Reintroducing Superman: An Open Discussion

[KalMart]

At the time, it seemed like an amazing gesture in the loyalty and dedication from the production crew.



...in hindsight, it was a colossal waste of money that could have easily gone somewhere more efficient.

And this $200M+ budget is all with getting tax breaks shooting in Sydney.

 

[Webhead2006]

Well it would be nice to say he is alien with his ship and maybe some kryptonian writing on it and all that. Then maybe at the end of the film the fos is formed from something left over in his ship that his parents kept and then maybe at the very end of the film he learns that he is officially an alien, and his planets name/parents name-his kryptonian name.

 

[Webhead2006]

Did they even get any tax breaks?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I know District gets brought up a lot now as a case for low-budgeted flicks, but even the director has admitted he had a lot of factors on his side that most Hollwood projects don't. That movie was shot almost entirely on a handycam, in a landfill, no-name actors, and with well-connected sfx experts. The budget was absolutely understandable considering these conditions.

It's practically impossible to work with that type of money for a modern blockbuster. This isn't even an issue of knowing how to budget, but mere logistics of filming costs. Shooting on-location in big cities is already a hefty amount. You factor in your stars, a worldwide marketing campaign, massive cgi post-processing....it's very easy for those dollar amounts to go up.

I wasn't implying that the next Superman movie should only cost 30mil, as it was obvious that District 9 had things working for it that most movies don't, but I still think that it is dumb that the new running budgets for blockbusters is 175 to 250mil.

I understand what you are saying but I refuse to believe that it is impossible to make a blockbuster for 150mil in 2009. And yes I know it isn't easy to keep the budget down and yeah I know it's hard to make movies.

Stars don't even really matter as much as they use to, I wonder when Hollywood is going to figure that out? They are just wasting money right there with paying Z-grades A- grade prices.

I'm not lumping in the marketing with the cost of the film because those aren't exactly the same thing.

So let me just simply sum it up:

A special effects movie will always cost a s**tload for the reasons you say but (and I could be wrong, after all I don't work in the biz) I still don't think that it's impossible to make a special effects picture for under 175mil.

 

[Webhead2006]

I agree spidey with a 150-200million budget with the right budgeting on all factors it could all work out and triple its production costs in BO run.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

To add to that post:

I think that Warner Brothers is crazy if they spend another 200+mil on a reboot.

If they do they better never admit to it and just use the old 150mil line.

 

[Webhead2006]

I see that happening too, and since we know they want this one to be tightly controlled and all that they dont want someone to be all willy nelly with production budget.

 

[Crook]

A special effects movie will always cost a s**tload for the reasons you say but (and I could be wrong, after all I don't work in the biz) I still don't think that it's impossible to make a special effects picture for under 175mil.

It's most definitely do-able, but the question is whether such a constraint would affect the look/scale of the film. TF1 was around 150, but Bay had massive connections within ILM and the military to keep costs down. ST was 150, but also had plenty of green-screen and studio backlot shootings.

Anything that's shot real, and is massive in scale, will always take up the majority of that budget. Look at Nolan's Batman films. Nothing really extravagant, but shooting in places like Hong Kong and Chicago, in the busiest districts, don't come cheap. I don't presume someone of Nolan's indie sensibilities to ask for, or spend money in an unnecessary manner.

You are right with anything in the 200+ range, though. I'm looking at Pirates and Spidey.

Avatar I'll make an exception for since it's always expensive to fund next-gen technology.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It's most definitely do-able, but the question is whether such a constraint would affect the look/scale of the film. TF1 was around 150, but Bay had massive connections within ILM and the military to keep costs down. ST was 150, but also had plenty of green-screen and studio backlot shootings.

Anything that's shot real, and is massive in scale, will always take up the majority of that budget. Look at Nolan's Batman films. Nothing really extravagant, but shooting in places like Hong Kong and Chicago, in the busiest districts, don't come cheap. I don't presume someone of Nolan's indie sensibilities to ask for, or spend money in an unnecessary manner.

You are right with anything in the 200+ range, though. I'm looking at Pirates and Spidey.

Avatar I'll make an exception for since it's always expensive to fund next-gen technology.

Show and Jamie said that Trek really cost 210 to 220mil.

I think the problem is that things are more lax with the studios, they just throw money at every movie with even the slightest hint that it could do big money. And too much on location shooting, bad planing and useless use of expensive CGI.

 

[Venom'sDad]

But stating out differently than the rest of the pack could add to the uniqueness of the overall approach. I think Superman, in particular, could benefit greatly from that...to more of a degree than a new look at the origin from the outset.

KalMart, I understand what you are saying and really we are thinking alike. I apologize for not explaining in full how I envision an Origin story. It's just this notion that a fan must see action in the first 10-20 minute is mute. I don't think you need to sacrifice story for action.

I too believe Superman should be already established with out the story being bogged down with useless necessities. Follow what I'm saying here. Do the Origin on Krypton and the end of their civilization, introduce future adversaries, the chaos of the end and the gift of a Savior sent to Earth. Krypton blows up, hint at the future adversaries existence/survival, baby crash lands on Earth, and Ma & Pa Kent finds the baby. The very next scene, he Superman in Metropolis. Dealing with the villain of the day.

Meanwhile, in spots, he is reflecting on life and lesson learn from Ma &Pa Kent and/or his childhood growing up different on this planet, and/or discovering who he is, all as it relates to the current situation of the moment. You follow what I'm saying here? Can you envision what I'm saying? This is what I mean by his Origin. It does not have to follow or playout in chronological order. We are on a journey, with the title character, of discovery as he confront the situation of what he must do, who he must become.

 

[KalMart]

Did they even get any tax breaks?

Maybe they got to write off the corn.

 

[Webhead2006]

That can all work well.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Maybe the got to write off the corn.

 

[KalMart]

I dunno....I'd still want to hold off on more of the 'introspective' stuff and really set up more of the momentum and energy from the outset. Kind of a different perspective to start out with...almost as if we're taking him in as a this great mysterious being just like the rest of that fictional world is, with the difference being we the audience know that he and Clark Kent are the same person. And then later, we're 'let in' to where he comes from and what made him what he is.....rather than having the 'inside track', so to speak, from the outset. Introduce the phenomenon of the concept AS a phenomenon before we get in there and identify/relate to him, if that makes any sense.

Maybe a wacky idea....but even wait to 'reveal' that he and Clark Kent are the same person...even though we see Clark Kent the reporter along the way....and the first time we're actually shown that is when he's changing from Supes into Clark. But that would obviously go against the 'iconic' shirt rip (which I'd save for the last shot of the first film). Just some ideas to stir up the approach a bit.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Sounds like to me KalMart, we are saying the same thing. I think you may need to read what I'm saying and what you just said... we both envision the same path.

 

[Wally West]

Both just a tad off...

So I keep hearing...My bad. I thought boxofficemojo was a reliable site. Apparently not when it comes to budgets. I'm curious though, what were the actual budgets for SR and star trek?

 

[Webhead2006]

That would be an interesting way to go. Though i could say we start with his first day in metropolis and he was just hired at the planet, something crazy happens and he decides this is the best moment to become his new hero identity he came up with, and we get his first public save, is dubbed Superman..... Then like others have said through the course of the film we learn about his past on krypton, his smallville days, and why he decided to become public in his crime fighting.

 

[Webhead2006]

trek was likely around 200-220million my guess, as for SR that is a tricky one do u just factor from when singer started-end or do you count all the failed attempts from the 90s/early 00s.

 

[KalMart]

That would be an interesting way to go. Though i could say we start with his first day in metropolis and he was just hired at the planet, something crazy happens and he decides this is the best moment to become his new hero identity he came up with, and we get his first public save, is dubbed Superman..... Then like others have said through the course of the film we learn about his past on krypton, his smallville days, and why he decided to become public in his crime fighting.

I'd like Lois to be rushing to the scene of a near disaster that was averted by something that people just can't explain...she's there to get the scoop, but finds out there's already some tall guy in glasses that she's never seen before who says he's from the Daily Planet too...interviewing some cops and bystanders. She doesn't think much of him, but she's a bit put off by being beaten to the punch. He tries to introduce himself, but she cuts him off when she asks another question to the cop about just what got that speeding bus with bomb-rigged terrorists stuck up in the top floor of that abandoned building.

"Who knows...", says a cop. "People said some sort of hurricane or something just came in and....it's crazy, who knows?"

She then gets that guy back by stealing a cab from him...but when she arrives back at the Daily Planet...there's that friggin' guy again...already there in the office! WTF? It's then that he's introduced to her by Perry as Clark Kent, the newly-hired reporter.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^Thats sounds like a great introduction...I can easily picture it.

 

[Webhead2006]

That is a good intro for the two of them i would be down with that. So thinking guys, for first public save/rescue what should it be next time around?

 

[KalMart]

Sounds like to me KalMart, we are saying the same thing. I think you may need to read what I'm saying and what you just said... we both envision the same path.

Yeah, but my take is that we don't see Krypton/Jor-El in the first movie. we star the second movie kinda like STM with a council meeting in which Jor-El is trying to explain his findings on the planet's unsettling status, only to be met with skepticism, etc.

And I'm not looking to sacrifice story for action...in fact, I don't see anything being 'sacrificed'. Just rearranged for establishing a different take on the momentum of things and, in fact, eventually getting more out of something that would normally be shoe-horned into the first 10-20 minutes as introductory backstory.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

That is a good intro for the two of them i would be down with that. So thinking guys, for first public save/rescue what should it be next time around?

It shouldn't be a plane because thats way overplayed...how about a Train?

And no that wouldn't be copying Spider-Man 2 and The Incredibles.

 

[KalMart]

That is a good intro for the two of them i would be down with that. So thinking guys, for first public save/rescue what should it be next time around?

Start the film off with an explosion on a high-rise rooftop blowing Lois off the roof and sending her hurtling towards the streets below. We're falling with her as debris is everywhere and the deafening sound of the speeding wind increases with her velocity, intertwined with her screaming. Then the huge chunks of debris seem to vaporize around her...hit by what looks like a thin beam of energy out of nowhere. Involuntarily she glances off to the side and sees....something...something strange. A blur of red and blue that seems to be speeding towards her....almost looks like a man or...then she screams again as it reaches her....


Then whoom!...cut to the Superman logo on black screen and a deep musical sting. No opening credits, just the logo. And then to the bustling streets of Metropolis on a sunny day..."Two Days Earlier"...and go from there as Lois bursts out of a taxi cab grasping her coat and notepad, and she runs towards the crowd of people surrounding the aforementioned near-disaster scene. We'll finish the rest of that opening roof-explosion scene when we get to that part and introduce...well....you know who....to the world.


Somethin' like that.

 

[Octoberist]

yeah, they have to reintroduce the characters without doing a whole recap.

Like what the slash film.com podcast stated, the fun thing about most comics is that you can read Superman #1000 and still jump right into it. (excluding cross overs, which is now the norm).