Justice League Ray Fisher Is Victor Stone/Cyborg

[kguillou]

Just to add also, if we’re taking Ray at his word this crusade isnt just about him, its about others hes spoken with who allegedly had problems with Whedon, Johns and co. Fisher cant start dropping specific details about those events because those are not his stories to tell and if he did he could end getting those individuals blacklisted and damaging their careers. It sounds like one of things hes trying to get assurances on is that those individuals whom he says are willing to testify are protected and will not be professionally damaged by this. Thus why Ray is being so vague about details so far.

Again, assuming we’re giving him benefit of doubt here.

 

[KalvinEllis]

This is beside the point but looking at him in this video, he should've totally played Dre in Straight Outta Compton.

 

[SupermanFan]

Sorry but this is pathetic, embarrassing and quite frankly ridiculous. We’ve got a killer virus in the world, violent protests that, illnesses killing people yet he brings this up?

Surely if Johns who he hated called he could have either not taken the call or hung up. It’s really starting to feel like it’s all about Ray Fisher to me,

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Sorry but this is pathetic, embarrassing and quite frankly ridiculous. We’ve got a killer virus in the world, violent protests that, illnesses killing people yet he brings this up?

Surely if Johns who he hated called he could have either not taken the call or hung up. It’s really starting to feel like it’s all about Ray Fisher to me,

Stuff like this does not help the ever growing "Ray Fisher is just mad because he had to work with d-bags" narrative. I understand if Johns directly threatened his career that is a serious, serious thing but it isn't great that when Ray does provide examples it just feels like Johns is a petty **** rather than any kind of "abuser".

He probably has worse stories he can't talk about and I know everyone was ragging on him to give specific examples but... Yeah, that sucks, Johns sounds like a jerk. Not entirely certain what consequences Ray is expecting these people to face if this is what he considers abuse.

 

[chintai80]

i think ray pointed that example out just to show the type of person johns really is.
he did state he has receipts but he's tryin to keep others protected so he can't divulge into details.

and this ain't ray's first rodeo.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Of all the things he's said so far, I can't believe anyone would think this story might be true. Doom Patrol Cyborg is completely unrelated to the DCEU or Fisher's role. They didn't cast Joivan Wade to replace Fisher, they cast him as a different Cyborg, while Ray is currently in negotiations to reprise his role. In what way did this casting possibly affect Fisher so Johns could feel the need to "gloat" about it. What, is this 40 something year old man some 3rd grader who likes to gloat about his new toys to the other kids. There's different Flashes, Supermen and Bruce Waynes running around the DC TV shows, should he gloat at Cavill because of that too. I desperately want to believe this guy and I especially liked the part of the video when he talks about using logic and hard facts to fight WB not emotion like they'd want him to, but the absurdity of this claim is appalling.

 

[Da-Scribe]

i think ray pointed that example out just to show the type of person johns really is.
he did state he has receipts but he's tryin to keep others protected so he can't divulge into details.

and this ain't ray's first rodeo.

Exactly. It’s also separate from the events currently under investigation, which happened during the 2017 JL reshoots.

 

[Schlosser85]

Stuff like this does not help the ever growing "Ray Fisher is just mad because he had to work with d-bags" narrative. I understand if Johns directly threatened his career that is a serious, serious thing but it isn't great that when Ray does provide examples it just feels like Johns is a petty **** rather than any kind of "abuser".

He probably has worse stories he can't talk about and I know everyone was ragging on him to give specific examples but... Yeah, that sucks, Johns sounds like a jerk. Not entirely certain what consequences Ray is expecting these people to face if this is what he considers abuse.

Big Studio Man was mean to me.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Of all the things he's said so far, I can't believe anyone would think this story might be true. Doom Patrol Cyborg is completely unrelated to the DCEU or Fisher's role. They didn't cast Joivan Wade to replace Fisher, they cast him as a different Cyborg, while Ray is currently in negotiations to reprize his role. In what way did this casting possibly affect Fisher so Johns could feel the need to "gloat" about it. What, is this 40 something year old man some 3rd grader who likes to gloat about his new toys to the other kids. There's different Flashes, Supermen and Bruce Waynes running around the DC TV shows, should he gloat at Cavill because of that too. I desperately want to believe this man and I especially liked the part of the video when he talks about using logic and hard facts to fight WB not emotion like they'd want him to, but the absurdity of this claim is appalling.

Why would Johns gloat about Superman when he has no apparent beef with Cavill? I think Ray just brought it up as an example of Johns being a **** to him. And Johns being older doesn’t mean he’s incapable of acting childish. I had a VP who made a poop joke during a damn client meeting. Adults can still be idiots.

 

[emc5466]

Somewhere in Los Angeles Geoff Johns is cackling and rolling a blunt.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Why would Johns gloat about Superman when he has no apparent beef with Cavill? I think Ray just brought it up as an example of Johns being a **** to him. And Johns being older doesn’t mean he’s incapable of acting childish. I had a VP who made a poop joke during a damn client meeting. Adults can still be idiots.

I'm sorry but the way you guys take everything Ray says at face value is just frustrating. What possible reason would Johns have to gloat about this? Because he had prior disagreements with an actor he likely wasn't in contact with for a year and half, all of a sudden he felt the need to be an ass to him out of nowhere? For what purpose? How does that affect either of them? Why would Johns hold a grudge against Ray to want to make him feel like **** for no reason.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I'm sorry but the way you guys take everything Ray says at face value is just frustrating. What possible reason would Johns have to gloat about this? Because he had prior disagreements with an actor he likely wasn't in contact with for a year and half, all of a sudden he felt the need to be an ass to him out of nowhere? For what purpose? How does that affect either of them? Why would Johns hold a grudge against Ray to want to make him feel like **** for no reason.

I’m not taking anything at face value. I’m simply saying that the logic you’re using to try to discredit this particular claim is flawed. I have no clue what really happened, but there’s nothing nonsensical about what Ray said. It’s entirely within the realm of possibility that Johns, like any other human on this planet, may have done something inappropriate simply out of spite.

 

[Alonsovich]

I'm sorry but the way you guys take everything Ray says at face value is just frustrating. What possible reason would Johns have to gloat about this? Because he had prior disagreements with an actor he likely wasn't in contact with for a year and half, all of a sudden he felt the need to be an ass to him out of nowhere? For what purpose? How does that affect either of them? Why would Johns hold a grudge against Ray to want to make him feel like **** for no reason.

Take it as you will, but both Colbert and Grace have mentioned this as standard Johns behavior. Its not only Ray, several insiders have let that slip.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Well, Grace has as much credibility as Nancy Grace does, but it's rather strange how for 20 years at DC, there wasn't a single complaint about this guy, then he starts working on the movies and all of a sudden this crap starts coming out of nowhere. We've heard bad stories about people like DiDio for years before, never about Johns. Was he really this well protected at DC. If he had a reputation like this, wouldn't we have learned about it a long time ago.

 

[Alonsovich]

Working in movies is not the same as working in comics I'm afraid. He may have had a good career in comic writing, but unfortunately his record on film is less than stellar. And add to that, that in Hollywood it takes 5 minutes for the whole industry to know if you're difficult to work with.

 

[heatvision38]

Big Studio Man was mean to me.

And?

 

[heatvision38]

Why would Johns gloat about Superman when he has no apparent beef with Cavill? I think Ray just brought it up as an example of Johns being a **** to him. And Johns being older doesn’t mean he’s incapable of acting childish. I had a VP who made a poop joke during a damn client meeting. Adults can still be idiots.

I was working in a treatment center a few years back. Every week we'd have our clinical meeting with the clinical director where we'd discuss clients, how how they were doing, what needs they may have, etc. We typically work as a team in that regard and each of the therapists were respectable people who cared about the clients.

So we had this relatively new clinical director and when we would go over the clients, he had mocking nicknames for many of the clients (ie, Debbie Downer for a client who was very depressed). It was dehumanizing for the clients regardless of whether they were there to hear it. It made the meetings really awkward because these weren't just names to us but people we were trying to help and the guy was probably late 40's at least.

And he did a lot of other obnoxious crap, too. It made for a very uncomfortable working environment. Fortunately our program director was someone we could go to and express how we felt and eventually, with enough evidence, and having tried to first talk to the guy himself to no avail (he'd minimize our feelings or mock us in his own way or talk about us behind our backs after we'd talk to him), he was finally let go.

But we were fortunate that our program director listened to each of us. I've worked in places, including in the school setting, where even the highest up couldn't care less and that's a problem, or they'd tell you to just talk to your own supervisor when it's that very supervisor that's the problem.

People shouldn't have to accept these working standards just because it's happened in the past. We shouldn't have to just deal with it or get used to it. That's why I'm surprised (more like disappointed) that so many online and some here are like, "Hey, stop whining and get over it, get a thicker skin." Why is it the employee or actor who has to change and not those in charge and responsible for so many other people? That's a question I'd love to see people answer.

/mini rant

 

[heatvision38]

Well, Grace has as much credibility as Nancy Grace does, but it's rather strange how for 20 years at DC, there wasn't a single complaint about this guy, then he starts working on the movies and all of a sudden this crap starts coming out of nowhere. We've heard bad stories about people like DiDio for years before, never about Johns. Was he really this well protected at DC. If he had a reputation like this, wouldn't we have learned about it a long time ago.

To be honest, I've had a bad feeling about Johns for years. I'm typically pretty good at picking up on red flags (I do it for a living), so even before he started working on Smallville I had reservations about him. He only added to that with some projects like the Green Lantern movie and then hearing that he would often be in conflict with TPTB at DC Comics (though to be fair, Didio didn't seem like a pleasant person to work for), then to his comments about DC movies should he about light and hope despite writing some pretty dark stories himself, killing Barry's mom, having Superboy Prime literally rip teenager heroes apart, writing Blackest Night and Flashpoint, and so on, it came across as hypocritical. We've heard behind the scenes stories about him getting over-involved with projects. There's also Diane Nelson's twitter comment, "He's no friend of mine."

This is just my personal perception, but for a long time he has struck me as someone who has let his ego get the best of him (once he got a taste of creative success).

 

[kguillou]

I was working in a treatment center a few years back. Every week we'd have our clinical meeting with the clinical director where we'd discuss clients, how how they were doing, what needs they may have, etc. We typically work as a team in that regard and each of the therapists were respectable people who cared about the clients.

So we had this relatively new clinical director and when we would go over the clients, he had mocking nicknames for many of the clients (ie, Debbie Downer for a client who was very depressed). It was dehumanizing for the clients regardless of whether they were there to hear it. It made the meetings really awkward because these weren't just names to us but people we were trying to help and the guy was probably late 40's at least.

And he did a lot of other obnoxious crap, too. It made for a very uncomfortable working environment. Fortunately our program director was someone we could go to and express how we felt and eventually, with enough evidence, and having tried to first talk to the guy himself to no avail (he'd minimize our feelings or mock us in his own way or talk about us behind our backs after we'd talk to him), he was finally let go.

But we were fortunate that our program director listened to each of us. I've worked in places, including in the school setting, where even the highest up couldn't care less and that's a problem, or they'd tell you to just talk to your own supervisor when it's that very supervisor that's the problem.

People shouldn't have to accept these working standards just because it's happened in the past. We shouldn't have to just deal with it or get used to it. That's why I'm surprised (more like disappointed) that so many online and some here are like, "Hey, stop whining and get over it, get a thicker skin." Why is it the employee or actor who has to change and not those in charge and responsible for so many other people? That's a question I'd love to see people answer.

/mini rant

I work in the accounting field and fortunately I can say that the company I've worked for nearly 10 years has never mistreated me and I've established a good relationship with my firm. However, I've heard from other friends and colleagues in the accounting field who work for prestigious firms that its not uncommon for the partners and/or owners of said firms to act incredibly gross. One colleague of mine used to work for a place where he would often get emails from the partners using incredibly vile language berating him about his work. I would say to my colleague, "omg, how could you have put up with that? I would NEVER let anyone, i don't care who they are, talk to me like that." And the answer was always kind of, "thats just the way it is and you gotta have thick skin."

I think this characterizes a lot of professional fields in America unfortunately. People work jobs where their bosses berate them in inappropriate and gross ways -- but because thats not technically illegal to do so and most of us just kind of brush it off as "well, I guess I just need to grow thick skin and deal with it. This is the way the world is." Either that or you just quit. It doesnt mean its right. Most of us would probably just quit or remove ourselves from the toxic environment but very few of us would actually have the bravery to say, "no no, this cannot fly, something needs to be done." And those very people, like Fisher are the ones who choose to fight it. I think ultimately is what this is all about. This isnt about something blatantly illegal that happened with Whedon, Johns, Berg and co.

I think Ray is fighting against a systemic thing in Hollywood that allows people in power to get away with inappropriate behavior. Not criminal--but inappropriate nonetheless. People like Don Simpson, a legendary producer in Hollywood who was notorious for always being a coked up lunatic who threatened to kill people during meetings because he could. And no one ever did a damn thing about it. I think unfortunately this kind of behavior is much more common than we know.

 

[heatvision38]

I work in the accounting field and fortunately I can say that the company I've worked for nearly 10 years has never mistreated me and I've established a good relationship with my firm. However, I've heard from other friends and colleagues in the accounting field who work for prestigious firms that its not uncommon for the partners and/or owners of said firms to act incredibly gross. One colleague of mine used to work for a place where he would often get emails from the partners using incredibly vile language berating him about his work. I would say to my colleague, "omg, how could you have put up with that? I would NEVER let anyone, i don't care who they are, talk to me like that." And the answer was always kind of, "thats just the way it is and you gotta have thick skin."

I think this characterizes a lot of professional fields in America unfortunately. People work jobs where their bosses berate them in inappropriate and gross ways -- but because thats not technically illegal to do so and most of us just kind of brush it off as "well, I guess I just need to grow thick skin and deal with it. This is the way the world is." Either that or you just quit. It doesnt mean its right. Most of us would probably just quit or remove ourselves from the toxic environment but very few of us would actually have the bravery to say, "no no, this cannot fly, something needs to be done." And those very people, like Fisher are the ones who choose to fight it. I think ultimately is what this is all about. This isnt about something blatantly illegal that happened with Whedon, Johns, Berg and co.

I think Ray is fighting against a systemic thing in Hollywood that allows people in power to get away with inappropriate behavior. Not criminal--but inappropriate nonetheless. People like Don Simpson, a legendary producer in Hollywood who was notorious for always being a coked up lunatic who threatened to kill people during meetings because he could. And no one ever did a damn thing about it. I think unfortunately this kind of behavior is much more common than we know.

Exactly. And we shouldn't normalize that behavior. We shouldn't just be telling people to man up and get over it. I've been a supervisor or manager. Let me tell you, there's nothing about that type of role that prevents you from being a decent person and treating others with respect. You just have to remember what it's like to be on the other side and and make it an intention to be good to the people under you. Putting aside being good to your employees because it's the right thing to do, the reality is, they are the most valuable resource an organization has.

Unfortunately, it takes self awareness.

 

[kguillou]

Exactly dude. Unfortunately, people like to rule with an iron fist because they feel fear produces better results than if you treat people kindly—maybe theyre afraid people will take advantage of kindness. I dont know.

 

[heatvision38]

Exactly dude. Unfortunately, people like to rule with an iron fist because they feel fear produces better results than if you treat people kindly—maybe theyre afraid people will take advantage of kindness. I dont know.

That's one reason. Another is low emotional IQ. Being in charge can be stressful. So do you take that out on other people? A lot of leaders do that. And then there's just forgetting what it's like to be a regular employee and they don't pay enough attention to how they treat those under them. There are different reasons why a person in charge treats their subordinates poorly, that's why it all has to start with self awareness, self honesty, and the intention to do right by those under you.

 

[DS80]

It's been 3 months since Ray Fisher called out Joss Whedon, Geoff Johns and Jon Berg and all WB did to protect those guys names is a nameless press release. You'd think they'll sue Fisher with the amount of name calling he does. I wonder why they don't sue. He straight up accused Geoff Johns of a crime.

Sure, they did nothing wrong

 

[SupermanFan]

It's been 3 months since Ray Fisher called out Joss Whedon, Geoff Johns and Jon Berg and all WB did to protect those guys names is a nameless press release. You'd think they'll sue Fisher with the amount of name calling he does. I wonder why they don't sue. He straight up accused Geoff Johns of a crime.

Sure, they did nothing wrong

Whose saying they did nothing wrong?

The issue we have here is we don’t know all the facts and what Ray has said so far is like eh ok. There’s much much worse things going on in the world.

 

[heatvision38]

Whose saying they did nothing wrong?

The issue we have here is we don’t know all the facts and what Ray has said so far is like eh ok. There’s much much worse things going on in the world.

I'm not sure what this means?