Returns or 89?

[Ultra Lantern]

Batman Returns

 

[OutRiddled]

I was wondering your guys' opinions on the fight scenes in 89 and BR, didnt know if it needed its own thread or not.

Which film do you think has better (or more enjoyable) fight scenes? Personally for me I like 89's better.

It's a tie between the cathedral fight and the rooftop fight with Catwoman.

 

[Indy Flash]

Batman 89.

 

[Blue Sugar]

Returns, easily.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

Batman 89 will always be the best Batman film ever. EVER (unless the next films top it of course)

 

[Mace Dolex]

I'd go with B'89 simply for the memories of all the hype surrounding it, with Batman Returns they writers had a chance to learn from their mistake of not letting the villians overshadow the main star but alas it didn't happen that way instead we got a weird, creepy almost depressing tale of Batman in which once again the villians take center stage.

And while it was a good idea for future installments had we seen Tim Burton's weird take on Riddler or Two-Face those damn soccer moms had to stick their noses on BR.

 

[CConn]

I'm sure I've already said it somewhere in this thread, but B89.

Nothing can top that movie for me in terms of visuals, and the entire world that they created for Batman. It was just infinitely perfect in my mind.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

I'm sure I've already said it somewhere in this thread, but B89.

Nothing can top that movie for me in terms of visuals, and the entire world that they created for Batman. It was just infinitely perfect in my mind.

EXACTLY!

 

[uniqueweasel]

Batman 1989. It was amazing to me when I first saw it. Batman Returns is brilliant, but i've always felt the ending was a bit of a let down.

 

[munchie64]

I honestly don't know why someone could pick Returns. I'm sure someone will come up with a fine reason, but as of right now I honestly have know idea why the two films are so close.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I like Batman Returns more because it's different than the average superhero movie. It's sexually driven, has a bleek ending, the main three characters are all sad, and there isn't any traditional heroic moment in the movie. I've realized that unlike Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and Batman, Batman doesn't actually come off as a real hero. He's more like a man who's getting closer to the deep end. There's something really off putting about how he torches the fire breather. The question as to whether or not he killed him is irrelevant. The fact is he lights the man's entire body on fire and doesn't have a reaction to it.

 

[CConn]

I will say this, I watched Returns really in depth a couple of times over the past week, and it is a MUCH better movie than I ever realized.

There's so much subtle psychological, moral, and social commentary laced throughout the entire film. Everything Catwoman or Penguin does or says can be analyzed in about 10 different ways; each way revealing a new motive and meaning behind the character's intent and purpose.

On top of that, the plot is actually rather intricate even it may not seem so at first glance; you have Penguin's story of pain and psychotic revenge, you have Catwoman's insanity and sexuality, you have Batman's silent inner struggle over the emotional reprocussions of killing the Joker, and most brilliantly, you have Max Shreck's story; the "normal" person in the movie, Max is probably the most twisted and evil of any of the characters; constantly manipulating everyone in sight to further his own selfish goals.

While as I said about, B89 is the seminal Batman movie to me, I'd call Batman Returns possibly the most intriguing and intricate of any Batman film - even more than Nolan's uber-psychological films.

 

[El Payaso]

I will say this, I watched Returns really in depth a couple of times over the past week, and it is a MUCH better movie than I ever realized.

There's so much subtle psychological, moral, and social commentary laced throughout the entire film. Everything Catwoman or Penguin does or says can be analyzed in about 10 different ways; each way revealing a new motive and meaning behind the character's intent and purpose.

On top of that, the plot is actually rather intricate even it may not seem so at first glance; you have Penguin's story of pain and psychotic revenge, you have Catwoman's insanity and sexuality, you have Batman's silent inner struggle over the emotional reprocussions of killing the Joker, and most brilliantly, you have Max Shreck's story; the "normal" person in the movie, Max is probably the most twisted and evil of any of the characters; constantly manipulating everyone in sight to further his own selfish goals.

While as I said about, B89 is the seminal Batman movie to me, I'd call Batman Returns possibly the most intriguing and intricate of any Batman film - even more than Nolan's uber-psychological films.

I remember I saw this movie with a friend back in 92 and we had a great laugh at how evil Max actually was.

You know that Penguin is evil. But, after all what Penguin and max did to make Penguin a decent character so Gothamites could vote for him, when Penguin's speech is ruined and everyone turns against him, dear old Oswald starts screaming like a demon. All his plans, all his expectations, all his revenge... lost. Max? He just shrugs and move on. That's the way of the politician. He doesn't even care for his own evil plans enough to suffer.

 

[munchie64]

I like Batman Returns more because it's different than the average superhero movie. It's sexually driven, has a bleek ending, the main three characters are all sad, and there isn't any traditional heroic moment in the movie. I've realized that unlike Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and Batman, Batman doesn't actually come off as a real hero. He's more like a man who's getting closer to the deep end. There's something really off putting about how he torches the fire breather. The question as to whether or not he killed him is irrelevant. The fact is he lights the man's entire body on fire and doesn't have a reaction to it.

Damn good point.

I will say this, I watched Returns really in depth a couple of times over the past week, and it is a MUCH better movie than I ever realized.

There's so much subtle psychological, moral, and social commentary laced throughout the entire film. Everything Catwoman or Penguin does or says can be analyzed in about 10 different ways; each way revealing a new motive and meaning behind the character's intent and purpose.

On top of that, the plot is actually rather intricate even it may not seem so at first glance; you have Penguin's story of pain and psychotic revenge, you have Catwoman's insanity and sexuality, you have Batman's silent inner struggle over the emotional reprocussions of killing the Joker, and most brilliantly, you have Max Shreck's story; the "normal" person in the movie, Max is probably the most twisted and evil of any of the characters; constantly manipulating everyone in sight to further his own selfish goals.

While as I said about, B89 is the seminal Batman movie to me, I'd call Batman Returns possibly the most intriguing and intricate of any Batman film - even more than Nolan's uber-psychological films.

Hmmm, I'm gonna have to watch it again. It's been a while.

 

[CConn]

I remember I saw this movie with a friend back in 92 and we had a great laugh at how evil Max actually was.

You know that Penguin is evil. But, after all what Penguin and max did to make Penguin a decent character so Gothamites could vote for him, when Penguin's speech is ruined and everyone turns against him, dear old Oswald starts screaming like a demon. All his plans, all his expectations, all his revenge... lost. Max? He just shrugs and move on. That's the way of the politician. He doesn't even care for his own evil plans enough to suffer.

I think it's more than that.

Penguin may have been evil. But he was also someone who was totally deprived anything resembling a sane upbringing. If you pay close attention, all of his behavior and dialogue is almost that of a rather demented teenage boy. He gives no thought to controlling his base desires and instincts. That's why he does such evil things; any logical or sane concept of morality is overcome by his animalistic instincts. Now, whether he was inherently evil, or just raised that way, is the question. Personally, I think it makes much more sense that it was from his upbringing that he never learned how to properly function as a human being. But at the same time, that whole cat-killing thing at the beginning seems to hint that his evil nature was there from the onset of his life.

Max, on the other hand, is pretty much as evil as you can be. He's a sociopath, really. He did have a normal upbringing, is totally capable of handling himself within a society, and yet shows absolutely no remorse for the horrible things he does to people. He almost exhibits the traits of a serial killer.

It also seems to continue a point that Burton made in Edward Scissorhands; that it's normal people who are the real freaks and monsters in the world. Pretty cool.

 

[kewlmatto]

Batman Returns for me. The style is more consistently realised. '89 is great, but it feels like it's holding back a little at times (and the Prince songs are jarring).

Plus, as Blitzkreig Bop mentioned, it's rather unique in the pantheon of superhero films.

I love me some snowy Christmassy comic movies.

 

[Winged Avenger]

I Love Batman 89 and Batman Returns 100% Equally. But I Would have to go with Batman 89.

 

[Papa G]

I used to prefer '89, but now I would say BR. '89 doesn't seem all that special now that there's TDK to compare it to, but BR(while flawed) is still a dark and interesting movie which is visually and thematically more interesting IMO. I also like that Batman is seems a little older and possibly burned out, which is what I want to see in TDKR.

 

[regwec]

The Axis Chemicals sequence in B89 is my favorite from any Batman movie to date. The way it builds atmosphere and tension, largely by wedding the rising score to the rising architecture, is awesome.

BR is lots of fun, but I find its denouement to be a bit of a damp squib.

Both great films, but if I had to throw one of the DVD's away, it would probably be BR's.

 

[Frodo]

Its B89 for me all the way. It was the film that introduced me to Batman, and it seemed to hit most of the right notes. BR falls short for me, though I think Burton did point to the idea that the Penguin character needed some retooling beyond what had been done to the character up to that point. While I don't like Burton version of the character, I can understand why he felt the need to give the character some Pathos as it were.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

I dunno if I've commented here but Batman 89. I just like the feel of it over Returns. 89 is.. grittier I guess, in both look and feel, meaner, less jokey, and not so overtly Burton with the dark fantasy.

 

[BH/HHH]

I rewatched these recently and I really enjoyed Batman but Returns I really noticed how awful the dialogue is.

 

[Brother Jack]

A lot of the dialogue in Returns is very tongue-in-cheek. There are a lot of puns. But I think it adds to the whimsical absurdity that lies in the film, coupled with the darkness of it. It's like a fairy tale.

 

[BH/HHH]

A lot of the dialogue in Returns is very tongue-in-cheek. There are a lot of puns. But I think it adds to the whimsical absurdity that lies in the film, coupled with the darkness of it. It's like a fairy tale.

Yeah I mean thats what Burton wanted and it worked but if you watch it after watching '89 it seems like a totally different world and its supposed to be a follow up.

On a side note though of all the costumes in any of the Batman films (Inc the Nolan ones) Returns had the best suit

 

[R3Mi]

Batman Returns. Darker, more interesting (not to say the first one wasn't).
For me, Batman Returns is as good as a BATMAN movie can get. Personally I would prefer to rewatch it than to concentrate on the "new" trilogy.