Queens Elementary School Adopts All-Vegetarian Menu

[Alex_Spider]

I probably should have left this dead since there is absolutely nothing to say that will make a difference and instead will just end up with more propaganda and misleading ******** about the "superior" vegan diet while ignoring anything that refutes it.

Yeah when facts and horror speak for themselves, there is nothing more to be said. To be fair though here's a link with an "academic" debate with both sides stating their view. Just skip the parts where omnivore defenders speak
Just kidding lol

[YT]586jSyXfOVM[/YT]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=586jSyXfOVM

 

[NickNitro]

I honestly do not see a problem with a vegan meal once a day, but to be your primary diet I disagree with.

90% of kids in school need a vegan diet, childhood obesity is a disgusting epidemic. I am all for children eating healthier. I just don't see the upside to a life of veganism thats all.

 

[Teelie]

Yeah when facts and horror speak for themselves, there is nothing more to be said. To be fair though here's a link with an "academic" debate with both sides stating their view. Just skip the parts where omnivore defenders speak
Just kidding lol

[YT]586jSyXfOVM[/YT]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=586jSyXfOVM

You mean intentionally distorted and sensationalized beyond reality facts? Then there is nothing more to be said, no. I can find plenty of shock video that is "true" in the sense it happened but that doesn't mean everyone/thing is like that, contrary to the claims vegans make when they do their whole "meat is murder" spiel.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I honestly do not see a problem with a vegan meal once a day, but to be your primary diet I disagree with.

90% of kids in school need a vegan diet, childhood obesity is a disgusting epidemic. I am all for children eating healthier. I just don't see the upside to a life of veganism thats all.

But...vegans are silly.

 

[Teelie]

And as we all know, vegan diets are the cure-all solver of every problem ever related to health. (There is no sarcasm smiley appropriately sarcastic enough to insert here)

 

[Pink Ranger]

I honestly do not see a problem with a vegan meal once a day, but to be your primary diet I disagree with.

90% of kids in school need a vegan diet, childhood obesity is a disgusting epidemic. I am all for children eating healthier. I just don't see the upside to a life of veganism thats all.

I am in favour of this vegan school lunch (though I do not support veganism altogether, I think anything that forces Americans to eat fruits and vegetables is a good thing) but surely you know that one of the chief causes of obesity in the developed world is the consumption of sugars and other carbohydrates? So cutting meat from one's diet won't actually fix that.

In fact, many vegetarians also become sugar addicts in practice, so in some ways you are making the obesity problem worse.

 

[Teelie]

In fact, many vegetarians also become sugar addicts in practice, so in some ways you are making the obesity problem worse.

Shh, you'll spoil the surprise. That's why I've always advocated for a balanced diet. If you balance your needs, you shouldn't crave things you're missing. So eat some sugar, eat some meat, eat some fruits and vegetables but don't over indulge in any one of them.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I honestly do not see a problem with a vegan meal once a day, but to be your primary diet I disagree with.

90% of kids in school need a vegan diet, childhood obesity is a disgusting epidemic. I am all for children eating healthier. I just don't see the upside to a life of veganism thats all.

Isn't the topic a vegetarian-menu? As opposed to vegan?

And if you don't see the upside to a life of vegetarianism than you are probably not capable of looking beyond yourself and your own wants/desires.

For instance, animal agribusiness contributes more to co2 emissions than transportation does. When growing your own food or buying local, buying meat for every meal (or even 7 meals a week) is taxing upon not only your wallet but unrealistic to sustain for an entire community.

- Protein from vegetables is more easily utilized by the body and has nutrients that meats just don't provide in sensible serving sizes.
- Monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats from fruits, nuts and vegetables do positive things for your heart and your arteries as opposed to the saturated fats from meats and dairy.
- Omegas and Aminos are other things that omnivores clamor for, but can be found in appropriate dosages in other food sources as well as supplements that even omnivores should seriously be looking into.

The bottom line is, I have worked in the nutrition industry for coming on 6 years now and for most of that time I was an avid carnivore. But there was no way I could continue fooling myself (as an environmentalist and as someone who wanted a healthy diet) that eating meat was actually good for me or the environment.

You have the right to eat meat, you have the right to eat it daily, with every meal and in large quantities until it kills you. But don't pretend it's good for you or for your ecosystem.

 

[NickNitro]

I am in favour of this vegan school lunch (though I do not support veganism altogether, I think anything that forces Americans to eat fruits and vegetables is a good thing) but surely you know that one of the chief causes of obesity in the developed world is the consumption of sugars and other carbohydrates? So cutting meat from one's diet won't actually fix that.

In fact, many vegetarians also become sugar addicts in practice, so in some ways you are making the obesity problem worse.

I'd rather cut it all for one meal and have the kids eat a healthy non sugar/gluton free lunch then let it go the way it has been in every other school. If you can force a child to cut out sugars and bad fats for at least one meal a day, even if that means taking out meat as well, I think the health benefits are greater than not.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

But...vegans are silly.

You know that that sounds ridiculous right?

 

[Pink Ranger]

Shh, you'll spoil the surprise. That's why I've always advocated for a balanced diet. If you balance your needs, you shouldn't crave things you're missing. So eat some sugar, eat some meat, eat some fruits and vegetables but don't over indulge in any one of them.

Lol, considering the attitudes of those across the developed world, you might as well be talking in Swahili there.

I'd rather cut it all for one meal and have the kids eat a healthy non sugar/gluton free lunch then let it go the way it has been in every other school. If you can force a child to cut out sugars and bad fats for at least one meal a day, even if that means taking out meat as well, I think the health benefits are greater than not.

I agree with that aspect of your assertions, but my sugar statement was in response to your other assertion that a vegan diet would impact obesity.

 

[NickNitro]

You know that that sounds ridiculous right?

You know she was being sarcastic right?

 

[Teelie]

The bottom line is, I have worked in the nutrition industry for coming on 6 years now and for most of that time I was an avid carnivore. But there was no way I could continue fooling myself (as an environmentalist and as someone who wanted a healthy diet) that eating meat was actually good for me or the environment.

I could argue that, and in fact have, but it's been ignored by the vegan right so there's little more to say than read past posts. As someone in the industry, you should also know that there is no consensus on nutrional intake, needs or where to get it from.

And you should also be able to seperate your personal views from the professional views. Meat is good for you but it must be in the right amounts, and as unprocessed as possible.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

You know he was being sarcastic right?

She

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

You know she was being sarcastic right?

no, I'm playing catch up, didnt know this thread existed.

@Hawkingbird, no offense intended. If it was sarcasm, you must indeed realize that it's ridiculous.

I could argue that, and in fact have, but it's been ignored by the vegan right so there's little more to say than read past posts. As someone in the industry, you should also know that there is no consensus on nutrional intake, needs or where to get it from.

And you should also be able to seperate your personal views from the professional views. Meat is good for you but it must be in the right amounts, and as unprocessed as possible.

Okay. And yes. For the average person, after appropriate weaning and gradual decline, eating a 3-4 oz serving of non-red meat 2-3 times a week can be beneficial for the body. So if that's what we are arguing, by all means. Keep it up.

But the American diet (for example) consists of probably 3-4 times that, minimum. Not to mention the meat they are getting is injected with hormones and antibiotics that negate any intrinsically positive value of eating meat to begin with. Cholesterol and acidity in pork and beef that is merely a one-two punch to your heart and circulatory system.

 

[NickNitro]

She

yeah I'm just gonna say "they" because I dont know who's what gender lol I just assume everyones a dude

 

[Pink Ranger]

Okay. And yes. For the average person, after appropriate weaning and gradual decline, eating a 3-4 oz serving of non-red meat 2-3 times a week can be beneficial for the body. So if that's what we are arguing, by all means. Keep it up.

But the American diet (for example) consists of probably 3-4 times that, minimum. Not to mention the meat they are getting is injected with hormones and antibiotics that negate any intrinsically positive value of eating meat to begin with. Cholesterol and acidity in pork and beef that is merely a one-two punch to your heart and circulatory system.

Yeah, that's the real problem, the American (also Canadian, British and a lot of European) diet is way out of wack on the meat scale. It's disgusting frankly; I've had rather bitter debates with people who insist that baked potato counts as a vegetable.

That's why I don't really have a problem with food inflation: meat ought to be more expensive, as it was back in the old days.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I used to be a camera assistant at Playboy much to the same effect.

wait, you became gay or celibate?

Yeah, that's the real problem, the American (also Canadian, British and a lot of European) diet is way out of wack on the meat scale. It's disgusting frankly; I've had rather bitter debates with people who insist that baked potato counts as a vegetable.

That's why I don't really have a problem with food inflation: meat ought to be more expensive, as it was back in the old days.

Yeah, buy (a lot) less meat in higher qualities if you must. Problem (nearly) solved.

 

[Teelie]

Except... that's been disproven. It's like saying drinking water will kill you... without clarifying that drinking saltwater will kill you.

Consumption of processed meats, but not red meats, is associated with higher incidence of CHD and diabetes mellitus. These results highlight the need for better understanding of potential mechanisms of effects and for particular focus on processed meats for dietary and policy recommendations.

Also...

RESULTS:
As of June 2009, 26,344 deaths were observed. After multivariate adjustment, a high consumption of red meat was related to higher all-cause mortality (hazard ratio (HR) = 1.14, 95% confidence interval (CI) 1.01 to 1.28, 160+ versus 10 to 19.9 g/day), and the association was stronger for processed meat (HR = 1.44, 95% CI 1.24 to 1.66, 160+ versus 10 to 19.9 g/day). After correction for measurement error, higher all-cause mortality remained significant only for processed meat (HR = 1.18, 95% CI 1.11 to 1.25, per 50 g/d). We estimated that 3.3% (95% CI 1.5% to 5.0%) of deaths could be prevented if all participants had a processed meat consumption of less than 20 g/day. Significant associations with processed meat intake were observed for cardiovascular diseases, cancer, and 'other causes of death'. The consumption of poultry was not related to all-cause mortality.

Pretty much what I've been saying: Unprocessed meat is fine and healthier to eat. It's the processed **** that'll kill us all and it is not limited to meat. Fruits and vegetables are processed as well or covered in pesticides and all those other boogey-men that vegans warn us about.

 

[Pink Ranger]

wait, you became gay or celibate?

Ask any two people who know me and you'd get two different answers!

 

[Hyde]

I'm probably obese but I'm a vegetarian. Chew on that

 

[Pink Ranger]

I'm probably obese but I'm a vegetarian. Chew on that

No thanks, I think chewing is how you got into this predicament in the first place!

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Except... that's been disproven. It's like saying drinking water will kill you... without clarifying that drinking saltwater will kill you.

Also...
Pretty much what I've been saying: Unprocessed meat is fine and healthier to eat. It's the processed **** that'll kill us all and it is not limited to meat. Fruits and vegetables are processed as well or covered in pesticides and all those other boogey-men that vegans warn us about.

Okay, all right. Much like the tomatoes were at one point thought to be poisonous due to the instruments they were served in. :nods:

I'm all for research, and I am glad you linked me to that. But are you arguing that unprocessed red meat is low in acidity and/or cholesterol? Particularly when compared to unprocessed white meat/fish? Alternatively when compared to unprocessed fruits and vegetables?

 

[Alex_Spider]

You mean intentionally distorted and sensationalized beyond reality facts? Then there is nothing more to be said, no. I can find plenty of shock video that is "true" in the sense it happened but that doesn't mean everyone/thing is like that, contrary to the claims vegans make when they do their whole "meat is murder" spiel.

Are you honestly telling me that the vast majority of slaughter farms are humane, and have crystal clean methods of sustaining the animals imprisoned inside them? What's next, cows going willingly to heir death with a smile? We all know very well that's not true don't we?

Isn't the topic a vegetarian-menu? As opposed to vegan?

And if you don't see the upside to a life of vegetarianism than you are probably not capable of looking beyond yourself and your own wants/desires.

For instance, animal agribusiness contributes more to co2 emissions than transportation does. When growing your own food or buying local, buying meat for every meal (or even 7 meals a week) is taxing upon not only your wallet but unrealistic to sustain for an entire community.

- Protein from vegetables is more easily utilized by the body and has nutrients that meats just don't provide in sensible serving sizes.
- Monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats from fruits, nuts and vegetables do positive things for your heart and your arteries as opposed to the saturated fats from meats and dairy.
- Omegas and Aminos are other things that omnivores clamor for, but can be found in appropriate dosages in other food sources as well as supplements that even omnivores should seriously be looking into.

The bottom line is, I have worked in the nutrition industry for coming on 6 years now and for most of that time I was an avid carnivore. But there was no way I could continue fooling myself (as an environmentalist and as someone who wanted a healthy diet) that eating meat was actually good for me or the environment.

You have the right to eat meat, you have the right to eat it daily, with every meal and in large quantities until it kills you. But don't pretend it's good for you or for your ecosystem.

Excellent post.

I could argue that, and in fact have, but it's been ignored by the vegan right so there's little more to say than read past posts. As someone in the industry, you should also know that there is no consensus on nutrional intake, needs or where to get it from.

And you should also be able to seperate your personal views from the professional views. Meat is good for you but it must be in the right amounts, and as unprocessed as possible.

Please define me what kind of meat does the "wise" health establishments recommend except cows, pigs and chickens and how do we know for sure what is the optimal quantity for each person? I mean why not add in our diet snakes, dog, horses etc like they do into other cultures?

 

[zeroapoc]

And if you don't see the upside to a life of vegetarianism than you are probably not capable of looking beyond yourself and your own wants/desires.

We're all aware that vegans are superior with a capacity for higher levels of thought.