GENERAL RAAM582
A Rebellion Built on Hope
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Here's a nice list of all the problems in the X-Men movies in terms of continuity.

Here's a nice list of all the problems in the X-Men movies in terms of continuity.
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Let me give you an example. In X-Men 3, you see an older Professor X and Magneto recruiting Jean Grey to go to his school. In First Class, they go around recruiting people years earlier when they were young, and became enemies shortly after. These two events cannot co-exist, unless DOFP uses time travel to somehow explain this....
ALSO
In X2, we see Hank McCoy on the television, and we hear about his "accident." In First Class, he transforms into Beast many years prior.
Here's a nice list of all the problems in the X-Men movies in terms of continuity.
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If the original timeline counts in this series, then the continuity is already messed up. The Wolverine cannot take place after X3 and be a part of the First Class series.
You're going into territory the movie doesn't even cover. Gordon could have, but it's not the impression he gives. He's desperate to act before the people blow each other up. That's what we're shown.
You can theorize what Gordon might have been feeling all you like. I'm not discussing conjecture.
Of course. But in this situation he was as certain as the Joker was that the ferries were going to blow.
Again that would defeat the whole entire purpose of the experiment. It's like you missed the point Joker was trying to make here. He wasn't blowing them up just for giggles. Blowing them up before midnight serves no purpose at all. The only reason he had to blow them up was for punishment if they didn't blow each other up by midnight.
"At midnight I blow you all up. If however one of you presses the button I'll let that boat live"
Whether he loses against Batman or not, it makes no difference for two obvious reasons;
1. He still finds out one way or another if the people will blow each other up or not
2. He still has Harvey as his ace in the hole. His whole battle for Gotham's soul did not rest entirely on this ferries set up, as he pointed out clearly in the movie
The difference is Bane didn't need 5 months to instill false hope into Gotham. Mere weeks would have achieved that. Joker on the other hand gave the people on the ferries a mere 30 minutes to decide if they wanted thousands of deaths on their hands. That's a tiny amount of time to decide if you want to take thousands of lives.
Makes a lot more sense than what Bane was doing.
It's got nothing to do with liking the idea. I'd like the idea just fine if it made sense to drag out the siege for 5 months. But it didn't. What difference does it make 5 weeks or 5 months later to blow up Gotham?
Couldn't agree more. I understood every word he uttered, but that voice just sounded ridiculous to the point of being unpleasant to listen to. I just couldn't take the guy seriously at all. Every time I think of the character, I'm reminded of this: [YT]E781QE7ZQK8[/YT]
I don't expect everyone to sound like a Greek god or a siren, but, as stated above, when it gets to the point where it's so ridiculous as to be unnerving, it kills the immersion for me.
You're on an absolute tear in this post. We need a salute smiley, but this will have to do until then
To piggyback onto what you're saying, this was a central issue for the entire film. I recall a poster saying that the words spoken by Gordon at the end of TDK sounded like they were randomly picked out of a hat, and solely to sound (melo)dramatic and epic. My feelings about the writing in this film is akin to this, in that it seems like Nolan and Co. had a bunch of interesting ideas, locales, and set-pieces(the prison, Bane's plan, the cops in the sewer, Talia's existence and relevance), but didn't put too much thought into how it all came together to form a cohesive narrative.
You can have all of the fascinating situations you can shake a stick at, but if your plot is incoherent, it simply won't work. Every transition and resolution was a little too neatly wrapped up in a bowtie for my tastes, right down to that abysmal ending.
Yet another huge, glaring mistake that tends to get trivialized by apologists. The antagonist in the Bourne Legacy died in similarly anticlimactic fashion...I'm praying to the movie gods that this sort of shock-death doesn't become the norm. IMO, it reeks of a half-baked attempt to throw off the audience, and I hold to a firm belief that such decisions should only be made if they naturally flow well with the plot.
One of the common excuses I hear for this is that it's "realistic" or "unexpected". It's also realistic and unexpected for people to sometimes not talk in complete sentences or walk in a straight line, but you don't see things like that in movies(unless it's among the central themes, anyway) because it's poor writing. Time to put this realism argument to bed; realism for the sake of realism is never a good idea. It should only ever be employed if it serves the plot, and in this case, it just didn't.
A grand villain deserves a fitting and appropriate demise, whether that be by death, incapacitation, or incarceration. These silly, sudden demises I've been seeing lately seem like little more than petty shock value, not unlike the torture-porn we've seen a lot of lately in horror films.
Very solid post throughout, Spiderdevil.
I meant the accent,I saw expecting something which would send chills through the body.When the Villian is pure evil,his voice should be like thatWas a nice touch to me. I admit that I didn't like it at first but I have no problem with it anymore.
I meant his acting,He didnt do anything extraordinary with the acting imoHe broke Batman.
Except that with TDK you had to think long and hard after the movie to deduce the flaws while in TDKR they were right in the faceI agree here with alot of what you say and I have had the same problem with all of Nolan's films (that I've watched). He relies heavily on chance and luck to the point that it sometimes feels ridiculous and far fetched. All of that to make everything seem smarter than it is and epic. Alot of what Joker managed to do looked clever but was very much based on luck. It's not a huge issue I have because sometimes you have to go that route to make it flow nicely and feel epic, but it doesn't always work for me.
The fact that he planned to die along with the city made his plan absolutely terribleThe "Take control of your city" was connected to the longer speech outside the Blackgate Prison. He means that the ordinary citiziens should take back the city from the rich and corrupt. It was all part of this whole "revolution" agenda he used to give the people false hope.
Bane wanted Gotham to die a slow death. Like he said to Bruce in the prison: he's a torturer of the soul. It's worse to die slowly and painful than quickly. However I must admit that it felt too much like an easy way for the writers to give Bruce all this time to build up himself. It didn't feel natural. It's very much like that typical stereotype villain who, when it seems like he has the upper hand against the hero, starts to unnecessarily brag about his whole plan, instead of just giving the final blow and be done with it, just long enough to let the hero come up with a way to defeat him.
So I understand why it feels lazy to some and I might say too that it felt a little lazy. But it still worked fine to me.
Dont kid yourself,it was just a quick way to get him out of the way to concentrate on TaliaI also like when villains have memorable deaths but it made alot of sense how Nolan chose to kill Bane. Actually, I really like his death because it showed that no one, not even the biggest and baddest, is immortal. I felt there was alot of thought put into his death, no matter how simple and "easy" it looked.
Him crying,getting killed so easily and the whole sacrificing-himself-for-Talia thingy destroyed the little bad-assness he had associated with himselfHe's one of the most intimidating CBM villains out there. His whole presence was badass.
Genius plan? Well, up until he decided to let Gotham breathe for 5 months it was pretty genious.
Great back story? I actually loved the backstory and how it was a mystery until the very end.
Action was much improved in TDKR I'd say. But the action shouldn't be anywhere near Spider-Man for example because they are so different. It's not possible to have the same spectacular action.
I don't know what you mean with legacy. It probably won't have the same impact as TDK but that's because it follows in the same vein already. But it will be remembered as one of the few good final film in a trilogy, that makes the trilogy as a whole one of the first great ones.
Its more important to have an accent which would sound intimidating for a Evil Villian than to make him sound olderI loved the accent even. Gave Bane a sort of distinguished, older sound since Hardy's Bane was supposed to be at least twenty years older than Talia.
I meant that Tom Hardy's acting wasnt anything extraordinaryBroke the Bat, uncovered the Dent lie, brought martial law to Gotham.
As I said before,except that Bus coincidence,none of the other flaws were so glaringNolan's writing of making the villain assume everything. The same happened with Joker and how his plans went flawless and yet no one questions how that happened because we only see Ledger's Joker and not how he's able to get by with so many things and no one apparently notices, lol.
I dont think so,Ra's never meant to get himself killedAnd...how is Bane getting Ra's al Ghul's plan upside down? Didn't Ra's himself want to sacrifice himself as well?
Thats what makes it terriblePlus, seeing as how only Talia escaped that pit in years and years since its creation, I could understand how no one believed Bruce would have escaped the Pit.
Look up the word 'Unceremoniously'Lol, once again, not lazy writing. You're confusing lazy with rush. Bane died quickly, yes, but it wasn't easy and showed what kind of fire power had to kill this monster that was in this film.
Yeah its safe to assume that the Symbiote/Venom was the main villianAnd no...Talia was not the 'main' villain. If that's the case, Venom might as well be called the main villain in Spider-Man 3 since the film built up to him.
Again you need to assume all thisAnd with Talia calling him a friend, that's all I need to know that they were not lovers, nor could they ever be if Bane could never keep that mask off for a certain amount of time, or would it be odd that someone much older would be in a relationship with Talia when he protected her at a very young age. They were only friends and Talia was Bane's real-life Osito.
The way he talked was hardly intimidatingIntimidating? Yes. Did anyone else break Batman in the series? Has anyone else snapped so many necks throughout the film?
Their is nothing great about him sacrificing himself for an 8 year old and getting cast out by the fatherGreat back story? Enough of a backstory as much as Selina Kyle to understand where they're coming from that turned Bane from a monster to a real human being during Talia's reveal.
Just alrightExcellent action sequences? Two very well fight scenes against Batman.
And we have nothing to suggest that those scenes would have made the movie as good as the novelYah, makes sense...not. The filmed scenes that weren't used would have only made up about twenty more minutes.
Its called lazy writingIt's called theatricality.
Unlike Joker,Bane was not a maniac,he was supposed to be master plannerI could say the same that Joker could have blown up the two ships as soon as Batman tried to stop him, but Joker was trying to show off as much as Bane and Talia was.
And while I am theorizing for a bit, I understand Gordon is trying to act before anything bad happens.
He wasn't as certain as Joker as he also mentioned that Joker could blow them both up. He's looking at all outcomes while Batman wasn't as he had amazing faith over Gotham City's citizens, even the criminals.
Do you really think he would really let the other boat live, though?
And this brings up a question I have always had...if Harvey was Joker's 'ace', why even do this experiment?
Mere weeks could have done the job, but five months just shows how Bane was fine with waiting until the countdown gets down to zero without pressing the trigger. He was in no rush having the idea that Bruce wasn't strong enough to climb the Pit.
Same.I previously had little hope for the Fantastic Four reboot but seeing that Josh Trank is associated with it,I am feeling optimistic about it
Or better than First Class.As For X-men,I dont care much about continuity as long as DOFP is as good as First class
I think the movies should be completely separate, but I think it would be cool if it was mentioned that they both take place in the same universe or whatever. Just no crossover movies.Also it would be stupid to combine F4 and X-men universe,they should just keep them apart and make seperate movies
Origins doesn't count. Its not like they made a Deadpool movie that bombed. Was he even referred to as "deadpool" in that movie?Deadpool is a toxic character as of now,seeing how they destroyed him in origins
Its more important to have an accent which would sound intimidating for a Evil Villian than to make him sound older
I meant that Tom Hardy's acting wasnt anything extraordinary
Untill after the football field scene,everything he did was pretty epic,I would agree to that
As I said before,except that Bus coincidence,none of the other flaws were so glaring
I dont think so,Ra's never meant to get himself killed
Thats what makes it terrible
Seeing how a 10 year old escaped it on her first try while 100s of burly men are unable to do so.Its incredibly stupid to show that a 10 year old can climb and jump better than adult men
And the fact that Talia escaped is enough to point out that it isnt safe to Batman in there and assume he wouldnt be able to escape.That a huge flaw he Bane's plan right there
Look up the word 'Unceremoniously'
Yeah its safe to assume that the Symbiote/Venom was the main villian
Again you need to assume all this
Also you saying Bane's 20 years elder to Talia means that Bane's over 50 since Talia is about Bruce Wayne's age which is easily over 30
The way he talked was hardly intimidating
Yes he did break Batman and that was pretty badass,I would give him that credit
Their is nothing great about him sacrificing himself for an 8 year old and getting cast out by the father
Just alright
And we have nothing to suggest that those scenes would have made the movie as good as the novel
Its called lazy writing
Unlike Joker,Bane was not a maniac,he was supposed to be master planner
Joker wanted to prove that when the odds are against you,everyone will turn into a monstor and how he just ahead of the curve
Origins doesn't count. Its not like they made a Deadpool movie that bombed. Was he even referred to as "deadpool" in that movie?
Here's a nice list of all the problems in the X-Men movies in terms of continuity.
![]()