Question for Atheists

psychocheeseman

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What would it take for you to change your beliefs?

I myself am an atheist, technically because my disbelief is based on science and reasoning i'm an agnostic, but when i tell people i'm an agnostic they assume that i'm either a fence sitter or i haven't given the issue much thought, which i have.

I've asked this question to atheists because most religious people are closed minded whereas most atheists have rational thought out reasons for their disbelief. But if you have a religious belief feel free to chime in with what it would take you to change your mind

Here's a good starting point for what it would take me to change my view points. (i'm lazy i stole this.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqUsC2KsiI

 
Dude. No more religious stuff. Please? It's fun and all, but it's starting to get that whenever I see the words 'agnostic' and 'god' together in a post, the nails get screeching.
 
That's about Christmas and whether Athiests and agnostics should celebrate it or not.
 
psychocheeseman said:
What would it take for you to change your beliefs?

For jesus to appear before them and spank them and say "Is jesus gonna have to slap a b*tch?!"

That'll probably convince em.
 
I'm a born-again Christian, but here's my testimony, so you'll know why I made the choice myself.

I was raised in a strict "turn or burn" religious environment. By the time I was thirteen, I was seriously questioning a lot of things (I kept going to church mostly to see the few friends I had, not necessarily because of any real interest in God). My father had left before I was born, and my mother was a borderline workaholic, so I was raised primarily by my aunt and uncle.

By sixteen, I was battling lust issues, and by 18 it was an extremely-intense emotional, mental, and (as I would later realize) spiritual war. I wound up in a homeless shelter, about 6 months before my 21st birthday. It was there that I fell in love with a woman also at the shelter. About two months later, she married another man whom she met there, and within a couple months of that, she believed him to be cheating on her. So, she came to see me, and a few days later, I moved in with her to a hotel room. I gave up my virginity through outright adultery, all because I was desperate to be loved. Six days later, her husband returned, and I was left alone...again. It hurt worse than anything else before or since.

In my anger, I raged against God, screaming into the darkness that night: "If this is the price for love...if this is the price for You or faith, then I want nothing to do with any of it! Leave me alone!!!" For the better part of the next year, my life was a steadfast nightmare. My ex came back to Texas from Pennsylvania, and we made another go-round as a couple, before unresolved tensions over the past caused us to break up again. She fell for and ran away with yet another man to Georgia. I was angry, hurt, and extremely heartbroken. I'd given up everything I really cared about, and had nothing to show for it but despair and loneliness. I re-embraced Christ, and over the last few years, things have been difficult, but I'm still keeping the faith. I stumbled once more with my ex over a year ago, but have since repented, and I know that God has truly forgiven me. I got briefly into smoking and drinking, and am proud to say I haven't been drunk in a year.

My life had become corrupted by hatred, lust, adultery, fornication, alcohol, and so much heartbreak; the memories still flash back some days. God was able to lift me up, out of what I'd allowed myself to become. I was suicidal; it was that bad. The only reason I didn't go through with it was because I distinctively heard a still voice, like an audible whisper: "Put down the knife. This isn't the way. Put it down." I asked why, and was instantly flooded with what I can only describe as a vision. My ex was sitting in a cemetery, and my name was on the tombstone in front of her. Through her tears, the only thing I could understand was, "Why did you do this? Was it because of me?"

God can use anything for His Kingdom, and He knew how real my love for this woman really was, even if the actions resulting from it were wrong. He showed me what would happen if I took my own life, and so I dropped the blade, and made the choice to live. If God can save me from my own foolishness and redeem me of my past, then surely He can do the same for anyone who's willing to trust Him...all it takes is a brief moment, and your life is changed forever. Trusting God more than myself is rarely easy, but I love what Steve Harvey once said about faith: "You may not be where you want to be, but you can sure be thankful you ain't where ya was, though."
 
He said it. He actually said it.

Dude, I don't mean to ridicule your story of 'personal triumph' or whatever, but I was waiting, ACTUALLY WAITING, for you to say you had a 'vision!' I knew it! I knew it I knew it I knew it!

:woot: :woot: :woot:
 
I was granted one, but only that time, and I believe it was real. If it wasn't, I wouldn't be sitting here right now. God gave me a new life, and many more chances than I could ever deserve. He will do the same for anyone; all they have to do is call out to Him, recognizing they need a Savior, and God will make them whole. My glimpse may have started the whole thing, but it hasn't increased my faith on its own. My faith comes from knowing that I've been rescued from that fate, and it's not anything I'd have been able to do by myself.
 
I'm a born-again Christian, but here's my testimony, so you'll know why I made the choice myself.

I was raised in a strict "turn or burn" religious environment. By the time I was thirteen, I was seriously questioning a lot of things (I kept going to church mostly to see the few friends I had, not necessarily because of any real interest in God). My father had left before I was born, and my mother was a borderline workaholic, so I was raised primarily by my aunt and uncle.

I can see where this is going, I can see it in the distance...

By sixteen, I was battling lust issues, and by 18 it was an extremely-intense emotional, mental, and (as I would later realize) spiritual war.

wow, a confused, horny teenager?
man, that's sooooo rare, it's not like EVERYONE has to deal with these issues right?
nah, that would be too simple.
I like however , how you "later realized" that this was spiritual turmoil.
I'm sure you "realized" this because

A) you were told.
B) you justified these issues as outside yourself.

either one will work.


I wound up in a homeless shelter, about 6 months before my 21st birthday. It was there that I fell in love with a woman also at the shelter. About two months later, she married another man whom she met there, and within a couple months of that, she believed him to be cheating on her. So, she came to see me, and a few days later, I moved in with her to a hotel room.

...:dry:
:dry::dry::dry:
...:dry:
...:dry:
...:dry:



I gave up my virginity through outright adultery, all because I was desperate to be loved.

no, you were desperate to get laid.
because God made you that way...
because that was his "intelligent design"

Six days later, her husband returned, and I was left alone...again. It hurt worse than anything else before or since.

what the hell?
something tells me, you gotz problems even Jesus can't fix dude.

In my anger, I raged against God, screaming into the darkness that night: "If this is the price for love...if this is the price for You or faith, then I want nothing to do with any of it! Leave me alone!!!"

ah yes, here it is.
what exactly does your girl/de-virginizer have to do with god or faith?
why did you "rage against god" for that? shouldn't you be angry against her? or at least against yourself?
something tells me this blame displacement is going to be a key role in the rest of your life.


For the better part of the next year, my life was a steadfast nightmare. My ex came back to Texas from Pennsylvania, and we made another go-round as a couple, before unresolved tensions over the past caused us to break up again. She fell for and ran away with yet another man to Georgia.

see?
you act as if you had no choice but to take back this woman that was obviously going to hurt you.
why do people think that they can convince me to love the ever-floating-lord of the sky with their tales of unrepentant idiocy?
why oh why?



I was angry, hurt, and extremely heartbroken. I'd given up everything I really cared about, and had nothing to show for it but despair and loneliness.

yeah, it's not like you can get comfort through friends or fulfillment through honest work or hobbies.
it's either Jesus, Shelter skanks or nothing!


I re-embraced Christ,

I'm sure it was awkward for you both.


and over the last few years, things have been difficult, but I'm still keeping the faith. I stumbled once more with my ex over a year ago, but have since repented, and I know that God has truly forgiven me. I got briefly into smoking and drinking, and am proud to say I haven't been drunk in a year.

by stumbled you mean "slept with" seriously dude.....seriously

My life had become corrupted by hatred, lust, adultery, fornication, alcohol, and so much heartbreak; the memories still flash back some days. God was able to lift me up, out of what I'd allowed myself to become.

yeah, you deserve no credit for anything.
remember the formula.

anything good happens in your life = jesus
anything bad happens in your life = not jesus

pretty handy really.


I was suicidal; it was that bad. The only reason I didn't go through with it was because I distinctively heard a still voice, like an audible whisper: "Put down the knife. This isn't the way. Put it down." I asked why, and was instantly flooded with what I can only describe as a vision. My ex was sitting in a cemetery, and my name was on the tombstone in front of her. Through her tears, the only thing I could understand was, "Why did you do this? Was it because of me?"

LOL, I'm sorry dude, but you were going to "commit suicide"with a knife.
that alone tells me there's some severe issues. ( plus a lack of planning skils) and, do you notice that you had a vision about your EX?
OBSESS MUCH?
Jeeeesus, let the woman go dude!

God can use anything for His Kingdom, and He knew how real my love for this woman really was, even if the actions resulting from it were wrong. He showed me what would happen if I took my own life, and so I dropped the blade, and made the choice to live. If God can save me from my own foolishness and redeem me of my past, then surely He can do the same for anyone who's willing to trust Him...all it takes is a brief moment, and your life is changed forever. Trusting God more than myself is rarely easy, but I love what Steve Harvey once said about faith: "You may not be where you want to be, but you can sure be thankful you ain't where ya was, though."

okay, now that you heard this.
anyone out there have problems?
okay that's bad.
but guess what?
Jesus won't help you, no religion will because they are in the realm of the SOUL, to think that if you have a problem with your girl and Jesus will show you forgiveness and shower you with love and attention while some fireman dude has to have an arm amputated?
yeah, no, **** you you conceited *******.
what makes you so deserving of attention over starving dying children?
what makes you so deserving of forgiveness over innocents suffering daily?

NO.
it's madness I say.

if you want to make your life better, do it, and that's it.
 
In my anger, I raged against God, screaming into the darkness that night: "If this is the price for love...if this is the price for You or faith, then I want nothing to do with any of it! Leave me alone!!!

I don't see the logic in you blaming God at this juncture, assuming for a moment that there is a god, how was your romantic disaster his fault?

As for the rest of your post, although interesting, it didn't really go to the heart of the matter of this thread.

The point of this thread was to examine what level of proof people would require in order to change their opinions or beliefs. it can be as ludicrus as you like, for example, if you had a time machine and went back and followed jesus around and he didn't do what is claimed or if god spoke to you and told you he didn't exist. That kinda thing is fine.

Perhaps you could enlighten us with what level of proof it would take for you to re assess your beliefs?
 
I'm a born-again Christian, but here's my testimony, so you'll know why I made the choice myself.

I was raised in a strict "turn or burn" religious environment. By the time I was thirteen, I was seriously questioning a lot of things (I kept going to church mostly to see the few friends I had, not necessarily because of any real interest in God). My father had left before I was born, and my mother was a borderline workaholic, so I was raised primarily by my aunt and uncle.

By sixteen, I was battling lust issues, and by 18 it was an extremely-intense emotional, mental, and (as I would later realize) spiritual war. I wound up in a homeless shelter, about 6 months before my 21st birthday. It was there that I fell in love with a woman also at the shelter. About two months later, she married another man whom she met there, and within a couple months of that, she believed him to be cheating on her. So, she came to see me, and a few days later, I moved in with her to a hotel room. I gave up my virginity through outright adultery, all because I was desperate to be loved. Six days later, her husband returned, and I was left alone...again. It hurt worse than anything else before or since.

In my anger, I raged against God, screaming into the darkness that night: "If this is the price for love...if this is the price for You or faith, then I want nothing to do with any of it! Leave me alone!!!" For the better part of the next year, my life was a steadfast nightmare. My ex came back to Texas from Pennsylvania, and we made another go-round as a couple, before unresolved tensions over the past caused us to break up again. She fell for and ran away with yet another man to Georgia. I was angry, hurt, and extremely heartbroken. I'd given up everything I really cared about, and had nothing to show for it but despair and loneliness. I re-embraced Christ, and over the last few years, things have been difficult, but I'm still keeping the faith. I stumbled once more with my ex over a year ago, but have since repented, and I know that God has truly forgiven me. I got briefly into smoking and drinking, and am proud to say I haven't been drunk in a year.

My life had become corrupted by hatred, lust, adultery, fornication, alcohol, and so much heartbreak; the memories still flash back some days. God was able to lift me up, out of what I'd allowed myself to become. I was suicidal; it was that bad. The only reason I didn't go through with it was because I distinctively heard a still voice, like an audible whisper: "Put down the knife. This isn't the way. Put it down." I asked why, and was instantly flooded with what I can only describe as a vision. My ex was sitting in a cemetery, and my name was on the tombstone in front of her. Through her tears, the only thing I could understand was, "Why did you do this? Was it because of me?"

God can use anything for His Kingdom, and He knew how real my love for this woman really was, even if the actions resulting from it were wrong. He showed me what would happen if I took my own life, and so I dropped the blade, and made the choice to live. If God can save me from my own foolishness and redeem me of my past, then surely He can do the same for anyone who's willing to trust Him...all it takes is a brief moment, and your life is changed forever. Trusting God more than myself is rarely easy, but I love what Steve Harvey once said about faith: "You may not be where you want to be, but you can sure be thankful you ain't where ya was, though."

I believe you.

And I think all the atheists have it backwards, christians embrace their faith out of love, while atheists shy away from it out of fear, they want to be able to live their life how they want with no accountablity, and they don't want to listen. They throw up the scientific reasoning and evidence umbrella to make sure they are not actually getting the message. I find it harder and harder everyday to stop caring for these people.
 
i don't know what would make me believe . honestly , deep down inside of me i really , REALLY want to believe that there is a god up in the sky that loves me and all that , but ..... whenever i ask christians to give me some ****ing proof , they seem to be unable to , and instead give me answers like " the bible is the truth " or " you just have to believe " . :huh: well , if it's the truth , then you should have no ****ing problem with HAVING SOME PROOF!!!!!! :cmad:
 
i don't know what would make me believe . honestly , deep down inside of me i really , REALLY want to believe that there is a god up in the sky that loves me and all that , but ..... whenever i ask christians to give me some ****ing proof , they seem to be unable to , and instead give me answers like " the bible is the truth " or " you just have to believe " . :huh: well , if it's the truth , then you should have no ****ing problem with HAVING SOME PROOF!!!!!! :cmad:

There is no proof to find, you have to have an experience that affects you deep, one that pushes you to the end of your rope and when you think you are done, when you are ready to give up then you realize its a test you never know how strong you are or can be until you have been tested.
 
Someone mentioned something about firefighters, I am a firefighter, and I too really, really, want to believe that there is a god, that things happen for a reason, all that. But the more and more time I work, the more things I see, the more it doesn't make sense. If there is a reason to hearing people burn alive but not being able to get to them, then I'd like to know what it is. I'd like to know where that fits in the plan.

I have tried but there comes a point where when you just know, I have listened my entire life to these stories and I've had a lot more than one experience that has pushed me to the end of my rope. We are alone.
 
Someone mentioned something about firefighters, I am a firefighter, and I too really, really, want to believe that there is a god, that things happen for a reason, all that. But the more and more time I work, the more things I see, the more it doesn't make sense. If there is a reason to hearing people burn alive but not being able to get to them, then I'd like to know what it is. I'd like to know where that fits in the plan.

I have tried but there comes a point where when you just know, I have listened my entire life to these stories and I've had a lot more than one experience that has pushed me to the end of my rope. We are alone.

Your a Firefighter, I work as a dispatcher in a police dept. so I have had more than my share of hectic calls screaming for ambulances, fire trucks, or police officers and I see where you are trying to go but I am not buying it, if you had been pushed to the end of your rope why haven't you given up what has given you the strength to keep going?

Oh and before you say there is a difference between hearing it over the phone and in person, know this my experience has nothing to do with strangers calling it was watching someone I truly cared for die right before my eyes alone. I blamed the police dept at the time for not getting the ambulance there quick enough, blamed the ambulance for taking so long blamed the hospital for not saving him, and blamed god for taking him, then I realized that my placing blame was wrong that I blamed all these people and god because I was unconvinced at the time there was a god and was afraid that if there was my father was burning, I couldn't take comfort like some that there isn't he just faded away, my father was the strongest man I have ever known and to think he would just fade away was something I could not except and to this day cannot. I lived with that anger for several months blaming everyone letting anger rule my life, and it took a bad storm to bring me out of it, I don't care if anyone believes me or not, but I know I heard my fathers voice clear as day tell me to stop moving and it saved my life.
 
2yvqbn67kzxh2.gif


I'm borderline agnostic...It's kinda hard for me since every single person in my family goes to church, most of the times on a regular basis.

-TNC
 
I'm borderline agnostic...It's kinda hard for me since every single person in my family goes to church, most of the times on a regular basis.

-TNC

I sympathize with you, I don't attend church anymore mostly because I have lost faith in the action of going to church.

I have faith and believe in god but I refuse to believe that only people who go to church are faithful. I am sickened by the way the people in my hometown treat the church as their safeground, they will drive around town and talk to people but they dont put any effort into witnessing or attempting to share their beliefs they sit in a building all morning listen to the pastor go home. I would rather sit at home and read the bible on my own time.
 
Your a Firefighter, I work as a dispatcher in a police dept. so I have had more than my share of hectic calls screaming for ambulances, fire trucks, or police officers and I see where you are trying to go but I am not buying it, if you had been pushed to the end of your rope why haven't you given up what has given you the strength to keep going?

You think atheists or agnostics just give up on life or what they do just because that was your initial reaction? The reason why I don't give up is the same reason why I became a firefighter, and that simply is I want to help people. Just because I don't have your belief in a god, doesn't make me weaker. It doesn't make me want to give up on life, thats ridiculous. I have my own purpose, and that is the one I set out for myself and thats why I became a firefighter.
 
You think atheists or agnostics just give up on life or what they do just because that was your initial reaction? The reason why I don't give up is the same reason why I became a firefighter, and that simply is I want to help people. Just because I don't have your belief in a god, doesn't make me weaker. It doesn't make me want to give up on life, thats ridiculous. I have my own purpose, and that is the one I set out for myself and thats why I became a firefighter.

I wasn't trying to say you or anyone is weaker because of their beliefs or non beliefs, I mostly just want to understand it, I can't comprhend it, this spreading belief that when we die thats it. I mean It feels to me like people are just wanting to live their life their own way. and I respect you for being a firefighter. I mostly want to understand this because my brother has recently in the last two weeks informed me he is an atheist and he can't explain it to me, he can't provide me with proof that their is no god anymore than I can provide him with proof their is, but I thank god everyday because he was in the shower and did not watch our father have a massive heart attack in our living room, he wasn't there he didn't feel my fathers dead body fall on him, the way I did.

I also believe that god puts on us only what he thinks we can handle.
 
If I had to categorize myself, I guess would say I'm an agnostic. I don't know what happens when we die. I don't really care about religion anymore one way or the other. Some people need religion in their life, something that provides them with hope or whatever it is they get out of it, and I don't think of them any less than someone who does not. The easiest way for me to explain how I feel is that I don't need that. I'm not confused, I'm not "lost". I just don't need that stuff anymore.
 
If I had to categorize myself, I guess would say I'm an agnostic. I don't know what happens when we die. I don't really care about religion anymore one way or the other. Some people need religion in their life, something that provides them with hope or whatever it is they get out of it, and I don't think of them any less than someone who does not. The easiest way for me to explain how I feel is that I don't need that. I'm not confused, I'm not "lost". I just don't need that stuff anymore.

My brother told me he was agnostic for a year, then like I said two weeks ago he came out and said he was atheist, and that he didn't tell us because he knew how upset we would be, he wanted us to have hope that he could be turned back to our beliefs.

I mean I am far from an example of a good christian, I don't attend church regularly, and when I was attending, It was because they had just built a new basketball court and I wanted a place I could play ball.

I think the reason my belief is like you said about hope, but its hope that I will get to see my father again in the afterlife thats what I want.

The bold is one of the reasons why I became disillusioned with going to church, because it wasn't about faith anymore it was about trying to hook them when they are young, with something they like, they actually have pool tables at the church I used to go to.

I just believed that if they wanted to really spread their faith they would make the effort rather than hope to attract followers to them with things like pool and basketball.
 
I believe you.

And I think all the atheists have it backwards, christians embrace their faith out of love, while atheists shy away from it out of fear, they want to be able to live their life how they want with no accountablity, and they don't want to listen. They throw up the scientific reasoning and evidence umbrella to make sure they are not actually getting the message. I find it harder and harder everyday to stop caring for these people.

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not, its kinda hard to tell these days, when people make such openly stupid remarks.

Just in case your being serious, how is an atheist shying away in fear from something he doesn't believe in. When a kid has a nightmare and calls for his parents worried about an imagined boogeyman, his parents don't panic and run away in fear. Are you suggesting that if the kid's parents were to attempt to search for some evidence of this "boogeyman" it would only be in an attempt to avoid any responsibility in their lives? your arguement made very little sense.

But that was not the purpose of this thread, i was wondering what kind of tests it would take for someone to either gain or loose faith from their current position.

I was pretty much sure that all the religious posters on this hype would be too close minded to say anything other than "nothing could change my belief" and so far i've been right.

Which was why i directed the question to atheists,

what would make you believe in a religion?
(religious people feel free to answer anyway)
 
I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not, its kinda hard to tell these days, when people make such openly stupid remarks.

Just in case your being serious, how is an atheist shying away in fear from something he doesn't believe in. When a kid has a nightmare and calls for his parents worried about an imagined boogeyman, his parents don't panic and run away in fear. Are you suggesting that if the kid's parents were to attempt to search for some evidence of this "boogeyman" it would only be in an attempt to avoid any responsibility in their lives? your arguement made very little sense.

But that was not the purpose of this thread, i was wondering what kind of tests it would take for someone to either gain or loose faith from their current position.

I was pretty much sure that all the religious posters on this hype would be too close minded to say anything other than "nothing could change my belief" and so far i've been right.

Which was why i directed the question to atheists,

what would make you believe in a religion?
(religious people feel free to answer anyway)


I mostly posted in this thread because the rumor going around the small town I live in is I have lost my faith and in the eyes of the church I used to attend I am an atheist because I don't sit in a crowded room all morning before going to play basketball in the afternoon.

I am aware my earlier post was a little confusing and I apologize for that I just want to understand the atheist belief, because I don't understand it anymore than atheist understand christians beliefs, I was raised to get both sides of an argument before making a decision and thats all I want is to understand the atheist belief. What I was getting at with the earlier post was in my opinion which doesn't mean a whole lot to a whole lot of people these days is it appears to me that atheists are afraid that we are right the same way christians deep down fear that atheists are right. Because as I have said several time there is no proof to be found on either side.

But just to state it again this is just my own personal opinion on the matter.
 

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