Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[TheFuture]

You're missing context. Its not Ray coming out of nowhere saying its sacrilegous to have Cyborg say "booyah". He has literally said "booyah" on stage before at cons because a fan asked him to. Ray's response came after fans and checkmarks on twitter became very loud about how NOT SAYING it is wrong, and a misreading of the character, destroying childhood, hating Cyborg as a character, etc etc.

It's interesting to me as this captures quite perfectly the hatred some have for these films. Entitled feet stamping from people who can't grasp that these films were not made solely to bring their childhood to life.

 

[SupermanFan]

Never said attempted

 

[LifesEnd]

It's interesting to me as this captures quite perfectly the hatred some have for these films. Entitled feet stamping from people who can't grasp that these films were not made solely to bring their childhood to life.

dismissing criticism as entitled feet stamping is certainty one take.Cyborg saying boyaah isn't important yea. But these movies are meant to be much funner than they ended up being.Snyder trying to Nolaninfy everything was a bad idea.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Never said attempted

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Never huh?

Spoiler

He even said himself that the investigation itself was fair.

 

[Spider-jedi]

You're missing context. Its not Ray coming out of nowhere saying its sacrilegous to have Cyborg say "booyah". He has literally said "booyah" on stage before at cons because a fan asked him to. Ray's response came after fans and checkmarks on twitter became very loud about how NOT SAYING it is wrong, and a misreading of the character, destroying childhood, hating Cyborg as a character, etc etc.

i didnt say it was sacrilegious. i literally said i understand it not been right for this version of the character. im was not coming at him or anything like that. i didnt mention anything like destroying childhood

 

[TheVileOne]

WB could kill this whole thing tomorrow by suing Ray for libel. But they refuse too. Probably because they don't have a case

Wrong. In a legal case of libel, damage is NOT ASSUMED. It has to be legally proven in a court of law.

 

[idiot09]

i didnt say it was sacrilegious. i literally said i understand it not been right for this version of the character. im was not coming at him or anything like that. i didnt mention anything like destroying childhood

Yeah, and that's my point. You said nothing wrong. Ray was not replying to people like you.

 

[Docker2.0]

Never huh?

Spoiler

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He even said himself that the investigation itself was fair.
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You ever wonder how different people's reaction would be if this was Ben Affleck or Henry Cavill in Fisher's position? Despite having support from costars and others coming out, people STILL blame Fisher. I'm not trying to play a certain card but man what else could it be?

 

[KalvinEllis]

This thread man...

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Yeah, I 100% buy pretty much all of that. I still don't think the elimination of minor characters of colour from the film was some sort of racist strategy, simply because it fit with a larger pattern of cuts and wasn't limited to them, but frankly if I were personally close to the situation like Ray is I wouldn't be giving them the benefit of the doubt either. Some biases are completely understandable.

Dear God, does that all sound horrifically awkward. The penis thing is... so gross and bizarre.

 

[Frodo]

I think Ray is gonna have to just spill the beans on the racist allegations and stop with this dribs and drabs stuff he's posting on twitter.

Unless he's in some sort of lawsuit( in which case, he needs be quite anyway and let his lawyer do the talking until it's settled or there's a judgement) he needs to let it all hang out and not tell some things, make allusions to other things, and tease coming attractions.

If he's got information that is that important about racism at the executive level on the JL production and at the executive level at WB, he needs to tell all and stop with the serialized disclosure.

 

[Da-Scribe]

At first I thought Cyborg would go through some sorta redesign like the comics and get some more human appendages. Figured Johns would've pushed to cut given that and I could see an argument ensuing over Cyborg having more human parts. But seems like Johns and Whedon just wanted to give him penis, which to me is fine honestly, but making it the whole point of a scene is...odd.

The angry black man thing is just big yikes.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Haven't seen JL since 2017, is there a scene in there that... establishes Cyborg has genitals? What a bizarre, bizarre thing to even think about in that movie. Like, maybe if you were making a Cyborg movie you'd touch on it simply because there's a body horror tragedy element to the character but ****ing why?!?

 

[Primal Slayer]

My biggest question is...is this another telephone situation like it was with Joss and the whole "we have to color black people to look white" or whatever? And did those individuals participate in the investigation?

Though JL ddint remove all of the black people. It was cut down to 2hrs and got rid of half a movie. Most who wouldve likely gotten cut had Zack stayed and had to cut it down to 2hrs just like we had characters from BvS.

But caring so much about Cyborgs male parts...when not like they could've shown it anyway is weird.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah; as awful and potentially damning as the actions by John’s, Emmerich and Berg might have been, it’s all hearsay unless someone comes forward who actually heard them have this discussion. While I don’t doubt Ray’s statement, by his own admission he didn’t hear about this until afterward. Now, maybe someone recorded them saying this and he’s heard the recording. But if not, then he’s just reporting something that someone told him. That doesn’t mean it isn’t true but if he wants his allegations to have more weight then the person who was actually there needs to come forward and say, “Yeah, they all said and did this.”

Also, I know that Kiersey Clemons was cut from the theatrical version. But we’re there other people of color who were cut? Even if it is true that Johns & Co. are racist, cutting one actor from a movie doesn’t really prove that allegation. Ray might also be referring to his own role being reduced but again, that would be a bit hard to prove, especially when you take into account several factors:

1. Multiple scenes were reshot and a lot of footage (of all the characters) wasn’t used. The entire Knightmare/Darkseid subplot was removed, meaning a ton of footage that probably didn’t affect Ray’s role very much was scrapped.
2. Fisher was the least known member of the main cast, meaning that if the movie didn’t center around him it wouldn’t really have been a surprise. Additionally, JL is (even by title) a “team” movie, but Ray is making it sound like Cyborg was initially intended to be the central character. Has Snyder said anything like this? I know he called him the emotional heart of the movie or something like that but I don’t remember him saying everything in the film revolves around Cyborg.
3. Cyborg still featured fairly heavily in the movie. Maybe not as much as Fisher would have liked, but he still (I think) had a bigger role than say Superman or Lois.

Again, he may be 100% in the right here. And I don’t doubt such a conversation took place. I would even wager that those kinds of conversations happen a lot in these major studio films, way more than we’re aware of. But right now, it’s all secondhand information.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Yeah, I’m curious if this gets some blowback like the Whedon colour grading thing did. If it doesn’t that is extremely telling.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah; as awful and potentially damning as the actions by John’s, Emmerich and Berg might have been, it’s all hearsay unless someone comes forward who actually heard them have this discussion. While I don’t doubt Ray’s statement, by his own admission he didn’t hear about this until afterward. Now, maybe someone recorded them saying this and he’s heard the recording. But if not, then he’s just reporting something that someone told him. That doesn’t mean it isn’t true but if he wants his allegations to have more weight then the person who was actually there needs to come forward and say, “Yeah, they all said and did this.”

Also, I know that Kiersey Clemons was cut from the theatrical version. But we’re there other people of color who were cut? Even if it is true that Johns & Co. are racist, cutting one actor from a movie doesn’t really prove that allegation. Ray might also be referring to his own role being reduced but again, that would be a bit hard to prove, especially when you take into account several factors:

1. Multiple scenes were reshot and a lot of footage (of all the characters) wasn’t used. The entire Knightmare/Darkseid subplot was removed, meaning a ton of footage that probably didn’t affect Ray’s role very much was scrapped.
2. Fisher was the least known member of the main cast, meaning that if the movie didn’t center around him it wouldn’t really have been a surprise. Additionally, JL is (even by title) a “team” movie, but Ray is making it sound like Cyborg was initially intended to be the central character. Has Snyder said anything like this? I know he called him the emotional heart of the movie or something like that but I don’t remember him saying everything in the film revolves around Cyborg.
3. Cyborg still featured fairly heavily in the movie. Maybe not as much as Fisher would have liked, but he still (I think) had a bigger role than say Superman or Lois.

Again, he may be 100% in the right here. And I don’t doubt such a conversation took place. I would even wager that those kinds of conversations happen a lot in these major studio films, way more than we’re aware of. But right now, it’s all secondhand information.

Exactly. They cut William DaFoe out of the movie, Robin Wright out of the movie. Bruce and Diana set up Aquaman/Flash/Cyborg and if it didnt involve a motherbox you were cut from the film. If they cut out two big names, they certainly wouldnt have a problem cutting out the smaller ones.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Exactly. They cut William DaFoe out of the movie, Robin Wright out of the movie. Bruce and Diana set up Aquaman/Flash/Cyborg and if it didnt involve a motherbox you were cut from the film. If they cut out two big names, they certainly wouldnt have a problem cutting out the smaller ones.

Wow, I didn’t even know Robin Wright was supposed to appear.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

To be fair to Ray, while I suspect he's wrong about that one part it's not hard to empathize with him not being terribly inclined to be charitable.

 

[Deck Rickard]

To be fair to Ray, while I suspect he's wrong about that one part it's not hard to empathize with him not being terribly inclined to be charitable.

Agreed, especially if the “angry Black man” discussion really did happen. And then you have the color grading thing. That one I’m not convinced of either simply because the movie was so CGI heavy that I think the color grading was done that way to make the CGI less obvious (it didn’t work). But maybe it was a real thing, I don’t know.

The Cyborg penis thing... that I don’t understand at all. I mean... what? Just... why?

 

[SupermanFan]

I don’t know why actors of colour been cut from JL is even been made a thing by him. The roles that were cut can be chalked down to the 2 hour mandate. That’s like he’s trying to make something racist that was coincidental. There were many white actors who were also cut from the film or had roles reduced.

 

[Da-Scribe]

It’s not like the cuts worked. So it’s totally fair to me to say there were ways to cut the flick that didn’t erase most of the black people. There was a lot of pointless **** added to JL and I think all of those additions centered around white folks.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

It’s bad enough with the on-screen drama that follows these movies, but the suits behind the scenes just make things so much worse than they already are/were.

they dig themselves deeper and deeper with situations like this one.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

Wow, I didn’t even know Robin Wright was supposed to appear.

She is supposed to be in the history lesson.