The Dark Knight Rises Roven: Joker Could Return

[ND Irish]

Wouldn't proving Batman's innocence in the beginning make the ending of TDK fell pointless?

you misread that. he means the mob slayings took place in the beginning of the film. not that batman would be redeemed in the intro of the film.

 

[robzass]

Lets be realistic. Nolan's "franchise" has probably one more film at the most (if even that). Then were probably going to see recasting across the board for most likely every character and a new director at the helm. So seeing a new Joker will happen sooner than you think.

 

[CJ]

I've said this before, and i'll say it again: You need to recast The Joker.

I remember reading an article while TDK was still in production about how Nolan didn't like the idea of Joker dying in the '89 film, becuase he thought the character had a lot of potential for sequels. With the Joker not dying at the end of TDK, I am led to suspect that Nolan had Joker in mind for the 3rd one. Heath's death threw a wrench in the plans for TDK's sequel.

It's sad that Heath died, but Nolan shouldn't sacrifice the storyline he had in mind all becuase of the actor's loss. Nolan could have had a truly amazing final act for the Begins series in mind and it would be a shame to have it all go to waste becuase of Mr Ledger's unfortunate death.

I know nobody will be able to top Heath, but I think it's very possible that some actor will be able to do a decent job with the role.

 

[kid dropper]

Wouldn't proving Batman's innocence in the beginning make the ending of TDK fell pointless?

Not really, because its inevitable his name will be cleared, and most likely not of his own doing. I mean its a powerful plot device, but what kind of place is that to leave Batman? a wanted murder suspect. It will be resolved, and it wont render his choice pointless. The weight of the fact that he chose to take the blame in the first place will still always be felt, simply because we saw it happen at the end of the Dark Knight and know the lengths he's willing to go to.

 

[CJ]

I dont know why people expect Batman's name to be cleared. It's very possible that Nolan may take Batman in an entirely different direction than the comics. We've had the batsignal, we've had Batman hailed as a hero, Nolan living up to the source material of the comics, but now that that's done, Nolan may want to go a different route and show Batman as a thankless hero who is always on the run.

I would like Batman's name cleared, but this is Nolan's movies. He might want to take Batman in another direction.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Wouldn't proving Batman's innocence in the beginning make the ending of TDK fell pointless?

^good point.

You can't really "redeem" Batman without making his sacrifice in TDK for nothing

No, no, no. Not the murders from TDK. The murders at the abbatoir at the start of my story. You see, it would of been Deathstroke all along, who was brought in by Nashton. Then when Nashton is caught we find that out, and Batman is proved innocent of them particular murders. Batman doesn't get redeemed untill right at the end when Joker spills the beans about Harvey.

 

[Ledlunar]

I suspect what Nolan could do is to at least acknowledge Joker's existence by including a scene, say, in Arkaham where perhaps someone passes by the cell where Joker sits in the shadows, chuckling to himself, he leans forward a little when he hears someone approach his cell, just enough to see the madness in his still made up eyes, and some one comments something like "That's all he does all day, sits there in the dark,laughing." Or something like that. No recasting per se, but at least Joker makes an appearance, (sort of) and the other characters can at least discuss him and his effect on everyone. Nolan can't just ignore Joker completely, his impact In TDK was enough that it has to carry over to the third movie in some degree.

hmmm too bad actors like to treat there roles as art then..... cause who would want to play the role of the joker and do a impression whilst sitting in the dark..... no real actor more like a fan boy on youtube..... either recast and be a descent part of the script or leave him out all together..... no snickering in a dark cell cameo ....

sounds like something from "are you afraid of the dark"

 

[Ledlunar]

I've said this before, and i'll say it again: You need to recast The Joker.

I remember reading an article while TDK was still in production about how Nolan didn't like the idea of Joker dying in the '89 film, becuase he thought the character had a lot of potential for sequels. With the Joker not dying at the end of TDK, I am led to suspect that Nolan had Joker in mind for the 3rd one. Heath's death threw a wrench in the plans for TDK's sequel.

It's sad that Heath died, but Nolan shouldn't sacrifice the storyline he had in mind all becuase of the actor's loss. Nolan could have had a truly amazing final act for the Begins series in mind and it would be a shame to have it all go to waste becuase of Mr Ledger's unfortunate death.

I know nobody will be able to top Heath, but I think it's very possible that some actor will be able to do a decent job with the role.

Yeah I really agree with this. Heath Ledger seemed like a great guy, and had alot of fun with this role... actually I think he said the most fun he ever had and thinks he ever will have... why would he want a character he played to die with him just cause he did it so well?.... he wouldn't , he's an actor its his art ... he was great, he knew some of his fellow actors are great... someone could fill his shoes... it tragic but its more tragic to have him written out if he was intended and I think Nolan will still include him if it was his original intention... It would be hard to top TDK without The Joker obviously and he said there's no point in making a sequel if its less than the one prior to it....

let me say if you were painting a series of pictures, you were really blossoming at it... then you died... would you rather your notes and style for the remainder be covered in dust and forgotten as the missing piece? or have another artist who is also amazing take over, its not ripping off.. its paying homage to something fantastic and magical... there's a big difference and its done out of respect for the individual,

 

[AceOfKnaves]

Lets be realistic. Nolan's "franchise" has probably one more film at the most (if even that). Then were probably going to see recasting across the board for most likely every character and a new director at the helm. So seeing a new Joker will happen sooner than you think.

To be fair though, the same was said about Spider-Man before their third film, and now Sam Raimi and his lead actors are signed on for movies 4 and 5. I guess you can never really tell.

 

[Bathead]

hmmm too bad actors like to treat there roles as art then..... cause who would want to play the role of the joker and do a impression whilst sitting in the dark..... no real actor more like a fan boy on youtube..... either recast and be a descent part of the script or leave him out all together..... no snickering in a dark cell cameo ....

sounds like something from "are you afraid of the dark"

Well, I make no claims to being any kind of writer. I'm just using that as a (poorly written, admittedly) example of the kind of acknowledgment of the Joker needs to have in the third movie, not necessarily a full blown role. They need to at the very least talk about him and discuss his impact on Gotham.
No need for any actor to do any kind of imitation of Ledger at all, and I'm sure the Nolans could come up with something more compelling than my little scenario, without disrespecting Ledger's performance, and without disrespecting any actor they might cast in the role.

 

[raynorWilm]

I think for this next film at least, recasting should not be an option. Obviously, the Joker will come back again in our lifetime, but for this next film no recasting should be done. Clearly I think the Joker should be put into the plot for the film, but to show him and for there to be any significant interaction with him I think would be distracting..

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Well, I make no claims to being any kind of writer. I'm just using that as a (poorly written, admittedly) example of the kind of acknowledgment of the Joker needs to have in the third movie, not necessarily a full blown role. They need to at the very least talk about him and discuss his impact on Gotham.
No need for any actor to do any kind of imitation of Ledger at all, and I'm sure the Nolans could come up with something more compelling than my little scenario, without disrespecting Ledger's performance, and without disrespecting any actor they might cast in the role.

If there was a re-cast the actor wouldn't have to "imitate" Heath anyway. Joker isn't exactly the same in every comic is he? If someone is re-cast they should do what Heath did, extensively study the Joker, read a load of comics. Bring something personal and fresh to the role, but still maintain the little tics and twitches of Heaths Joker.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Hey Ace, you know i totally disagree with you on a Joker recast, but i like your story a lot. Were Heath still around, i would line up behind it (or something like it, maybe with a few less plot twists-TDK had a few too many already)

Have you considered just swapping Deathstroke for Catwoman? She could be a pawn of the Riddler with fighting skills similar to Batman's. But instead of being killed by Riddler Batman could save her when Riddler double-crosses her or something, turning her good.

Yea that's a pretty good idea.

But my use of Deathstroke wasn't just to be a pawn of Riddler, he was to make the the mob killings look like it was Batman who commited them. I can't imagen Catwoman being a cold blooded murder. And the fight scene I imagened in the church would be epic, ninja against ninja, bone crunching.

 

[Shiaruki]

I also hate to inform you but recasting will happen one day folks even if its not in the next film.

No shizzle, the 80's-90's films used 3 different actors for Batman/Wayne. Do you really think recasting bothers the people behind films?

 

[GregComicFan]

Wouldn't a simple Joker laugh be enough?????

I was thinking about this earlier.... what if Batman was walking through Arkham in Batman 3 and he passes Joker's cell and we just hear Heath Ledger's laughter arise from the cell? Wouldn't that be enough? Why do we need the Joker to return AT ALL? I feel his story was complete. Move on to other characters.....

 

[Shiaruki]

Wouldn't a simple Joker laugh be enough?????

I was thinking about this earlier.... what if Batman was walking through Arkham in Batman 3 and he passes Joker's cell and we just hear Heath Ledger's laughter arise from the cell? Wouldn't that be enough? Why do we need the Joker to return AT ALL? I feel his story was complete. Move on to other characters.....

Yeah but in a few years time, when Nolan's running low on dosh, either he or some other company/director would seize that laugh as an opportunity to make a 'Return of the Joker', which would inevitably suck.

Like the idea though.

 

[Anjow1060]

The Joker will be back. Just not to some grand level in this film.

To be honest, let's "share the wealth" that is director Chris Nolan. Let him make the Riddler, catwoman, mr. freeze, black mask, killer croc, penguin, bane, zucco, thorne or whoever the hell else he wants into pure amazing villains as he's already done with Ras, Scarecrow, Zsaz (who was at least in the movie), Falcone, Maroni, Joker, 2 Face.

Then, stick with me here, we can get a new interpretation of those characters when a new director steps in, inevitably, and get another "fresh" take on those characters. Hopefully THAT director will make us go...."Whoa....That's so much more amazing than what Heath did." Etc. And that's not to spit on the amazingness that Ledger performed, but idc what you're doing in life, you have to remember that when you're on top, there's always someone out there that's better.

[/thread or *Headdesk* for Jow]

- Jow

 

[Rasputin911]

I dont know why people expect Batman's name to be cleared. It's very possible that Nolan may take Batman in an entirely different direction than the comics. We've had the batsignal, we've had Batman hailed as a hero, Nolan living up to the source material of the comics, but now that that's done, Nolan may want to go a different route and show Batman as a thankless hero who is always on the run.

I would like Batman's name cleared, but this is Nolan's movies. He might want to take Batman in another direction.

Exactly. He isn't out to win a popularity contest. He obviously felt taking the heat for Harvey was necessary, so why would he change his mind?

 

[smooth3006]

First off it would be hard to find an Actor who would actually want to take the mantle of trying to outdo Ledgers Joker

Second Heath Ledger's Joker was classic and no need to have someone else try

bull and that statement is ridiculous. just because ledger is dead doesn't mean they wont recast.

jeez guys.... "he was not a god" !

 

[margon]

Bare with me, but if IF the Joker was to be recast then I would love to see Benicio Del Toro as the Joker. He's truly a cameleon.

I called Benicio for Joker like a year ago. he'd be insane. you're a good person

 

[Ledlunar]

hmmm one of my friends was telling me when they watched Sin City after TDK where Benicio's head is talking it made him think he could play the joker......

Personally I haven't seen him in to many movies besides sin city and snatch...

I can't judge

there are a lot of great actors.... before TDK I never thought Ledger was that amazing,(he was always good and had fun energy) but I also haven't seen Brokeback which he was acclaimed for..... I thought he was very good in Lords Of Dog Town though... Im sure another actor could do it...

 

[The Batman]

The Joker will be back. Just not to some grand level in this film.

To be honest, let's "share the wealth" that is director Chris Nolan. Let him make the Riddler, catwoman, mr. freeze, black mask, killer croc, penguin, bane, zucco, thorne or whoever the hell else he wants into pure amazing villains as he's already done with Ras, Scarecrow, Zsaz (who was at least in the movie), Falcone, Maroni, Joker, 2 Face.

Then, stick with me here, we can get a new interpretation of those characters when a new director steps in, inevitably, and get another "fresh" take on those characters. Hopefully THAT director will make us go...."Whoa....That's so much more amazing than what Heath did." Etc. And that's not to spit on the amazingness that Ledger performed, but idc what you're doing in life, you have to remember that when you're on top, there's always someone out there that's better.

[/thread or *Headdesk* for Jow]

- Jow

exactly.

nolans joker has been done...there's no reason to see him taking up time again

 

[Hole Shot]

First off it would be hard to find an Actor who would actually want to take the mantle of trying to outdo Ledgers Joker

No it wouldn't, a paycheck is a paycheck, very few actors beyond superstar A-listers would turn down the invite for a career making opportunity and challenge.

 

[Rasputin911]

^until they saw the lynch mob (with me at the front)

 

[Ledlunar]

^until they saw the lynch mob (with me at the front)

^ give me a break.... Im just imagining comic book guy with some speckled ill looking nerds behind him waving home made signs with guts hanging out... haha
< and this guy on your shirt