Queens Elementary School Adopts All-Vegetarian Menu

[Alex_Spider]

We're all aware that vegans are superior with a capacity for higher levels of thought.

lol classic response from an "offended" meat eater.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

We're all aware that vegans are superior with a capacity for higher levels of thought.

Apparently, because it looks like you misspelled "vegetarians" as "vegans."

Also apparently incapable of seeing any possible upside to a humanity without the massive-scale herding and culling of cattle.

And didn't you know veganism gives you telekinetic powers?

 

[Teelie]

Okay, all right. Much like the tomatoes were at one point thought to be poisonous due to the instruments they were served in. :nods:

I'm all for research, and I am glad you linked me to that. But are you arguing that unprocessed red meat is low in acidity and/or cholesterol? Particularly when compared to unprocessed white meat/fish? Alternatively when compared to unprocessed fruits and vegetables?

I'm arguing that making blanket "meat is bad" statements is wrong and that claiming that an all one kind of food diet is a bad thing. To link to your tomatoes, those are incredibly acidic as well and they're a vegetable. Should we no longer eat tomatoes?

Cholesterol is overhyped in danger... until you ingest too much which is true of everything. Too much water, you drown. Too much salt, you die. Too much oxygen, it'll cause hyperoxia and kill you.

That's what I'm saying. moderate consumption is what we need, not total lack of.

I've lived with people who are everything from total vegan to pescetarian to absolute carnivore and I can't say any of them are truly healthy, save maybe the pescetarian but even he eats cheese, eggs and milk products.

 

[Teelie]

Are you honestly telling me that the vast majority of slaughter farms are humane, and have crystal clean methods of sustaining the animals imprisoned inside them? What's next, cows going willingly to heir death with a smile? We all know very well that's not true don't we?

Let me guess, you think cats and dogs can and should be vegetarian too? Because what we do to animals we eat is nothing like what they do... and nature is very much kill or be killed and worry about the pain later.

We at least make an effort to quickly and painlessly kill our foods, other animals will revel in torture yet you want to quibble and pretend that our food should be happy to die? What about insects? Should we not eat them either? Those are living beings too and make up a huge amount of the food some populations eat. What makes farming insects stand out from a farm of cattle?

This is reality. Just because some places are unethical does not mean all are but that's the vegan all or nothing approach. It's either your way or you're an abusive animal eating monster who doesn't "get it."

Please define me what kind of meat does the "wise" health establishments recommend except cows, pigs and chickens and how do we know for sure what is the optimal quantity for each person? I mean why not add in our diet snakes, dog, horses etc like they do into other cultures?

You would object to any of those (snakes, horses, dogs, fish, crusteacans, etc) being added to your previous vegan philosophy so there is no correct answer. Your "correct" answer is that we should all eat what you do because if it works for you it must work for everyone.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I'm arguing that making blanket "meat is bad" statements is wrong and that claiming that an all one kind of food diet is a bad thing. To link to your tomatoes, those are incredibly acidic as well and they're a vegetable. Should we no longer eat tomatoes?

Cholesterol is overhyped in danger... until you ingest too much which is true of everything. Too much water, you drown. Too much salt, you die. Too much oxygen, it'll cause hyperoxia and kill you.

That's what I'm saying. moderate consumption is what we need, not total lack of.

I've lived with people who are everything from total vegan to pescetarian to absolute carnivore and I can't say any of them are truly healthy, save maybe the pescetarian but even he eats cheese, eggs and milk products.

Actually, we are probably close to the same page then. At least, it's beginning to feel that way.

See, when I originally became a vegetarian I was planning to be an ova-pescetarian. Except that a personal ethical-belief got in the way (not one I'd expect or even challenge another person to agree with). Fish is great. Except for the minor issue of heavy metals, which can successfully be detoxed regularly or avoided by focusing on (sustainably) farmed fish.

So at this point I eat eggs (in generous quantities that i get from the neighbor's chicken), avoid dairy whenever possible. Almond milk is my go-to, though I do also hold yogurt in high regard. And don't give a flying-hoot about eating by-products like honey. I take a multivitamin, an omega supplement, a good amount of liquid aminos. I eat high-protein vegetables, a lot of fresh fruit and nuts (organic whenever possible). I exercise (I would say) often. I don't own a car, I bicycle about 45 miles a week. And do some basic core workouts from home including some dabbling in yoga.

^ thats my life. And physically, I feel great. Male, age 23, toned with a body fat between 6-10% . And I would applaud anyone who has a similar diet with the addition of fresh fish.

I know, even personally, many "vegans" choose to subsist mainly off of french fries and ***** about other people's meat-centric diets. That is wrong. Those vegans are doing the wrong thing. But I respect any healthy vegan diet because of how independent it can be and how sustainable it most assuredly is.

I personally am a vegetarian and I have no plan to be vegan.

EDIT: I forgot my grains: mainly oats, bran and rice. And my beverages: typically 40-50 oz of water a day, I do drink a good amount of tea and the occasional blended fruit/veggie smoothie.

 

[Alex_Spider]

Uh, even if there was the slightest chance that meat and dairy were beneficial to us, I still wouldn't support this mass massacre of innocent beings. I mean Jesus, where does all this galons of blood, slaughtered bodies and spilling guts end up? Exactly our rivers, sea and soil. Ugh, isnt that disgusting or what.

 

[NickNitro]

This is how I feel, and I'll probably end it here.

Vegans - Do not condone cruelty to animals so have gone the route of eating products that aren't associated with farming and killing of livestock

Non Vegans - turn the other cheek and eat their beef but still do feel bad about the mass herding and inhumane slaughter houses

Bottom line - Until we somehow revert back to a day where everyone hunted and gathered their own meals, had their own farms, raised their own livestock, this will always be the bulk of the argument.

The bi product of this argument is Vegans and Non Vegans alike spatting at each other which is healthier, which is better for you. The industrial age destroyed plant and animal cultivation for human population. For a time it was great, we were able to feed the masses more quickly, starvation and the like went down. Areas that couldn't harvest food because of a bad winter didn't need to go hungry because they could purchase goods from across the nation. This sadly turned corporations to greed, caring more about the dollar then the products they served the people. Animals began to be injected with hormones to get the most meat possible out, plants were sprayed with pesticides and other harmful chemicals to ensure each grow was as plentiful as the last. Until we put a stop to eating at places like KFC, McDonalds, and the like, this argument we have will be for nothing. We created a monster, now we have to kill it.

 

[Hyde]

No thanks, I think chewing is how you got into this predicament in the first place!

Offended.

 

[cryptic name]

Queens Elementary School Adopts All-Vegetarian Menu

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/PS-24-Flushing-Queens-Elementary-School-All-Vegetarian-Menu--205458481.html

I always brought my lunch anyway...

 

[Alex_Spider]

Let me guess, you think cats and dogs can and should be vegetarian too? Because what we do to animals we eat is nothing like what they do... and nature is very much kill or be killed and worry about the pain later.

The analogy you made doesn't make sense. Nature created carnivore animals with sharp claws and long teeth to hunt and eat other animals whenever they are hungry, not forsport or addiction and that's fair in my book. What we humans though do is a travesty.
Breeding in extreme numbers and impregnating animals with artificial means to satisfy our addiction? That's just sick.

We at least make an effort to quickly and painlessly kill our foods, other animals will revel in torture yet you want to quibble and pretend that our food should be happy to die? What about insects? Should we not eat them either? Those are living beings too and make up a huge amount of the food some populations eat. What makes farming insects stand out from a farm of cattle.

What do you mean you? Do you own a farm? Yeah, I oppose even insect eating unless there isn't any plant or fruit around to survive.

 

[Alex_Spider]

This is how I feel, and I'll probably end it here.

Vegans - Do not condone cruelty to animals so have gone the route of eating products that aren't associated with farming and killing of livestock

Non Vegans - turn the other cheek and eat their beef but still do feel bad about the mass herding and inhumane slaughter houses

Bottom line - Until we somehow revert back to a day where everyone hunted and gathered their own meals, had their own farms, raised their own livestock, this will always be the bulk of the argument.

The bi product of this argument is Vegans and Non Vegans alike spatting at each other which is healthier, which is better for you. The industrial age destroyed plant and animal cultivation for human population. For a time it was great, we were able to feed the masses more quickly, starvation and the like went down. Areas that couldn't harvest food because of a bad winter didn't need to go hungry because they could purchase goods from across the nation. This sadly turned corporations to greed, caring more about the dollar then the products they served the people. Animals began to be injected with hormones to get the most meat possible out, plants were sprayed with pesticides and other harmful chemicals to ensure each grow was as plentiful as the last. Until we put a stop to eating at places like KFC, McDonalds, and the like, this argument we have will be for nothing. We created a monster, now we have to kill it.

Very sane post

[YT]d7cxmFugZMA&[/YT]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7cxmFugZMA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

What I like about Earthlings is that it takes a holistic approach to the animal exploitation by exposing not only how the meat industry works but the animal experimentation, their live skining for fur and leather products, their imprisonment for entertainment purposes etc.

A holistic approach is indeed the way to improve this world. In fact if I had the skills and time I would make a documentary about animal exploitation, about the preservation of our fragile planet, the hunger, the wars, the corrupt big pharmas etc. all into one package.

 

[Teelie]

Actually, we are probably close to the same page then. At least, it's beginning to feel that way.

Not far off, no. It's more idealogical difference than anything else. I don't mind vegans, vegetarians, pescatarians, etc. until they start pushing or promoting their diet as better and then give false, misleading or questionable claims to their way of living. I'm no fan of the all meat dieters either although there are fewer of them promoting their idealogy than the veggie crowd.

It's like all things in life; moderation is the key to success. We can't all eat the same things and we shouldn't try or manipulate others into doing so either under the pretense it's better or that we're not meant to consume certain things (or as in some cases, because we equate meat with sinfulness).

If you want to eat only one kind of food, that's your prerogative, but don't try to convince everyone else your way is the right way because it only ends up in threads like this where everyone has something to prove, disprove, promote or persuade about and it gets ugly. For every "proof" someone has, someone else has a "proof" they are wrong. The truth is somewhere in the middle, not in the extreme.

Now I definitely agree Americans (and the first world as a whole) aren't eating healthy enough but the solution isn't to cut out meat or increase vegetable consumption (though it would help) but to cut back on excess consumption of sugar, salt and fat, the three major ingredients to processed foods.

If we ate what we did now, without all the processing everything seemingly is these days, our lives would be healthier and better off (still too much meat but I digress) though that's a different topic.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Not far off, no. It's more idealogical difference than anything else. I don't mind vegans, vegetarians, pescatarians, etc. until they start pushing or promoting their diet as better and then give false, misleading or questionable claims to their way of living. I'm no fan of the all meat dieters either although there are fewer of them promoting their idealogy than the veggie crowd.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you there: I think whenever there is an over-the-top backlash against a vegetarian menu, as if it is some sort of communist political agenda, that is the meat-eater equivalent of the sanctimony of the vegetarian/vegan lobby.

 

[Teelie]

How often do you see people promoting a meat only diet though? That's a backlash against something someone else said, not an out-of-nowhere declaration like is often seen amongst the veggies (too many vega-variants to list). Over the top it may be, but it was initiated as a response to someone else, not a declaration on its own.

Although come to think of it, I have not seen a single person advocate eating only meat as a diet here...

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Those damn Eskimos. Promoting meat only. So annoying.

 

[Hawkingbird]

Damn those fruitist giraffes too...

 

[Alex_Spider]

Here's some food for thought...

Mad Cowboy - Full Documentary
[YT]piZmH4gzyqs[/YT]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piZmH4gzyqs

HOW TO TELL THE TRUTH AND GET IN TROUBLE

I am a fourth-generation dairy farmer and cattle rancher. I grew up on a dairy farm in Montana, and I ran a feedlot operation there for twenty years. I know firsthand how cattle are raised and how meat is produced in this country.
Today I am president of Earth Save International, an organization promoting organic farming and the vegetarian diet.

Sure, I used to enjoy my steaks as much as the next guy. But if you knew what I know about what goes into them and what they can to do you, youd probably be a vegetarian like me. And, believe it or not, as a pure vegetarian now who consumes no animal products at all, I can tell you these days I enjoy eating more than ever.

If youre a meat-eater in America, you have a right to know that you have something in common with most of the cows youve eaten. Theyve eaten meat, too.
When a cow is slaughtered, about half of it by weight is not eaten by humans: the intestines and their contents, the head, hooves, and horns, as well as bones and blood. These are dumped into giant grinders at rendering plants, as are the entire bodies of cows and other farm animals known to be diseased. Rendering is a $2.4 billion-a-year industry, processing forty billion pounds of dead animals a year.

There is simply no such thing in America as an animal too ravaged by disease, too cancerous, or too putrid to be welcomed by the all-embracing arms of the renderer. Another staple of the renderers diet, in addition to farm animals, is euthanized pets - the six or seven million dogs and cats that are killed in animal shelters every year. The city of Los Angeles alone, for example, sends some two hundred tons of euthanized cats and dogs to a rendering plant every month. Added to the blend are the euthanized catch of animal control agencies, and road kill. (Road kill is not collected daily, and in the summer, the better road kill collection crews can generally smell it before they can see it.)

When this gruesome mix is ground and steam-cooked, the lighter, fatty material floating to the top gets refined for use in such products as cosmetics, lubricants, soaps, candles, and waxes. The heavier protein material is dried and pulverized into a brown powder-about a quarter of which consists of fecal material. The power is used as an additive to almost all pet food as well as to livestock feed. Farmers call it protein concentrates. In 1995, five million tons of processed slaughterhouse leftovers were sold for animal feed in the United States. I used to feed tons of the stuff to my own livestock. It never concerned me that I was feeding cattle to cattle.

 

[Tanin]

When did this turn into 'the vegetarians and vegans bash meat eaters' thread?

 

[Teelie]

About the time it was posted.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Are we still counting pizza as a vegetable?

 

[Teelie]

Not if it has mushrooms; that's a fungus.

 

[Alex_Spider]

When did this turn into 'the vegetarians and vegans bash meat eaters' thread?

About the time it was posted.

And what group do you belong to? Are with "us" or with "them"?
Just kidding. Actually I wouldn't call it "bashing", just a natural form of argument from all sides, that is excepted when dealing with issues like these.

 

[Teelie]

I'm with the omnivores. Though I'm more partial to whatever you'd call people who like mushrooms. Fungivores? Mushrooms are probably my favorite food after chicken and ahead of peaches.

 

[BATZARRO WWD]

I like how all food now is either organic grass burritos or McDonalds. Jesus, even food has gotten the "with us or against us" attitude.

A reasonable sized plate of pasta with some meats and a side dish is not poison. I think the hunt for "real" "healthy" food has missed the point if we think the odd meat based meal every once in a while is the reason America has an obesity problem.

I don't even think the problem is how "processed" the food is. People don't get to "break the doorframe" levels of fat eating a 3 square processed meals. They get ther through snacks, fast food, sodas and overeating.


My great-granma got to almost to 100 years old, and when I met her her diet seemed to be mostly saltine crackers, cigarettes and booze(but I never spent that much time with her, so she might have been getting some panacea on the side). Steve Jobs' all fruit died put the hurt on Ashton Kutcher's pancreas, to not speculate about Jobs' own.


My point is, it's not the food, but the amounts.

 

[terry78]

Vegetables are for nancy boys. That's right, we're all thinking it.