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Riots in Missouri - Part 3

Resisting arrest shouldn't be a capital offense.

The punishment should fit the crime.

Police shouldn't expect to get away with killing someone who's biggest crime was being non-compliant during an arrest.
The punishment DOES fit the crime. Don't resist arrest and have your day in court if you're innocent. Resist arrest and expect to be forcibly detained. Point a gun expect to be shot at.

This is getting stupid ridiculously obvious to anyone who isn't pro criminal.
 
What about not profiling based on "he was black in a hoodie"?

How is resisting arrest for racial profiling wrong? It doesn't matter if I have a criminal record or not. I'm not the man you're looking for and have every right to say no.

You actually don't have a right to say no. If a police officer says, "I need to take you in for questioning", you have a right to not say a word, and to get an attorney, but you have no rights to not be arrested. And you certainly have no rights to run away, or assault an officer, which just makes it look like you are guilty, and/or have something to hide.

I think people aren't actually clear on rights. Rights are not the assumption that you can do whatever you damn well please, with no regards to consequences.

Was the cop ever suspended for using an illegal choke hold? Five or more cops to take down an unarmed guy seems excessive to me. Also, the cop should have the mental capability to know if a civilian needs a goddamn ambulance.

The chokehold wasn't illegal. It was against department policy, but it isn't illegal.

And I don't know what you wanted the police to do. I suppose they should have just stood around and had coffee until Garner needed to take a nap? He swatted at police, was a known, repeat offender, and he very clearly didn't want to cooperate with them. The police have a right to be wary.

So you think resisting arrest is synonymous with attacking the police?

No wonder you think Eric Garner deserved to die.

Resisting arrest and attacking the police are two totally different things.

You could say during the Civil Rights movement many protestors resisted arrest.

According to you, if they were all massacred by the police it would be understandable.

I don't know that the Civil Rights movement had a lot of people resisting arrest. They were arrested, but they were peaceful.

And let's not compare the greatness of the Civil Rights movement, which was done in order to make the world a better place, to cases of people resisting arrest because they were thieves who were getting caught.

Resisting arrest shouldn't be a capital offense.

The punishment should fit the crime.

Police shouldn't expect to get away with killing someone who's biggest crime was being non-compliant during an arrest.

Well, no. The outcome of most cases of people resisting arrest is a charge of resisting arrest. Eric Garner's case is tragic, but he resisted arrest. End of story. If he hadn't tried to hit officers, he would probably still be alive. Michael Brown tried to reach for the officer's gun, and was hitting him.

If you don't want to die during an encounter with police, then keep your hands to yourself, and cooperate with them, even if they're in the wrong. Don't touch them, don't try to run away, don't even think of reaching for their weapon.


Like mentioned before if Mark Wahlberg died at the hands of a cop would you say you don't feel sorry for him because of his criminal past? Its annoying that you all keep bringing up what they did in the past as if they were doing the crime at the time of their deaths. They couldn't even prove Garner was selling cigarettes at the time of his death? He was just standing around, but I'm sure someone here will say "hey well that's loitering which is a crime". None of their past actions are worthy of dying over. These cops need to face consequences for what they did.

If Mark Wahlberg died at the hands of an officer, and he was in the process of resisting arrest, or was hitting an officer, or if he pulled a weapon, or if he even acted like he was pulling a weapon, I wouldn't care.

This has nothing to do with skin color, wealth, or fame (which is what I think you're implying here). If he was being dumb, then I wouldn't have a single problem with the use of force that ended with his life being over.

And besides that, I don't think that anyone here is saying that Eric Garner or Michael Brown 'deserved' to die because of their criminal past, no matter how recent it had been. What everyone is saying is that if you resist arrest, and you force the officers to have to either defend themselves, or think that they have to defend themselves, then...no sympathy.

If the video had shown Mr. Garner being attacked randomly by officers, for no apparent reason, I would have been angry. If Mr. Garner had been cooperative with the police, and the officers still used force on him, I would have been angry.

I'm sad that he died. And I'm angry that there weren't ANY charges filed, because I feel that at the very least, manslaughter should have been brought against the officer, because I do think the force on the ground (not necessarily the chokehold itself) was excessive and unreasonable.

But I'm not going to claim that Mr. Garner was an innocent man who was minding his own business when the officers attempted to arrest him. It's not true. It's not reasonable to claim that officers should not be allowed to use force when someone begins to act in an unpredictable fashion. It's just not.

Now, if we want to discuss an actual case of improper police violence, let's talk about Tamir Rice, and his death. I will be more than angry if charges are not brought against that officer. They didn't give the child a chance to put down the 'gun'. The officer who shot him didn't do anything right in that case. And it also does call into question background checks on police officers. That officer should never have been allowed to be on the police force.
 
The punishment DOES fit the crime. Don't resist arrest and have your day in court if you're innocent. Resist arrest and expect to be forcibly detained. Point a gun expect to be shot at.

This is getting stupid ridiculously obvious to anyone who isn't pro criminal.

Saying we're pro-criminal is like saying you're pro-fascism.

Wouldn't fascist be comfortable with a police force killing anyone who resist arrest?

The cops have reason to use lethal force when someone's life is in danger, not simply because someone is non-compliant!

WTH? Then you have the nerve to act like we're being unreasonable!

Is this bizzaro world or something???
 
I don't know that the Civil Rights movement had a lot of people resisting arrest. They were arrested, but they were peaceful.

And let's not compare the greatness of the Civil Rights movement, which was done in order to make the world a better place, to cases of people resisting arrest because they were thieves who were getting caught.

Here's the thing about the great civil rights movement.

Back then, not everyone thought the protesters were great. Many thought they were subversive trouble makers, worse than anyone selling ciggs on the street corner.

Of course resisting arrest was part of the civil rights movement. You can see pictures of people being dragged by the police because they were using civil disobedience.

If it wrong to kill them for resisting arrest then it doesn't magically become right to kill Eric Garner for an alleged petty offense.

Either resisting arrest is a capital offense or it isn't. You don't get to pick and choose when the police can kill for non-compliance.
Well, no. The outcome of most cases of people resisting arrest is a charge of resisting arrest. Eric Garner's case is tragic, but he resisted arrest. End of story. If he hadn't tried to hit officers, he would probably still be alive. Michael Brown tried to reach for the officer's gun, and was hitting him.

If you don't want to die during an encounter with police, then keep your hands to yourself, and cooperate with them, even if they're in the wrong. Don't touch them, don't try to run away, don't even think of reaching for their weapon.

Okay you can say what you want about Michael Brown, there's no video evidence. But I no way did Eric Garner attack or run away from the police.

All he did was put his hands in the air telling the a cop he was tired of harassment and you're going to sit there and tell me he deserved to get strangled to death while crying out that he couldn't breathe ELEVEN times???

Ridiculous.

No one is saying that resisting arrest and selling untaxed cigarettes should'nt be crimes but they in no way, shape or form warrant lethal force. You aren't attacking the cop or innocent people with a weapon, you're just being non-compliant.

The fact that people defend the cop who killed Eric Garner for being non-compliant after watching the entire incident on video is absolutely troubling.

It reminds me of when white people in my high school defended the police diring the Rodney King beating.

Some people will defend the police in any scenario and I don't consider that a healthy habit for a free society.
 
The punishment DOES fit the crime. Don't resist arrest and have your day in court if you're innocent. Resist arrest and expect to be forcibly detained. Point a gun expect to be shot at.

This is getting stupid ridiculously obvious to anyone who isn't pro criminal.
:up:
 
Resisting arrest shouldn't be a capital offense.

The punishment should fit the crime.

Police shouldn't expect to get away with killing someone who's biggest crime was being non-compliant during an arrest.

And I hate the fact that a judge could have you arrested for talking back to them, but what can we do about it? Our forefathers put these laws on the books, and for now, we shouldn't resist arrest and we shouldn't talk back to judges until someone changes it, or better yet, get your lawyer to deal with the scum.
 
I don't know what any person from any race expects when they give an attitude and in some cases attack or even point a gun at the cop. If a white person resisted, they would (and have) been dealt with similarly. The media is making it into some "new epidemic" of white cops shooting black men, when the numbers don't support that idea. I saw this on a blog through google search. If these fbi stats are correct: 2013 Justified police homicides 326 whites were killed and 123 blacks were killed. Further the stats reveal 73.5% of those killed by black police are in fact black. In 2013 black men murdered 5,380 people, the same year whites murdered 4,396. Black men only represent 6% of the population. To say there is no issue with violence and young black men (inner city mostly of course) is trying to skate away from the problem on a rather slushy pond.
 
I don't know what any person from any race expects when they give an attitude and in some cases attack or even point a gun at the cop. If a white person resisted, they would (and have) been dealt with similarly. The media is making it into some "new epidemic" of white cops shooting black men, when the numbers don't support that idea. I saw this on a blog through google search. If these fbi stats are correct: 2013 Justified police homicides 326 whites were killed and 123 blacks were killed. Further the stats reveal 73.5% of those killed by black police are in fact black. In 2013 black men murdered 5,380 people, the same year whites murdered 4,396. Black men only represent 6% of the population. To say there is no issue with violence and young black men (inner city mostly of course) is trying to skate away from the problem on a rather slushy pond.

And you're just as bad as the sections of the media who inflame the situation when you use choice words like "epidemic". There is a problem. We have a problem. It has been building up to this boiling point.

Both sides are guilty of talking over each other and resorting to high-handed rhetoric. We need to rally around the Tamir Rice and Eric Garner cases and have a real dialogue about it. We also need to stop creating soapboxes where there's nothing to stand on, like jumping on the Antonio Martin story and running with the headline before the facts are out.

We need to acknowledge the gross injustice, the documented police brutality, the institutional racism. We also need to seek to understand police procedure, and the logistics and real challenges presented to making the changes we want to see.

We need to challenge the flawed system, not the good men and women of the force. Those protesting have moral legitimacy behind them. Don't lose it.
 
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And I hate the fact that a judge could have you arrested for talking back to them, but what can we do about it? Our forefathers put these laws on the books, and for now, we shouldn't resist arrest and we shouldn't talk back to judges until someone changes it, or better yet, get your lawyer to deal with the scum.

Are you saying we should remove contempt of court from legal proceedings? When you say "talk back", do you mean firm protestations which could be construed as overly aggressive or back talk?
 
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I guess he missed where I put epidemic in quotations, referencing the media role in this.
 
The fact that you're even using a word like 'epidemic' to reference the media role in this makes you as irresponsible.
 
But you did. It's clear as day in your post. "New epidemic". You typed that out kiddo.
Hey kiddie, you didn't understand what I meant apparently. I'm saying I put "new epidemic" in quotations to reference the media, who refers to these shootings as an "epidemic" when the stats say otherwise. Please, read the content before jumping on me next time. Thanks kid.
 
The fact that you're even using a word like 'epidemic' to reference the media role in this makes you as irresponsible.
Not at all. The media is now covering every single shooting on a national news level, if and only if it involves a white cop and a black man. This is not something that is out of control and uncovered over the last year or two. However, the media is trying to capitalize on it, as if it this big "epidemic"
 
Yeah anyone who is non-compliant with the police deserves to be killed.

Thumbs way up, bro! :whatever:

I think it is a crass way of saying that he has no sympathy for people who're non-compliant with the police. In which case I agree, but I wouldn't say that someone deserves to be killed unless they were of course threatening the officer's life. Then it becomes more a matter of self-defense, which could easily be prove or disproven with the use of body cams.
 
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Yeah anyone who is non-compliant with the police deserves to be killed.

Thumbs way up, bro! :whatever:
No one has said that at all bro!:whatever:

Eric Garner died while being detained for resisting arrest. The officer did not kill him on purpose. None of these officers went out that day saying, "I can't wait to kill someone today!"

Don't resist arrest and put yourself in these positions. Bad things can happen. It really is that simple.
 
No one has said that at all bro!:whatever:

Eric Garner died while being detained for resisting arrest. The officer did not kill him on purpose. None of these officers went out that day saying, "I can't wait to kill someone today!"

Don't resist arrest and put yourself in these positions. Bad things can happen. It really is that simple.

THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE FACT THAT THE COPS KILLED PEOPLE AND ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT. This is the point you all are missing or refusing to acknowledge. None of these crimes are punishable by death but you all are acting like they are.
 
THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE FACT THAT THE COPS KILLED PEOPLE AND ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT. This is the point you all are missing or refusing to acknowledge. None of these crimes are punishable by death but you all are acting like they are.
Nope. No one is acting like they are at all. A judge didn't rule these people to die, and the officers aren't executing these people for fun. They are dying when they resist arrest or threaten/attack a cop.

It's basically an act of self defense. When you are placed under arrest and you choose to resist, the officers can't just say, "oh, ok sorry." and then walk away. If you have to make the officer do his job and have to be wrestled to the ground because you refused to go willingly, it's your fault what happens after that.
 
No one has said that at all bro!:whatever:

Eric Garner died while being detained for resisting arrest. The officer did not kill him on purpose. None of these officers went out that day saying, "I can't wait to kill someone today!"

Don't resist arrest and put yourself in these positions. Bad things can happen. It really is that simple.

No Eric Garner was killed for being non-compliant.

If you're non-compliant with the police, bad things happen. Namely a resisting arrest charge after which you pay a couple hundred in bail and return to your kids and wife.

Non-compliance =/= death sentence

They're the police, not a Mexican cartel.

The cops should be able to use the appropriate force or they should be held accountable.

Using a forbidden chokehold while a suspect screams he can't breath ELEVEN times is an example of when a cop needs to be held accountable for poor judgement.

The law applies to police who screw up during duty. It's not open season on non-compliant suspects. This isn't a police state where police don't need to consider the consequences of being excessive.
 
Nope. No one is acting like they are at all. A judge didn't rule these people to die, and the officers aren't executing these people for fun. They are dying when they resist arrest or threaten/attack a cop.

It's basically an act of self defense. When you are placed under arrest and you choose to resist, the officers can't just say, "oh, ok sorry." and then walk away. If you have to make the officer do his job and have to be wrestled to the ground because you refused to go willingly, it's your fault what happens after that.
This is very true, and in the case of Garner (a big man) they chose not to use a weapon on his resistance, and instead employed a choke hold to detain and get cuffs on him. Had he been compliant, that wouldn't have happened. I've said it before, any cases of a black man or any man who complied and did not resist arrest, would get my total support in protest of violence towards them. So far the big national cases, have not been someone innocent that complied. It has been criminals, resisting arrest/attacking/even in recent case pointing a gun at the cop.
 
THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE FACT THAT THE COPS KILLED PEOPLE AND ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT. This is the point you all are missing or refusing to acknowledge. None of these crimes are punishable by death but you all are acting like they are.

You fail to take into the account the individual circumstances, (using a vague designation like "these crimes" makes it easier, I suppose) and are using the same sort of logic employed by bigots the world over.
 
No Eric Garner was killed for being non-compliant.

If you're non-compliant with the police, bad things happen. Namely a resisting arrest charge after which you pay a couple hundred in bail and return to your kids and wife.
So how do you get this resisting arrest charge for being non compliant if they don't arrest you?

Non-compliance =/= death sentence
Again, no one has said that it is. If Garner hadn't been asthmatic and morbidly obese he'd probably still be alive. That, or you know, if he would have just let them place him under arrest and have his day in court or pay his fine.

They're the police, not a Mexican cartel.

The cops should be able to use the appropriate force or they should be held accountable.

Using a forbidden chokehold while a suspect screams he can't breath ELEVEN times is an example of when a cop needs to be held accountable for poor judgement.
And suspects, especially those who are resisting, will say and do anything to get away. It happens all the time. Also, while screaming "I can't breathe" and resisting implies that you can in fact breathe. If you can't breathe you can't speak and you certainly shouldn't keep resisting.

The law applies to police who screw up during duty. It's not open season on non-compliant suspects. This isn't a police state where police don't need to consider the consequences of being excessive.
There are and they do, we just don't ever hear about those cases in the media.
 
Nope. No one is acting like they are at all. A judge didn't rule these people to die, and the officers aren't executing these people for fun. They are dying when they resist arrest or threaten/attack a cop.

It's basically an act of self defense. When you are placed under arrest and you choose to resist, the officers can't just say, "oh, ok sorry." and then walk away. If you have to make the officer do his job and have to be wrestled to the ground because you refused to go willingly, it's your fault what happens after that.

Who's responsible when the cop uses a choke hold that isn't allowed?

Who's responsible when the suspect says he can't breath eleven times???

Just because someone is non-complaint doesn't mean the cops can handle the situation any way they want?

It doesn't magically become a no holds barred death match. The police still need to apprehend a non-compliant suspect responsibly.

You can't just do a death choke because someone said "no, I don't think I should be arrested".

If 5 cops can't put cuffs on a non-compliant person without using forbidden choke holds and killing him then they shouldn't be cops. End of story.
 
Who's responsible when the cop uses a choke hold that isn't allowed?

Who's responsible when the suspect says he can't breath eleven times???

Just because someone is non-complaint doesn't mean the cops can handle the situation any way they want?

It doesn't magically become a no holds barred death match. The police still need to apprehend a non-compliant suspect responsibly.

You can't just do a death choke because someone said "no, I don't think I should be arrested".

If 5 cops can't put cuffs on a non-compliant person without using forbidden choke holds and killing him then they shouldn't be cops. End of story.

I don't think that was a chokehold. Otherwise, you're right. They should have simply used their tasers, then cuffed him.
 

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