Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 1

[FunkMiller]

Dump everyone, including Gal. Start fresh, no association with the current DCeU. That’s the only way to reboot. Either blow it all up, or weather the storm.

5th highest grossing comic book movie in the USA says that’s... unlikely. Gal is pure, solid, 24 carat gold to WB. Quite right, too.

 

[Flemm]

Given the increased importance of the international box office, I think the appeal of the extended universe becomes even more significant.

Some fans talk about Marvel having better marketing overseas, but I think the extended universe movies have mostly marketed themselves. If anything, the impact seems to have been greater overseas than in the US.

A quick comparison of overseas box office for Marvel studios movies:

Phase 1: IM 266, TIH 128, FA 193, Thor 268, IM2 311

Avengers: 895

Phase 2, first part: IM3 805, TDW 438, WS 454, GotG 440

Age of Ultron: 946

Phase 2, second part: AM 339, CW 745, DS 445, GotG2 475, HC 545

The value of the dollar increased by a lot starting just after the first Guardians movie, which deflates the numbers in the 2nd part of phase 2. But, in spite of that, there is a clear trend, particularly the massive increase after the first Avengers movie.

Interestingly, domestic audiences seem to have been impacted a little less, in certain cases. For example, Doctor Strange had a modest domestic box office run, basically like an average or slightly above-average superhero origin movie, but it did extremely well overseas.

So, I think, from the studio's perspective, that makes the extended universe even more attractive.

I doubt they will abandon the concept, but moving forward will be tricky, since the early stages have been poorly conceived and managed.

 

[MbJ]

Like others have already said we've seen audiences accept the idea of a continuity that has the same actors but doesn't necessarily align. The X-Men films are a continuity nightmare but that didn't stop people from enjoying Deadpool or Logan, and nobody was asking why Deadpool didn't have a sewn up mouth and forearm blades even though Ryan Reynolds was still playing him.

You can move forward with a softly rebooted continuity that still retains Gal and keeps the WW movie in canon.


Whats likely to happen is a gradual Phase out of the Snyderverse.
Heres how it works.

WB is going to focus A LOT on the Batman cinematic universe.Theyve already begun prepping for this probably because they knew JL was a bomb.

Now this Batman cinematic universe will be in a completely different continuity from thd Snyderverse.Lets call this new DCEU Continuity:The Reeveverse.

Every New DC Film we see from now on will be in the Reeveverse.

The WW trilogy,SS trilogy and posdible Aquaman trilogy will however continue to exist in the Snyderverse.Once this trilogies are over.It marks the end of the Snyderverse.Their slots will be taken over by films set in the Reeveverse.

Superman,Flash,GL will be rebooted in the Reeveverse eventualky.When that happens,Expect to see a JL reboot with this characters.[/QUOTE]

That is basically what I am expecting too.

 

[FunkMiller]

Like others have already said we've seen audiences accept the idea of a continuity that has the same actors but doesn't necessarily align. The X-Men films are a continuity nightmare but that didn't stop people from enjoying Deadpool or Logan, and nobody was asking why Deadpool didn't have a sewn up mouth and forearm blades even though Ryan Reynolds was still playing him.

You can move forward with a softly rebooted continuity that still retains Gal and keeps the WW movie in canon.

Easily. Divorce Gal from this awful universe and let her go off on her own, and nobody will bat an eyelid. Same goes for Momoa. Only Cavill and Affleck are burned by it. The audience just want good movies. A slavish devotion to continuity is only cared about big old nerdy comic book fans like us.

 

[Patchwork Man]

I can't believe somebody wrote "Dump Gal"...

 

[writer0327]

I don't get why everyone says DC should focus on standalone movies....most of the films in the MCU are standalone movies. Every movie can't be a team-up so it only stands to reason that the standalone will make up the bulk of the DCEU.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Man of Steel, Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman are standalone films. So is BvS.

Standalone simply means it's a self-contained story, no cliffhanger, no halt to the narrative. Standalone does not preclude a connection to another film (most of the MCU is connected).

 

[Micromind]

Aquaman and Shazam will be standalone movies.

 

[FunkMiller]

Man of Steel, Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman are standalone films. So is BvS.

Standalone simply means it's a self-contained story, no cliffhanger, no halt to the narrative. Standalone does not preclude a connection to another film (most of the MCU is connected).

The term standalone in this context is meant to refer to films with no connection or reference to others within an overall narrative. None of the DCEU movies have been like that.

 

[Micromind]

MoS was a standalone movie in true sense.

 

[Patchwork Man]

The term standalone in this context is meant to refer to films with no connection or reference to others within an overall narrative. None of the DCEU movies have been like that.

If you want to go with "no Easter eggs" and all that, then we haven't had a true standalone CBM from any studio in a while. Maybe Fant4stic?

 

[FlareKnight]

I'm curious to see where we go from here.

Wonder Woman is fine and should keep getting movies for the time being. We'll see how things shape out with Aquaman. If that can perform in a solid manner and be good then he should keep getting films.


But yeah I think Batman and Superman are going to require changes. Go ahead and make a few movies with a new Batman and detaching him from the Justice League universe. And who knows what happens with Superman. Not sure if they recast him or not and where that goes.

For now I think they just need to make some good movies and not worry about connecting to anything bigger. At least not until they develop the characters to a point where people want to see them be brought together in some manner.

 

[TheFuture]

Whats likely to happen is a gradual Phase out of the Snyderverse.
Heres how it works.

WB is going to focus A LOT on the Batman cinematic universe.Theyve already begun prepping for this probably because they knew JL was a bomb.

Now this Batman cinematic universe will be in a completely different continuity from thd Snyderverse.Lets call this new DCEU Continuity:The Reeveverse.

Every New DC Film we see from now on will be in the Reeveverse.

The WW trilogy,SS trilogy and posdible Aquaman trilogy will however continue to exist in the Snyderverse.Once this trilogies are over.It marks the end of the Snyderverse.Their slots will be taken over by films set in the Reeveverse.

Superman,Flash,GL will be rebooted in the Reeveverse eventualky.When that happens,Expect to see a JL reboot with this characters.

I kind of like where you're going. It is possible to bill Reeves' Batverse as its own thing for now while winding down the Snyderverse, allowing Gal to do her thing while keeping other aspects of the verse that works.

Then if they do feel like merging the best of both verses together it can be done.....not like the source material is lacking in assisting such a merge either.

If I can get a MOS sequel with Cavill where he gets a clear run at portraying the character, then the Snyderverse will have fulfilled its duty as far as I'd be concerned.

 

[GreenKToo]

Like others have already said we've seen audiences accept the idea of a continuity that has the same actors but doesn't necessarily align. The X-Men films are a continuity nightmare but that didn't stop people from enjoying Deadpool or Logan, and nobody was asking why Deadpool didn't have a sewn up mouth and forearm blades even though Ryan Reynolds was still playing him.

You can move forward with a softly rebooted continuity that still retains Gal and keeps the WW movie in canon.


Whats likely to happen is a gradual Phase out of the Snyderverse.
Heres how it works.

WB is going to focus A LOT on the Batman cinematic universe.Theyve already begun prepping for this probably because they knew JL was a bomb.

Now this Batman cinematic universe will be in a completely different continuity from thd Snyderverse.Lets call this new DCEU Continuity:The Reeveverse.

Every New DC Film we see from now on will be in the Reeveverse.

The WW trilogy,SS trilogy and posdible Aquaman trilogy will however continue to exist in the Snyderverse.Once this trilogies are over.It marks the end of the Snyderverse.Their slots will be taken over by films set in the Reeveverse.

Superman,Flash,GL will be rebooted in the Reeveverse eventualky.When that happens,Expect to see a JL reboot with this characters.

Ironic that a guy named Reeves, who's gonna make a Batman film, could end up saving superman also.

 

[writer0327]

The term standalone in this context is meant to refer to films with no connection or reference to others within an overall narrative. None of the DCEU movies have been like that.

Most of the MCU lineup has been of this sort, with the connections and references all made for the most part in the end credit scenes. They have done it to perfection. Now that DC has gotten on board with the end credit scenes, maybe this is how things will be going forward.

 

[MbJ]

I would highly disagree with the notion BVS is a standalone film. Even if you're discounting it as a crossover, there are very significant portions of the film that only exist to set up the two-part Justice League movie that was originally planned. The Knightmare. The infamous trailer sequence. Flash visiting from the future.

A standalone movie in my mind, in the context of a shared universe, is something that's intended to be viewed and enjoyed as a singular film and not a lead-in to something else.

 

[Micromind]

Wan is setting up his own universe, whether it manages to take off or not .. we will have to wait and see.

Similarly, if WW 2 is a success, then expect Patty Jenkins to develop WW-verse further. They are already moving ahead of what Snyder had established, though technically speaking, both WW and Aquaman are in Snyder-verse, but in name only.

 

[writer0327]

I would highly disagree with the notion BVS is a standalone film. Even if you're discounting it as a crossover, there are very significant portions of the film that only exist to set up the two-part Justice League movie that was originally planned. The Knightmare. The infamous trailer sequence. Flash visiting from the future.

A standalone movie in my mind, in the context of a shared universe, is something that's intended to be viewed and enjoyed as a singular film and not a lead-in to something else.

BvS is the polar opposite of a standalone film. You are 100% correct, the film was used as a prelude to the Justice League, as the secondary title clearly indicates. Mostly everything in BvS was either a callback to a previous film or a set-up for the next.

 

[FunkMiller]

If you want to go with "no Easter eggs" and all that, then we haven't had a true standalone CBM from any studio in a while. Maybe Fant4stic?

I'm not sure what point your trying to make here. Every film in the DCEU (with the exception of MoS, which was never meant to kickstart a shared universe) has featured heavy and obvious references, connections and call backs to the other movies. Hell, BvS stops dead two hours in to deliver a painfully executed advertisement for Justice League.

When people use the term 'standalone' when talking about future DC movies, they're using the term as a shorthand to mean that the movies they are describing with have no references, connections, easter eggs or mentions of any kind of any other DC movies. Essentially, the shared DCEU will be dead.

 

[Dark Raven]

I can't believe somebody wrote "Dump Gal"...

If they reboot and dump Gal, then if in their reboot the new WW is a complete disaster, then what are they going to do? WB would be the laughing stock of the town for dumping a beloved actress in the role after such a successful movie only to replace her with someone else who could turn out to be a flop.

And what if the rest of the new reboot is a flop, or alternatively, they manage to be successful with everyone else except for Wonder Woman?

When EON rebooted James Bond for Casino Royale, they still kept on Judi Dench, who was M in the previous continuity, because they liked the actress. They didn't care that she had just played in the Pierce Brosnan films where there was a Bond who was in the middle or end of his career and now was M at the beginning of his career.

And the general audience got over it and accepted her, even though it might not have made sense. People just took it as a different M but played by the same actress. Or they forgot. Or they just overlooked it and didn't care.

They can do the same with Gal. Even if they reboot everyone else around her, she could be like Judi Dench and still be carried over from the old continuity. After all, she is the only one in the DCEU who is universally loved and who has been mega successful. She is really the star of the DCEU when you think about it.

And thinking of other examples, Christopher Lee played Dracula several times in different movies, even though in each one he died at the end.

And in the Sergio Leone Dollar Trilogy, Clint Eastwood's character, the Man with No Name, remained constant as a character. But what was interesting is that they often reused the same cast from previous movies but as different characters.

So Gian Maria Volontè played Ramon in A Fistful of Dollars (but was credited as John Wells for that movie), while in For A Few Dollars More, he used his real name but played El Indio. Similarly, Lee Van Cleef played Colonel Douglas Mortimer, an ally of the Man With No Name in For A Few Dollars More, but in The Good, The Bad and the Ugly, he was now a villain named Angel Eyes.

And there are other examples. It's been done before in many movies. They can keep Gal even if they change the cast, and it won't really confuse the audiences. They'll learn to accept it.

 

[FunkMiller]

If they reboot and dump Gal, then if in their reboot the new WW is a complete disaster, then what are they going to do? WB would be the laughing stock of the town for dumping a beloved actress in the role after such a successful movie only to replace her with someone else who could turn out to be a flop.
.

There is more chance of me playing Batman in the next movie than there is of them dumping Gal Gadot. She is the one great thing to come out of this garbage fire.

She's a huge box office draw, and an incredible role model for young women. She's served in the bloody military, is a dedicated mother, and basically doesn't appear to give a **** about playing the Hollywood game. There's a reason she works so well as Wonder Woman.

WB would be clinically insane to even think about not supporting her career for years to come. WW 2 makes a billion at the box office, regardless of whatever other bungling is going on around it.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Gal isn't going anywhere. People who think she should be given her walking papers are probably the same ones who go "Snyder ruined my childhood."

 

[Flemm]

I would highly disagree with the notion BVS is a standalone film.

Agreed, it was an extended universe film, and it opened like one.

BvS had basically the same Friday opening as Avengers. Now, granted, that was the Friday before Easter, so we can say that it was somewhat inflated by that, but the problem wasn't the opening, it was the audience and critics' reception of the movie, and the fallout, which we are witnessing now.

The audience just want good movies.

They have to start with that. They tried to jump directly to the "Avengers" stage of the process, but they didn't lay the groundwork.

Logically, the solution is to do some high-quality movies that don't connect with one another, except perhaps with an easter egg or minor reference here and there.

Once the audience has responded to that, and connected with the individual characters, then the crossover can eventually have the desired effect of amplifying audience interest.

 

[Greenlite]

Agree with most of what people are saying, except dumping Gal, LOL. Mainstream press, feminists groups, civilians will eat you up like Parademons on [BLACKOUT]Steppenwolf[/BLACKOUT], that's worse than firing Hugh Jackman from X-men universe or Vin Disel from FF.

 

[Greenlite]

Like WBwins said, GA don't care about continuity, they just want good movies, who cares about Deadpool retconned etc, it made 800M+ WW without China!

Interesting that the Fox model is what WB should be studying right now, and guess where the Batman director is jumping ship from? Take that opportunity to get some contacts/tips from his team