the Pastor won the debate when the Atheist ( in his closing arguement ) said "THANK GOD I AM AN ATHEIST". t:

Nice response Deacon; there's no way I could have worded it any better. I like the joke at the end, too.

To reiterate the main point of your post, the kicker is the above statement: "There is nothing different to tell". God, His Son, and His Word don't change; we do. God knows how to work with the various changes of His people, but as for Himself, He never changes. Hebrews 13:8 states it simply: "Jesus Christ (and therefore God by inclusion) is the same, yesterday, today, and forever." Believe or reject Him all you want, but it'll never change the Truth.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Nice response Deacon; there's no way I could have worded it any better. I like the joke at the end, too.

To reiterate the main point of your post, the kicker is the above statement: "There is nothing different to tell". God, His Son, and His Word don't change; we do. God knows how to work with the various changes of His people, but as for Himself, He never changes. Hebrews 13:8 states it simply: "Jesus Christ (and therefore God by inclusion) is the same, yesterday, today, and forever." Believe or reject Him all you want, but it'll never change the Truth.

Thank You.
ExActly.

That's why I've always been bugged by this crap where you bring up all the hideous, unspeakably sadistic atrocities committed by God in the Old Testament....how he commanded rape victims to be put to death if they didn't scream during the attack, and commanded rape victims to marry their rapists, and said that a woman's hand should be cut off "without pity" if her hand accidentally brushed against a man's genitals during a fight, and.....I could go on for hours....and Christians say, "
Mmm, well....that doesn't count because Jesus came and he was peaceful."

Balogna! He's the exact same guy who did all those unspeakable things.
There's no way I'd worship a baby-killer, just because he USED to kill babies but now he's stopped!!!

 

[Superhobo]

See, when did I ever say there was anything wrong with being a Christian, in itself? All I've done is ask you moral questions involving what you as you believe, and that dastardly book itself, The Bible. And, yes, you're right, Ring, it is easier to believe in a god and subscribe yourself to it than to actually THINK. But, that's not what I want to do. It may be what you want to do, and more power to ya.

Wilhelm raises a great point, and one that shares my point of view.

 

[Addendum]

You want Christians to tell you something different, but you fail to understand there is nothing different to tell. To a Christian, God is truth and there is only one truth. I can see where this can upset because as an Atheist you have millions of different scientific theories to go by and that makes you feel better. But with millions of theories none of which are the same, isn't that a bit confusing? I would rather have one truth then a million theories.

The theories aren't confusing. When figuring out the velocity of a falling object, the theory of gravity is in play. However, for a biologist, the theory of evolution is useful for their field.

As for myself, science was dull until I got to the chemistry lab and was shortly kicked out of it for various explosions. And the astronomy books do have killer pictures of the planets, supernovas, the multitude of nebulas and galaxies.

But I don't use science as a means to find meaning in life. That's not the point of science. What science does is attempt to explain how things work, or at least how we humans can understand them based on our understanding and the information at hand. When new data becomes available, the theories are either thrown out all-together or updated.

 

[doc ock rules!]

What would it take for you to change your beliefs?

I myself am an atheist, technically because my disbelief is based on science and reasoning i'm an agnostic, but when i tell people i'm an agnostic they assume that i'm either a fence sitter or i haven't given the issue much thought, which i have.

I've asked this question to atheists because most religious people are closed minded whereas most atheists have rational thought out reasons for their disbelief. But if you have a religious belief feel free to chime in with what it would take you to change your mind

Here's a good starting point for what it would take me to change my view points. (i'm lazy i stole this.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqUsC2KsiI

Well, since I was originally a Catholic, I'll tell you about why I changed my beliefs to become an atheist (Well, mostly atheist. I will admit there is a possibility for a God. I suppose that makes me technically agnostic? Meh, forget about semantics.).

Anyway, when I was a kid, one of the things I was first taught about was God. In fact, no one ever seemed to dispute the existence of it ever. I thought there was a God for no other reason than that I was only ever told about Catholicism. I didn't even know about other denominations of Christianity. I went through baptism and communion (In each, I had absolutely NO IDEA what I was doing or what was happening. In fact, at my baptism, I wanted to punch the guy in charge of my baptism for "playfully throwing water on me.").

But then as I got older, I started to notice my discomfort and disinterest with religion and God. I didn't know if it was right or not, but I didn't even know that a disbelief in God existed. Eventually, I also noticed this about my parents. I was curious for a time about what was happening to my mind until I eventually heard about the idea of atheism. The idea was so strange, I discredited at first. But the more I thought about it, the more uncomfortable I was believing. Conversely, the further from God I felt, the more fearful I got of burning in Hell.

Then, one day, I decided I didn't care anymore about what God could inflict on me or whatnot and went with what I felt was right. Eventually, once I was free of this, I made the concious decision to come as close to realizing the objective truth as possible in all things, including my belief set. For me, this means science- testable and verifiable proof.

As for getting me to change my beliefs now? Very little, I think. Most of what was posted in you video I'd agree with as signs of proof. I'd also take any scientific evidence as proof (though, there would have to be several pieces of proof given before I'd accept it).

 

[Mike_D202]

Too many movies with assassin priests from the vatican