The Dark Knight Rises "Redemption"

Rasputin911

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I know lots of people think that "redemption" should be the major theme of the next film. I am personally still on the fence about that...but that's another point.

What i wanted to ask was - what if Batman's redemption in the next film would be realizing that his decision at the end of TDK was the wrong decision. That deceiving the public into venerating a cop-killer is not heroic at all. So he/Gordon let the truth out and finally put their faith in the people of Gotham.

Don't get me wrong, i can see why Batman decided quickly and went that route. And in the short-term it might be the right decision. But in the end it validates the Joker: The "hero" lies to/manipulates Gotham and protects the reputation of a psychotic killer. I think slowly realizing that this decision wasn't the right one would be interesting...
 
As soon as Gordon/Bats reveal this information to anyone...Everything that Harv did would be for nothing and most importantly...

...The Joker would win...
 
But the Joker cannot win.
 
Thus...This information cannot be revealed...

Which is why Bats "did those things, and murdered those people"!
 
As soon as Gordon/Bats reveal this information to anyone...Everything that Harv did would be for nothing and most importantly...

...The Joker would win...

Couldn't you say the Joker wins by making Batman/Gordon deceive Gotham?
Thus revealing that the heroes are really hypocritical schemers?

He also succeeded in "casting out" Batman from society...making him a rogue rather than a hero in the public eye
 
But the Joker cannot win.

maybe Batman could realize that this isn't about "winning" or "losing". It isn't about him and the Joker. Its about the people of Gotham and their right to the truth
 
Well, they did do the wrong thing. So whatever happens, the truth needs to come out. Batman is supposed to "believe in Gotham" after all.
 
I don't see what the big deal is... As far as we know, Two-Face/Harvey Dent is dead. He thus cannot be punished by Gotham's courts for his wrongdoings.

That said, if his wrongdoings are revealed, all of the criminals he put away (legitimately), would be released. These criminals are too dangerous to keep on the streets, so it doesn't matter if The Joker "wins" or not... Batman and Gordon are telling a harmless lie to keep the harmFUL mobsters in prison.

The crimes Dent committed would outdo the legitimate prosecutions he made, which I wouldn't want to happen. They're making Gotham that much safer by protecting the reputation Gotham actually knew. Why would you expose what Dent did (whether or not that's the honest thing to do) if that would just bring over 100 angry mobsters back onto the streets?
 
I'd rather just have Two-Face back myself. Bust out of wherever their holding him, and go on a death rampage. Whatever little conscience he had died at the place his love died. He's now completely Two-Face. Batman catches him, and Gotham learns the truth.


Yeah, it's not terribly original. But it'd still be cool. I really liked Aaron Eckhart Two-Face.
 
Speaking of "Redemption", and in terms of using for a theme in the next film. What exactly is Batman attempting to redeem? His heroic status? With who, the people of gotham? Because as far as I can tell he was never directly perceived as one. They (the people) demanded that he turned himself in when things began getting ugly. Cops being killed, judges and Police Commissioners being murdered...

So who is he seeking redemption with? Himself?

Is he somehow trying to justify the decisions he made (to pursue the joker)/ his actions in light of Rache's death?

Maybe it's a bit of both. But what exactly is Batman attempting to redeem? and if that's the case, then perhaps forgiveness would be a more suitable theme
 
yeah forgiveness sounds better since you've explained it like that. but wouldn't Gordon get in trouble for covering up the death I mean isn't that conspiracy for murder or perverting the course of justice? what ever its called.
 
I think redemption is overated because batman wants to be an outcast and also being the outcast he gets better at being what we all know batman is "the worlds greatest detective".
 
Of course people think Redemption will be the theme.

That's where Nolan has led us in terms of our preception. Does Nolan ever give us a heads up on ANYTHING? Nay my friends.

Take any clues, assumptions, ideas, evidence you've gathered from the last 2 movies and just toss them in the garbage, toilet, sink, or lake. Because the man will do something that none of us will see coming or can imagine.

Thus, what makes a great movie.

- Jow
 
plus the third movie will be like watching a seperate movie all together...thats how the dark knight was for example you could have seen the dark knight without seeing batman begins because it barely had connections to each other and thats how nolan will make the next film, its own movie
 
I'm sure the truth will come out. Batman will be cleared and yes everyone will know about Dent. As for his arrests they'll all be dismissed. The mob criminals will be let out. By this time though a new criminal power will have emerged.
The struggle for power goes on. It's Gotham after all.
 
I think the next film's theme should be "Identity" and not "Redemption." It's not like Batman was a sweetheart before the Harvey Dent thing anyway. Vindicating him takes away the tragic element of the character.
 
^ The Wayne Identity..?
 
The Wayne Identity, The Batman Identity, Edward Nygma's Identity, whatever.

Black Mask and his false face gang might make for a cool set of villains with that type of theme since they kindof correlate.

I've been having dreams about it. I'm going to write what I think as soon as I can put it all together.
 
I think you guys are missing what I'm talking about when I say identity. I'm not talking about identity in the literal sense, but with the deeper definition of personal identity.

Who is Bruce Wayne? With the love of his life gone and his public image nothing more than a public idiot, how does he come to terms with who he really is now that Batman is considered a criminal?

Simultaneously, after The Joker's rampage the criminal circuit in Gotham is equally tarnished. The mob has to struggle to re-establish its identity of being "high brow" criminals while at the same time you have freaks and loons like The Joker, Riddler, Black Mask, whoever, trying to take control of the underground that used to belong to them.

Above all, what is the identity of Gotham City now that its been completely torn apart politically and socially thanks to The Joker, Harvey Dent's death and Batman's status as a murderer. How does a city survive when it's so overrun with crime that no one wants to live in it?

Really think about what happened in New York City after 9/11 or New Orleans after Katrina and then think about what Gotham would be like now that The Joker has run a muck. The city politics, economics, tourism, philanthropy, crime, everything...it all changes. Gotham has to reinvent itself.

With that said, so do its characters.

Bruce Wayne would have to do some deep soul searching to remember why he even became Batman in the first place after the abysmal failure he experienced with The Joker.

All the while, various small-timers such as Black Mask, Firefly, whoever, would try and exploit the current state of confusion in Gotham by trying to usurp control of the underground from the mafia, forcing Batman/The Police Force to make a difficult decision as to whether they should protect the mob and let the nuts rule Gotham or try for the near impossible task of tackling both at the same time.

Edward Nygma becomes the backbone of this story, learning Batman's true identity and stalking/preying on his psyche, becoming the true villain of the story but in more of a mental context than a physical one. He pushes Batman's brain to its limits and shows no signs of backing down. He could also reveal Harvey Dent's crimes to the public in an attempt to completely destroy Gotham's morale, but Batman steps up to the plate and becomes "the hero Gotham needs."

I really think the media could play a huge role in this movie, almost like with Robocop or "The Dark Knight Returns."

I had a dream last night that the Bat symbol came zooming into the screen like it did with BB and TDK at the beginning. The difference was, instead of it being in bats or blue flames, the backdrop was various news channels reporting on the death of harvey dent/batman being wanted/the joker being incarcerated/sal maroni's death etc. while the bat symbol zoomed in from the center as white noise until it filled the entire screen.

The biggest thing of all: How is Batman supposed to fight crime if every cop in town is gunning for him? It's hard to be a superhero when everyone thinks you're a murderer.

See, it all ties into confusion of identity. I have a feeling that this could be the reoccurring theme of the next movie. It makes way more sense than simply "redemption," which is always nice to see on film but has been done time and time again.
blah blah blah
 
yes i totally agree with your theme...when everybody started saying redemption i thought it was too obvious and cleche...i like your idea on the identity theme how characters could tie together with it such as black mask, riddler and batman. I think if they play the cards right their could even be a fourth story which could connect to the first movie...i was thinking talia al ghul could come back to take revenge on batman for ras' death and she could have hired mercinaries to try and kill batman... i barely started thinking about it lol
 
I don't see what the big deal is... As far as we know, Two-Face/Harvey Dent is dead. He thus cannot be punished by Gotham's courts for his wrongdoings.

That said, if his wrongdoings are revealed, all of the criminals he put away (legitimately), would be released. These criminals are too dangerous to keep on the streets, so it doesn't matter if The Joker "wins" or not... Batman and Gordon are telling a harmless lie to keep the harmFUL mobsters in prison.

The crimes Dent committed would outdo the legitimate prosecutions he made, which I wouldn't want to happen. They're making Gotham that much safer by protecting the reputation Gotham actually knew. Why would you expose what Dent did (whether or not that's the honest thing to do) if that would just bring over 100 angry mobsters back onto the streets?
Did you completely miss it? He had to take the blame so the people of Gotham didn't lose hope and faith in their hero "because sometimes, people deserve to have their faith rewarded" It had nothing to do with the mobsters. The major mobsters are all dead anyways.
 

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