Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[heatvision38]

And here he is again, now saying people need to “reflect” because they want a character that says Booyah to say Booyah. Oh the horror.




It really hasn’t though, just because people offer a counter doesn’t mean it’s an acceptable one. And if he can’t revels his intel he shouldn’t be throwing around accusations riling up his online fan base who then go and attack. What he should be doing is keeping that crap to himself and if his fan base do start attacking people he should tell them to act responsible.

What's wrong with the question?

 

[Alonsovich]

Nothing.

 

[Da-Scribe]

And here he is again, now saying people need to “reflect” because they want a character that says Booyah to say Booyah. Oh the horror.

Missing the point entirely I see lol. Cyborg isn't the only character to not say a catchphrase and yet people only seem to care about Cyborg saying one. He's just asking the folks who have singularly griped about Cyborg's catchphrase why it only seems to bother them with respect to Cyborg and no one else.

I'd ask you why it's an unfair question, but I figure it'll be something about Ray's ego/self-importance/etc.

It really hasn’t though, just because people offer a counter doesn’t mean it’s an acceptable one. And if he can’t revels his intel he shouldn’t be throwing around accusations riling up his online fan base who then go and attack. What he should be doing is keeping that crap to himself and if his fan base do start attacking people he should tell them to act responsible.

It's also already been countered as to why exactly he needs to talk publicly even if he has to be vague. I'm not going to keep retreading these arguments you just end up ignoring. I will say, he doesn't have to keep a damn thing to himself. Just because you can't get the details you for some reason believe you deserve, doesn't mean Ray needs to be quiet.

 

[Filmfreak]

Being vague also makes it easier for the alleged abusers to not be able to counter any of his claims. The one time I remember him giving actual specifics was with Whedon's accusation of racism in regards to changing the complexion of an actor in post-production, and that was immediately debunked. So, I can see why he would want to be more careful with his statements.

 

[SupermanFan]

What's wrong with the question?

It’s the way he’s telling people to reflect like they can’t possible just want the character to say it cause it’s a line they associate with the character. It’s be like Cavill telling people to reflect on themselves if they wanted the trunks on the Superman suit. Like saying people who want this stuff are wrong for doing so.

Missing the point entirely I see lol. Cyborg isn't the only character to not say a catchphrase and yet people only seem to care about Cyborg saying one. He's just asking the folks who have singularly griped about Cyborg's catchphrase why it only seems to bother them with respect to Cyborg and no one else.

I'd ask you why it's an unfair question, but I figure it'll be something about Ray's ego/self-importance/etc.

See above

It's also already been countered as to why exactly he needs to talk publicly even if he has to be vague. I'm not going to keep retreading these arguments you just end up ignoring. I will say, he doesn't have to keep a damn thing to himself. Just because you can't get the details you for some reason believe you deserve, doesn't mean Ray needs to be quiet.

I’m not IGNORING anything, I have my view but you dismiss it. You can’t just go round accusing people of been racist or abusive and not explain why.

It’s also got F all to do with deserve but if he wants people to believe him then he needs to drop some facts.

He calls people dangerous enablers yet he’s out on social media drumming up his fans with their pitchforks who then go and abuse others. The irony.

 

[Da-Scribe]

It’s the way he’s telling people to reflect like they can’t possible just want the character to say it cause it’s a line they associate with the character. It’s be like Cavill telling people to reflect on themselves if they wanted the trunks on the Superman suit. Like saying people who want this stuff are wrong for doing so.

But he's not saying people who want Cyborg to say "Booyah" need to reflect on themselves. He's saying if you're mad that Cyborg won't say "Booyah", but have not historically cared about any other characters' not saying their catchphrases then try asking yourself why that is.

The Cavill example doesn't work, because everyone complains about every character's costume not being faithful or attractive enough. No CBM is exempt from that. Even Iron Man had to deal with the circle vs. triangle arc reactor.

The are whole articles written about Cyborg not saying "Booyah" and we don't get that with the other heroes.

I’m not IGNORING anything, I have my view but you dismiss it. You can’t just go round accusing people of been racist or abusive and not explain why.

It’s also got F all to do with deserve but if he wants people to believe him then he needs to drop some facts.

He calls people dangerous enablers yet he’s out on social media drumming up his fans with their pitchforks who then go and abuse others. The irony.

I haven't dismissed you. I just don't agree with you and have explained why many times. No one has said you should blindly believe Ray. But you can take his allegations seriously, even without all the details. And you can ask that WB reasonably address the allegations without taking any sides. You've instead defaulted to calling Ray pathetic and self-important, and have asserted that he should just shut up if he can't tell you everything you want to know. Even in the face of situational evidence, you're still attributing the behavior you view as negative to Ray as a person. In your eyes, it's his character that must be flawed.

This kinda biased reaction is why many people don't come forward about abuse they've either faced or have witnessed. And without a public campaign, this is why so many major corporations are able to sweep any potential instances of abuse or workplace misconduct under the rug.

 

[heatvision38]

It’s the way he’s telling people to reflect like they can’t possible just want the character to say it cause it’s a line they associate with the character. It’s be like Cavill telling people to reflect on themselves if they wanted the trunks on the Superman suit. Like saying people who want this stuff are wrong for doing so.



See above



I’m not IGNORING anything, I have my view but you dismiss it. You can’t just go round accusing people of been racist or abusive and not explain why.

It’s also got F all to do with deserve but if he wants people to believe him then he needs to drop some facts.

He calls people dangerous enablers yet he’s out on social media drumming up his fans with their pitchforks who then go and abuse others. The irony.

I imagine the message is for those more upset with it rather than those who merely ask about it or would prefer the booyah. That's my read on it.

 

[SupermanFan]

But he's not saying people who want Cyborg to say "Booyah" need to reflect on themselves. He's saying if you're mad that Cyborg won't say "Booyah", but have not historically cared about any other characters' not saying their catchphrases then try asking yourself why that is.

The Cavill example doesn't work, because everyone complains about every character's costume not being faithful or attractive enough. No CBM is exempt from that. Even Iron Man had to deal with the circle vs. triangle arc reactor.

The are whole articles written about Cyborg not saying "Booyah" and we don't get that with the other heroes.

He said that “take issue” I’ve seen people take issue with how dismissive he’s been of that line, like anyone who even wants him to say it shouldn’t. People have a right to feel that way.

I also don’t see how my theoretical Cavill example doesn’t work either.

I haven't dismissed you. I just don't agree with you and have explained why many times. No one has said you should blindly believe Ray. But you can take his allegations seriously, even without all the details. And you can ask that WB reasonably address the allegations without taking any sides. You've instead defaulted to calling Ray pathetic and self-important, and have asserted that he should just shut up if he can't tell you everything you want to know. Even in the face of situational evidence, you're still attributing the behavior you view as negative to Ray as a person. In your eyes, it's his character that must be flawed.

This kinda biased reaction is why many people don't come forward about abuse they've either faced or have witnessed. And without a public campaign, this is why so many major corporations are able to sweep any potential instances of abuse or workplace misconduct under the rug.

And I don’t agree with you, I can’t just get on board with cancelling people and labelling them racist etc with very little information.

i also think Ray comes across a certain way with everything, like the slightest thing upsets him which leads me to think that maybe he’s actually just a very sensitive person who takes things the wrong way. Not saying he is but I think it’s possible.

I think drumming up the online mob who attack people is completely wrong and isn’t helping anyone. All Ray has done is drive a further wedge between fans.

 

[SupermanFan]

I imagine the message is for those more upset with it rather than those who merely ask about it or would prefer the booyah. That's my read on it.

That’s fair, I just think given how dismissive he is of that line to me it more comes across like he he’s attacking anyone who even would dare want it.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I feel like I've broken things down quite a bit for you and it's clear you aren't actually reading my posts. I'm done.

 

[obredaan]

But he's not saying people who want Cyborg to say "Booyah" need to reflect on themselves. He's saying if you're mad that Cyborg won't say "Booyah", but have not historically cared about any other characters' not saying their catchphrases then try asking yourself why that is.

Fisher is just throwing out an assumption in order to make his argument/point. I don't know how anyone can take his comment seriously when we all know why he's so triggered by "Booyah". He can't argue the point so he makes childish assumptions and whataboutisms.

The fact that some people are so defensive over this "Booyah" catchphrase on both sides really fascinates me.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

WB just never seems to be able to make up their mind, is what it all comes down to. Nolan Batman stuff does gangbusters, so they want Superman and all the other movies to be serious too. They see Avengers and all the connected universe stuff do well, they want a piece of that too. And when things don't turn out the way they want reception wise, they try to pull a complete 180 and that also doesn't work, surprise surprise.

You want Cyborg to say booyah and do other fan service stuff, don't keep bringing Zack Snyder back to make your movies. You've been in business with him many times before, know what you're getting with him. They just keep making rash decisions far too late in the game. Now they're still paying the price even after all these years.

 

[Venom 1988]

The are whole articles written about Cyborg not saying "Booyah" and we don't get that with the other heroes.

That's probably because for better or worse for a lot of people Cyborg is tied to the the Teen Titans cartoon. So when people think of the character, they think of that show and his catchphrase. The other characters have had decades of appearing in various different mediums and portrayed as light-hearted, dark and serious, and everything in between.

I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing, but neither he nor Snyder should be surprised a lot of people would want that.

 

[SupermanFan]

I feel like I've broken things down quite a bit for you and it's clear you aren't actually reading my posts. I'm done.

You’re doing that to me, you just don’t like that I’m not taking the same side as you.

 

[Da-Scribe]

You’re doing that to me, you just don’t like that I’m not taking the same side as you.

Lol sure.

 

[obredaan]

I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing, but neither he nor Snyder should be surprised a lot of people would want that.

Exactly. I don't see why they need to be so defensive when fans are simply asking a question? Snyder's "hell no" felt a little dismissive. And now Fisher is doubling down on that attitude. Just let it go and let the fans have their debates/arguments.

 

[Schlosser85]

The feeling I always get with Ray Fisher's tweets is that he has a really inflated sense of self-importance. He's far from crucial to the success of DC Films and I'd say hardly anyone would recognize him if he walked down a regular street in a regular town or city. Even plenty of network TV actors are higher up the Hollywood food chain than him.

He's got a vocal group of fans on twitter for sure but in comparison to a lot of other crowds on the internet I get the sense they are rather small minority.

Well he's compared himself to John Lewis and Rosa Parks, so yea, his inflated sense of his own virtually nonexistent importance has been pretty obvious for a while.

No one in the mainstream knows or cares who Ray Fisher is.

 

[Aurakles]

Fisher isn't important, but is also controlling mobs of devoted cultists.

He's powerless and yet is misusing his power.

 

[heatvision38]

Exactly. I don't see why they need to be so defensive when fans are simply asking a question? Snyder's "hell no" felt a little dismissive. And now Fisher is doubling down on that attitude. Just let it go and let the fans have their debates/arguments.

I think a lot of times it just depends on where you are on a position to begin with. I saw Zack’s "Hell no" and thought it was funny. The people likely to see what he wrote are fans of his.

 

[heatvision38]

Well he's compared himself to John Lewis and Rosa Parks, so yea, his inflated sense of his own virtually nonexistent importance has been pretty obvious for a while.

No one in the mainstream knows or cares who Ray Fisher is.

I've often wondered what people would say of what Rosa Parks did if she did that today. Of course over time she is revered, but in the moment? There would be a whole wide range of responses. I remember when the NBA players refused to play for a couple of games after they got back into the bubble and I saw plenty of people asking, "What's the point of that? They're just wasting their time." Of course some people weren't willing to see the other side of it (they got NBA arenas and MLB parks to host voting locations among other things). If the beloved Mohammed Ali played today, would he be told to shut up and box?

 

[Schlosser85]

I've often wondered what people would say of what Rosa Parks did if she did that today. Of course over time she is revered, but in the moment, there would be a whole wide range of responses. I remember when the NBA players refused to play for a couple of games after they got back into the bubble and I saw plenty of people asking, "What's the point of that? They're just wasting their time." Of course some people weren't willing to see the other side of it (they got NBA arenas and MLB parks to host voting locations among other things). If the beloved Mohammed Ali played today, would he be told to shut up and box?

Fox News would hate Ali’s guts.

 

[heatvision38]

Fox News would hate Ali’s guts.

Yup. He'd be labeled a socialist or communist. Often times, when people are doing the right, yet unpopular thing, they get criticized for it heavily at the time. It's only with retrospect that we can see the value in what they did and it's often not clear at the time.

 

[TheVileOne]

Ray Fisher is not Muhammed Ali.

 

[heatvision38]

Ray Fisher is not Muhammed Ali.

That actually supports my point.

 

[Aurakles]

Saying "I am inspired by X" is not the same as saying "I am X".