Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Discussion in 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' started by R_Hythlodeus, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. ctsketch

    ctsketch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,953
    Likes Received:
    0
    SOMEONE has to be leading WS and his crew
     
    #201
  2. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    0
    there is definitely a villain and they're being partially misleading with the black and white thing.
     
    #202
  3. Ms. Marvel

    Ms. Marvel Screwed up Avenger

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    0
    How?

    Might not be a villain. I'm just speculating anyway.
     
    #203
  4. ctsketch

    ctsketch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,953
    Likes Received:
    0
    ehhh then who is it?
     
    #204
  5. Ms. Marvel

    Ms. Marvel Screwed up Avenger

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm just differentiating between a villain and an antagonist (even if you don't see a difference). Because people are speculating that Robert Redford is somebody from the comics like RS or Lukin or Zemo. I suggested that maybe he's just Aleksander Pierce and he uses his power for morally ambiguous purposes (which may involve TWS). He doesn't necessarily have to be a supervillain.
     
    #205
  6. ctsketch

    ctsketch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,953
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wasn't making that distinction, but with that distinction in mind I agree that it's a possibility..

    He could create TWS to meet some end he will try and justify
     
    #206
  7. Destructus86

    Destructus86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    5,684
    Likes Received:
    0
    He's the red skull!!

    ;)
     
    #207
  8. Farren

    Farren Side Kicker

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    1
    IA that Redford could be an antagonist as opposed to a villain.

    But I also think there is going to be a villain, RR or not. Not having a tangible villain is way too risky, especially for a superhero movie. I think Marvel will play this safe and give us someone concrete to root against, although hopefully we'll get some twists along the way.
     
    #208
  9. Ms. Marvel

    Ms. Marvel Screwed up Avenger

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    0
    So? People always complain that Marvel plays it too safe. Plus I'm afraid the movie may be too bloated.
     
    #209
  10. Farren

    Farren Side Kicker

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well, that's my point. They do play it safe. It's served them well so far. I don't think they're going to change that.
     
    #210
  11. Ms. Marvel

    Ms. Marvel Screwed up Avenger

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    0
    IM3 didn't, and it didn't affect the box office. :yay:
     
    #211
  12. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    12,044
    Likes Received:
    0

    For that to work, Pierce would've had to have been involved in the recovery of Bucky's body in 1945.

    Whoever "made" Winter Soldier made him, or at least started making him, immediately after his apparent death in the train attack. Unlike Cap, Bucky didn't have the luxury of laying around like a Capsicle waiting for somebody to thaw him out.

    And again, that points to the most likely suspect(s) being HYDRA, since Bucky went down behind enemy lines in HYDRA territory. Plus, they were the ones who had been experimenting on him a few years prior.

    Winter Soldier is HYDRA's toy.
     
    #212
  13. Farren

    Farren Side Kicker

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    1
    A fair point. I don't discount the possibility of a less tangible villain. I just think it's a lot less likely. On that point we may just have to agree to disagree.
    Much as I would like to see a Russian angle, these are very good points.
     
    #213
  14. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    12,044
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, even with HYDRA pulling Bucky's strings, I still wouldn't rule out a Soviet connection. After WWII, any remnants of HYDRA would've needed a new fascist nation in which to flourish, and Stalin/Khruschev's Russia seems a suitable place for them to regroup. Plus, WS still has that red star on his arm. :)
     
    #214
  15. Farren

    Farren Side Kicker

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    1
    I've been wondering that too. HYDRA may have done the initial work, but a lot can happen in 60+ years of political upheaval. I wonder if it might have fragmented and/or shifted it's alliances.

    Plus, even in the comics, Luskin was selling off the goodies in his Soviet cache that he inherited (IIRC Red Skull wanted to buy WS but Lukin's pricetag was too high), so I think it's possible WS has been passed around.
     
    #215
  16. HUMANIMAL

    HUMANIMAL ...

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    4,309
    Likes Received:
    0
    one answer only....arnim zola
     
    #216
  17. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,169
    Likes Received:
    30
    I kind of hope that Redford's character isn't the Red Skull in some format since I want Steve to have other major villains to contend with that isn't the Red skull.
     
    #217
  18. Farren

    Farren Side Kicker

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    1
    Movie!Zola doesn't strike me as ambitious enough to be masterminding anything.
     
    #218
  19. xeno000

    xeno000 IRON MAN WAS RIGHT!

    Joined:
    May 16, 2011
    Messages:
    8,435
    Likes Received:
    12
    Consider this about Zola: Not only was he the person conducting experiments on Bucky in that Hydra base, he was also on the train when Bucky fell so he knew exactly where to find the soldier. We have to assume that Zola somehow either escaped Allied custody after the war or was released and then hooked up with fragments of HYDRA and recovered Bucky. Perhaps Zola was able to communicate with his HYDRA contacts even while he was in custody and had Bucky hidden away until he could get out. Then he could have taken control of the Winter Soldier and done whatever he wanted with him.

    As far as Pierce is concerned, I'm willing to bet that he's either a HYDRA commander or Soviet agent who infiltrated SHIELD years ago, possibly by killing the real Pierce and taking his place.
     
    #219
  20. ctsketch

    ctsketch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,953
    Likes Received:
    0
    Killian was most certainly a tangible villain. He wasn't some misunderstood guy.
     
    #220
  21. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    12,044
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bingo! We have a winner.
     
    #221
  22. Ms. Marvel

    Ms. Marvel Screwed up Avenger

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was talking about "playing it safe" - IM3 did not play it safe.
     
    #222
  23. divan

    divan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2013
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    3
    Zola didn't look like someone who takes the initiative. If the Winter Soldier is indeed his work, it's probably because someone else (either HYDRA remnants or the Soviets) ordered him to do it.
     
    #223
  24. ctsketch

    ctsketch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,953
    Likes Received:
    0

    gotcha
     
    #224
  25. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    12,044
    Likes Received:
    0
    Granted, WWII-era Zola looked like just a flunky for Red Skull. But a lot happens to him by the end of that movie, and undoubtedly, a lot happens to him in the years leading up to present day. He's probably got motivation now to change.

    The way I look at it is that Arnim Zola was a mad genius before WWII, and Red Skull bullied him into being his *****. Zola dutifully mass-produced a whole arsenal of extremely advanced weaponry for him until his capture by the SSR. Now that Skull is gone, and assuming Zola escapes/defects or whatever from the US, he's now free to be the mad scientist he always wanted to be.
     
    #225

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"